Guest guest Posted May 7, 2005 Report Share Posted May 7, 2005 Tony OClery wrote: >advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> >wrote: >Namaste,All, > > " When the Self is known, duality is no longer seen. " GP. > >Subject/Object knowledge cannot remain an instant after the cessation >of duality. >For to suppose that it could would entail a new suppression of duality >and so lead to infinite regress, which could mean that duality could >never cease. > It can never cease. peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , Peter Burton <london@w...> wrote: > Tony OClery wrote: > > >advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > >wrote: > >Namaste,All, > > > > " When the Self is known, duality is no longer seen. " GP. > > > >Subject/Object knowledge cannot remain an instant after the cessation > >of duality. > >For to suppose that it could would entail a new suppression of duality > >and so lead to infinite regress, which could mean that duality could > >never cease. > > > It can never cease. > how can it cease if it never was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 8, 2005 Report Share Posted May 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Peter Burton <london@w...> wrote: > > Tony OClery wrote: > > > > >advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > > >wrote: > > >Namaste,All, > > > > > > " When the Self is known, duality is no longer seen. " GP. > > > > > >Subject/Object knowledge cannot remain an instant after the cessation > > >of duality. > > >For to suppose that it could would entail a new suppression of duality > > >and so lead to infinite regress, which could mean that duality could > > >never cease. > > > > > It can never cease. > > > > how can it cease if it never was? Namaste, It is the impression of duality that ceases,for it never happened..........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 NonDualPhil , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: NonDualPhil , " Wim Borsboom " <wim_borsboom> wrote: > Wim wrote: > > > Duality does not have to cease at all... it simply does > > > NOT EXIST. If it seems to exist, it has only the appearance > > > of existence and is only mentally represented as: > > > . a flawed, limited and limiting VIEW of what is, > > > . an abstracting, negating and oppositional INTERPRETATION, > > > . a MISCONCEPTION appearing under the guise of conceptualization, > > > . a MISUNDERSTANDING given the appearance of some kind of valid > > > insight, > > > . a MISAPPRECIATION and DENIAL of `Reality' in all its integral > > > and integrated wholeness. > > > > > > Fighting duality is useless, it is fighting an illusive concept > > > only. Such fighting is no more than a shadow fight, un unneeded > > > skirmish, that - unfortunately - only gets the one who sets out > > > to make it cease, be lost to the illusion that it does exist. > > > > > > Wim > > > Tony wrote: > > Yes even the appearance or illusion didn't happen... > > No Tony, ONLY illusion isn't happening, that's why it's called illusion. > Tying a tag saying, " THIS IS NOT BLACK " to a black suitcase doesn't > make a black suitcase take on a different color. > By the same token, that you associate 'life-as-it-happens' with the > illusive " It's not happening " does not stop life from happening. > > Just a mistaken association Tony... no more. > > Funny isn't it Tony, that this " non happening " puzzle piece that you > picked up somewhere, does not even fit the illusive puzzle that you > imagine life to be?! > > There ain't even a puzzle... life just is!!! > > But you are right insofar that your puzzled life is not happening > except as a fixated figment in your - Tony's - mind. > > Wim > (Maybe the reason that you happen to be here is that it enables the > witnessing of " your seeming disconnect " as it is happening.) Namaste, Life just 'isn't' that is the whole point. 'Is' is 'Being' is a Saguna Concept. I have no disconnect, except that everything is a disconnect...........There is no way the mind can understand or appreciate Nirguna as it is a negative description. This is why you hang on to the Saguna concepts, as you can appreciate these attributes, and use them in your life and discussions..No snake and no rope...ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 9, 2005 Report Share Posted May 9, 2005 NonDualPhil , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: NonDualPhil , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > no rope...ONS..Tony. > > Dear Tony, > > Please assess the description below. If it is assumed that all is > Nirguna Brahman than nothing has happened, nothing changed and nothing > will happen. The apparent diversity and changes in the appearances are > Maya and all concepts and life as we know it is an illusion that is > difficult to see through. > > Lewis > > > " Advaita Vedantists construct Parabrahman, the Absolute, the > non-material sentient existence/awareness that is the one and only all > pervading reality. There is nothing else. The Vedanatist explain the > diversity in the appearances as Maya, ParaBrahman's " will " to become > many, which amount to a cosmic illusion, a dream world, that veils the > Absolute. The Vedantan Absolute was never created, never modified, > unmodifiable, attributeless...Nirguna. So nothing has happened, there > is > no one or no thing; only the Absolute. " Namaste L. The only difference I have with that is that I don't believe that there is even an appearance on the Self. No Veil to pull aside. It is obviously impossible to explain this. I rely on Sages who say it disappears on Moksha or deep sleep or Samadhi etc, So it can never have happened at all.......ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 10, 2005 Report Share Posted May 10, 2005 NonDualPhil , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: NonDualPhil , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > Thank you Tony. > > That would be consistent with Nirguna Brahman. So in this sense, Maya > is is merely a conceptualization employed to handle the apparent > diversity and multiplicy and is as Saguna Brahman. Therefore, being > only Nirguna Brahman there is nothing ever created, nor modified, only > unmodifiable, attributelessness.... Nirguna and thus nothing has > happened, there > is no one or no thing; only the Nirgunan Absolute. > > Would this entail that in daily life there is no illusion? And would it > also entail that the apparent diversity and multiplicity that appears > and it is dealt with on a daily basis lacks only unfettered realization > of Nirguna Brahman, Moksha? And that what is gone through in this > diversity and multiplicity is differential movements toward Moksha, > Mukti. > > Are these equal to your understandings Tony. > > Lewis Namaste, It would seem so but that is also an illusion. It starts out with us thinking we are making things happen, then moves on to things are happening to us, and finally that nothing is happening at all. Even in science it really is an appearance, of quarks and bosons and mesons, travelling forwards and backwards in time, creating this illusion. And what is smaller than them, and smaller than that? How we even perceive it as an illusion or 'life' I don't know. The penny doesn't seem to drop for so many that it isn't there in deep sleep or samadhi. This is because they cannot conceive of 'no-mind', whether it is called life or love or sakti or whatever. There is no beginning but there is and end to it, for it never happened at all..............ONS...Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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