one more time..........

May 11, 2005

It's all a matter of perception and belief. You perceive/believe

that there is a downstream so there is. This is what initially and

ultimately fragments you into this sense of `you' being separated.

This is what causes you to say you are without choice and it's what

makes you think you're a helpless victim of some kind of destiny –

and hence the struggle to name or un-name it. If there is a

downstream then you assume there must be an upstream, or debate that

there is not an upstream. Then there is the endless osbsession with

the debate about the upstream or downstream being illusion. This

debate is merely a distraction that continues to keep you in a

separated sense (while looking very enlightened as though you really

know.) It's the same things all religions do - put something

outside themselves, beyond themselves and beyond their understanding

to comprehend – a distraction to give some god other then themselves

power/control and allow them to `not' take responsibility. But in

non-dualistic crowds the weirdest part is that you you say there is

no god, no other, and no you, and that you are not even god because

there is not one; that it's all a dream and yet remain dreaming

(typing or para-sailing or whatever) all the while still dreaming.

Here is inevitably where you then get chunked back into (swing back

into) the sense of me/helpless victim/choiceless/pre-destined sort

of thing. This is what you think/believe you are, which in turn

becomes your reality (albeit a dream reality). So, many then

believe there is some kind of destiny beyond there control because

they are downstream from " it " all and are merely puppets. And that

it's that kind of thought/belief which spins this idea of exclution

and further fragments you into which you classify as separated.

Aaaah, but the rub is that you " know " you're not separated and then

further debate as to this dream that isn't real so how can you be

separated….well….the debate endlessly goes on and on and on.

I'm saying that YOU are IT All (irregardless or dream or not

dream). Consciousness dreams and that's what IT does - and it also

does not dream and myriad of in between stuff.

As long as many of you continue to perceive from the focal point of

linear time and dileneate into upstream/downstream concepts then you

fragment. You can never separate because YOU are IT. You aren't

separate from what YOU are -- which is consciousness. You only

have the perception that you are separated by focusing on linear

past and future. In this linear perception you suppose there is a

you and this `you' is choiceless/helpless and a victim of some sort

of destiny out of it's hands.

If you drop the linear upstream/downstream concepts and obsession

with the distraction of identifying that this is not real versus

this is real concepts and if you become aware in this present moment

YOU realize that IT is ALL **YOU**. This is what Self Realization

really is. YOU are the choice in THIS moment -- there is NoOne

else. There is ONLY YOU and YOU **are** Consciousness. YOU are not

the helpless/choiceless downstream victim of some upstream concept.

YOU are IT ALL here and now. By lineating your perceptions you get

to freeze frame time, as it were, and take a look at things in what

appears to be a slow motion and moment by moment freeze frame. As

long as you think/believe that you are downstream then you are NOT

perceiving from the present moment, which is not linear, but where

everything is actually happening all at once. It's happening all at

once because there is only ONE YOU. In order for there to be a

sense of something other the perception has to be slowed down as it

is in human experience so that you have a sense of there being

something other than just YOU and something other than Right Now.

Your focus on linear perception is what gives you the sense of

separteness as a victim/choiceless. How can you not be YOU? And in

the cobwebs you know it – hence the on-going search and debate to

discover the answers that you know but somehow can't explain.

You are ALL choice within all other choice (albeit it's a dream)

and that's why YOU can stop it or start it any time. But you

insist you are choiceless and that Krishna said to Arjuna there is

no choice. This was merely a commentary that, yes, *you* Arjuna

have no choice. As I once wrote to Toombaru that you (you) have no

choice. This fragmented perception believes it and so it is.

If/When you recognize that YOU are CONSCIOUSNESS then YOU are THAT

WHICH MAKES THE CHOICES? Who did you think made the choices?

Regarding the story offered on this board of Papaji and the car

driving itself: This is a helpless victim story and is simply an

illustration of papaji who is fragmented and doesn't yet recognize

how this works. When you are not fighting against your

Consciousness you become in this flow state where your kind of like

putting together a rubics cube puzzle. (rubics cube is a 1980's box

puzzle where everything kind of aligns together to form a box).

When you are not fighting against your consciousness you become

aware that there is a spot for this and that. Let me try to explain

it in a with a linear example: You want to go to a city and will

take a bus. You look at the schedule and recognize that bus leaves

at 1:00, 5:00 and 10:00. You pick a time. No sense in getting

there before then because you **KNOW** the bus won't be there

until the set times. Another example: I plan on experiencing

Samantha as human. (I don't care if it's a dream). There's no

point in looking into this 900,000 B.C.E. (before common era)

because humans didn't exist then. No point in looking at it after

100,000 C.E. (common era) because humans don't exist then either.

It's done within the frame that YOU know it all fits in. Within

the rubics cube Papaji would have seen an opening for a car crash at

such and such a time. The fact that the car drove itself means only

that papaji was fragmented and thinking in terms of linear time. He

had no sense that he was IT. There are some things that really

don't need much structure in the linear world and there are other

things that do.

If you are in the present moment you know YOURSELF as

IT/Consciousness and recognize this. Since you only know

yourself as a fragmented piece of Consciousness this is impossible

for you to understand. This is why " those who know don't tell. "

Well, it's not that they don't tell, it's just that no one

understands what it is there telling because they have no point of

reference for it. Then what's the point in telling anyways because

once you do someone pipes up and says, " if somone says they know

choke him. " And the masses all go hunting for the nearest noose,

gun, cross and nails and the crucifixion goes on and on. He says he

knows – blasphemy I tell you – we must rid ourselves of this demon

immediately, or belittle him/her by saying they don't know what

their talking about. It's the way of the fragmented state to

protect itself. And…..that's just fine. Really it is.

So, you get your fragmented perception by linear thinking/beliefs

and in this case you will always remain a choiceless victim until

you recognize that you are IT and IT is ALL and IT is ALL happening

now. That can't be explained or described however. There are no

words for that. You believe you are downstream (other and

separated) and so you are in your perception………….you are choiceless……

just as Krishna said to Arjuna. But if you shift your perception

to non-linear thinking/beliefs you are ONLY ALWAYS

YOU/IT/CONSCIOUSNESS happening now. YOU know YOUR choices and

decide accordingly. You (fragmented you) don't even know that you

are IT and so you remain in a conscious vacuum on the ass end of the

universe and don't even know you have dream cousins just next

door. You busy yourself splitting into joy for para-sailing and

then hatred for the whole dream that you vehmently repeat doesn't

exist. But, YOU already knows that and doesn't care it's a dream.

IT'S busy having a little experience and you are IT. you just

don't know it/IT that's all. (Lewis I don't know what you mean by

being a puppet or imagining so I can't really answer your

question. There is no puppet, there is only YOU and your inablity

to perceive on a non-linear basis at this time.) If you were

perceiving in the present moment and you decided you weren't into

para-sailing and didn't like to complain about it afterward as being

a dream which you are engaged in, then you'd either shit or get off

the pot. You'd stay parasailing or you'd stop. Consciousness ends

IT'S dreams and begins them in this way. YOU are IT and you just

don't accept it yet. Accepting that YOU are not a helpless

separated *you* and focusing in this moment takes you out of linear

fragmented perceptions – but why do that? This is part of the

dream/conscious experience --- until YOU decide it's not. And so

we have come full circle.

…………..you may resume your regular viewing program of the

helpless/choiceless/victim dog endlessly chasing his tail now.

I'm off for the summer so bye my loves. I'll see you in your

dreams eh? I'll blow you sweet kisses of sweet nothings on the

wind and for toombaru, I'll meet you in your dreams with my big

canines and sink them into your neck…………why not? It doesn't

matter – do what YOU like, live where YOU like, be what YOU like

and if YOU stop liking it then just stop. If YOU can't stop it

NoOne else can….why?.....because there IS NO ONE else……….only YOU

baby, only YOU.

Ashtavakara gita 7.5…..Truly I AM but pure consciousness, and the

world is like a conjuror's magician's show. 4.4 Who can prevent

the great-souled person who has known this whole world as OneSelf

from living as One please? 3.3 Recognizing I am That, why run

around like someone in need? 2.10 All this, which has originated

out of ME/IT, is resolved back into me too, like a gourd back into

soil, a wave into water.

(but you distract by debating if the water is the ocean or a wave

or real or illusion……hence your choiceless, victimized suffering.

Ashtavakara gita 1.16 All of this is really filled by YOU and strung

out in YOU, for what YOU consist of is pure awareness/consciousness –

so don't be small minded. 1.9 Burn down the forest of ignorance

with the fire of understanding. (only then will there be Nothing to

understand). Know `I am the ONE pure awareness/consciousness.'

With such ashes now be happy, free from distress. 20.2 For me,

free from the sense of dualism, there are no scriptures, no self-

knowledge, no mind free from an object, no satisfaction and no

freedom from desire.

May 11, 2005

Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote:

> It's all a matter of perception and belief. You perceive/believe

> that there is a downstream so there is. This is what initially and

> ultimately fragments you into this sense of `you' being separated.

> This is what causes you to say you are without choice and it's what

> makes you think you're a helpless victim of some kind of destiny –

> and hence the struggle to name or un-name it. If there is a

> downstream then you assume there must be an upstream, or debate that

> there is not an upstream. Then there is the endless osbsession with

> the debate about the upstream or downstream being illusion. This

> debate is merely a distraction that continues to keep you in a

> separated sense (while looking very enlightened as though you really

> know.) It's the same things all religions do - put something

> outside themselves, beyond themselves and beyond their understanding

> to comprehend – a distraction to give some god other then themselves

> power/control and allow them to `not' take responsibility. But in

> non-dualistic crowds the weirdest part is that you you say there is

> no god, no other, and no you, and that you are not even god because

> there is not one; that it's all a dream and yet remain dreaming

> (typing or para-sailing or whatever) all the while still dreaming.

> Here is inevitably where you then get chunked back into (swing back

> into) the sense of me/helpless victim/choiceless/pre-destined sort

> of thing. This is what you think/believe you are, which in turn

> becomes your reality (albeit a dream reality). So, many then

> believe there is some kind of destiny beyond there control because

> they are downstream from " it " all and are merely puppets. And that

> it's that kind of thought/belief which spins this idea of exclution

> and further fragments you into which you classify as separated.

> Aaaah, but the rub is that you " know " you're not separated and then

> further debate as to this dream that isn't real so how can you be

> separated….well….the debate endlessly goes on and on and on.

>

> I'm saying that YOU are IT All (irregardless or dream or not

> dream). Consciousness dreams and that's what IT does - and it also

> does not dream and myriad of in between stuff.

>

> As long as many of you continue to perceive from the focal point of

> linear time and dileneate into upstream/downstream concepts then you

> fragment. You can never separate because YOU are IT. You aren't

> separate from what YOU are -- which is consciousness. You only

> have the perception that you are separated by focusing on linear

> past and future. In this linear perception you suppose there is a

> you and this `you' is choiceless/helpless and a victim of some sort

> of destiny out of it's hands.

>

> If you drop the linear upstream/downstream concepts and obsession

> with the distraction of identifying that this is not real versus

> this is real concepts and if you become aware in this present moment

> YOU realize that IT is ALL **YOU**. This is what Self Realization

> really is. YOU are the choice in THIS moment -- there is NoOne

> else. There is ONLY YOU and YOU **are** Consciousness. YOU are not

> the helpless/choiceless downstream victim of some upstream concept.

> YOU are IT ALL here and now. By lineating your perceptions you get

> to freeze frame time, as it were, and take a look at things in what

> appears to be a slow motion and moment by moment freeze frame. As

> long as you think/believe that you are downstream then you are NOT

> perceiving from the present moment, which is not linear, but where

> everything is actually happening all at once. It's happening all at

> once because there is only ONE YOU. In order for there to be a

> sense of something other the perception has to be slowed down as it

> is in human experience so that you have a sense of there being

> something other than just YOU and something other than Right Now.

> Your focus on linear perception is what gives you the sense of

> separteness as a victim/choiceless. How can you not be YOU? And in

> the cobwebs you know it – hence the on-going search and debate to

> discover the answers that you know but somehow can't explain.

>

> You are ALL choice within all other choice (albeit it's a dream)

> and that's why YOU can stop it or start it any time. But you

> insist you are choiceless and that Krishna said to Arjuna there is

> no choice. This was merely a commentary that, yes, *you* Arjuna

> have no choice. As I once wrote to Toombaru that you (you) have no

> choice. This fragmented perception believes it and so it is.

> If/When you recognize that YOU are CONSCIOUSNESS then YOU are THAT

> WHICH MAKES THE CHOICES? Who did you think made the choices?

>

> Regarding the story offered on this board of Papaji and the car

> driving itself: This is a helpless victim story and is simply an

> illustration of papaji who is fragmented and doesn't yet recognize

> how this works. When you are not fighting against your

> Consciousness you become in this flow state where your kind of like

> putting together a rubics cube puzzle. (rubics cube is a 1980's box

> puzzle where everything kind of aligns together to form a box).

> When you are not fighting against your consciousness you become

> aware that there is a spot for this and that. Let me try to explain

> it in a with a linear example: You want to go to a city and will

> take a bus. You look at the schedule and recognize that bus leaves

> at 1:00, 5:00 and 10:00. You pick a time. No sense in getting

> there before then because you **KNOW** the bus won't be there

> until the set times. Another example: I plan on experiencing

> Samantha as human. (I don't care if it's a dream). There's no

> point in looking into this 900,000 B.C.E. (before common era)

> because humans didn't exist then. No point in looking at it after

> 100,000 C.E. (common era) because humans don't exist then either.

> It's done within the frame that YOU know it all fits in. Within

> the rubics cube Papaji would have seen an opening for a car crash at

> such and such a time. The fact that the car drove itself means only

> that papaji was fragmented and thinking in terms of linear time. He

> had no sense that he was IT. There are some things that really

> don't need much structure in the linear world and there are other

> things that do.

> If you are in the present moment you know YOURSELF as

> IT/Consciousness and recognize this. Since you only know

> yourself as a fragmented piece of Consciousness this is impossible

> for you to understand. This is why " those who know don't tell. "

> Well, it's not that they don't tell, it's just that no one

> understands what it is there telling because they have no point of

> reference for it. Then what's the point in telling anyways because

> once you do someone pipes up and says, " if somone says they know

> choke him. " And the masses all go hunting for the nearest noose,

> gun, cross and nails and the crucifixion goes on and on. He says he

> knows – blasphemy I tell you – we must rid ourselves of this demon

> immediately, or belittle him/her by saying they don't know what

> their talking about. It's the way of the fragmented state to

> protect itself. And…..that's just fine. Really it is.

>

> So, you get your fragmented perception by linear thinking/beliefs

> and in this case you will always remain a choiceless victim until

> you recognize that you are IT and IT is ALL and IT is ALL happening

> now. That can't be explained or described however. There are no

> words for that. You believe you are downstream (other and

> separated) and so you are in your perception………….you are choiceless……

> just as Krishna said to Arjuna. But if you shift your perception

> to non-linear thinking/beliefs you are ONLY ALWAYS

> YOU/IT/CONSCIOUSNESS happening now. YOU know YOUR choices and

> decide accordingly. You (fragmented you) don't even know that you

> are IT and so you remain in a conscious vacuum on the ass end of the

> universe and don't even know you have dream cousins just next

> door. You busy yourself splitting into joy for para-sailing and

> then hatred for the whole dream that you vehmently repeat doesn't

> exist. But, YOU already knows that and doesn't care it's a dream.

> IT'S busy having a little experience and you are IT. you just

> don't know it/IT that's all. (Lewis I don't know what you mean by

> being a puppet or imagining so I can't really answer your

> question. There is no puppet, there is only YOU and your inablity

> to perceive on a non-linear basis at this time.) If you were

> perceiving in the present moment and you decided you weren't into

> para-sailing and didn't like to complain about it afterward as being

> a dream which you are engaged in, then you'd either shit or get off

> the pot. You'd stay parasailing or you'd stop. Consciousness ends

> IT'S dreams and begins them in this way. YOU are IT and you just

> don't accept it yet. Accepting that YOU are not a helpless

> separated *you* and focusing in this moment takes you out of linear

> fragmented perceptions – but why do that? This is part of the

> dream/conscious experience --- until YOU decide it's not. And so

> we have come full circle.

>

> …………..you may resume your regular viewing program of the

> helpless/choiceless/victim dog endlessly chasing his tail now.

>

> I'm off for the summer so bye my loves. I'll see you in your

> dreams eh? I'll blow you sweet kisses of sweet nothings on the

> wind and for toombaru, I'll meet you in your dreams with my big

> canines and sink them into your neck…………why not? It doesn't

> matter – do what YOU like, live where YOU like, be what YOU like

> and if YOU stop liking it then just stop. If YOU can't stop it

> NoOne else can….why?.....because there IS NO ONE else……….only YOU

> baby, only YOU.

>

> Ashtavakara gita 7.5…..Truly I AM but pure consciousness, and the

> world is like a conjuror's magician's show. 4.4 Who can prevent

> the great-souled person who has known this whole world as OneSelf

> from living as One please? 3.3 Recognizing I am That, why run

> around like someone in need? 2.10 All this, which has originated

> out of ME/IT, is resolved back into me too, like a gourd back into

> soil, a wave into water.

>

> (but you distract by debating if the water is the ocean or a wave

> or real or illusion……hence your choiceless, victimized suffering.

>

> Ashtavakara gita 1.16 All of this is really filled by YOU and strung

> out in YOU, for what YOU consist of is pure awareness/consciousness –

> so don't be small minded. 1.9 Burn down the forest of ignorance

> with the fire of understanding. (only then will there be Nothing to

> understand). Know `I am the ONE pure awareness/consciousness.'

> With such ashes now be happy, free from distress. 20.2 For me,

> free from the sense of dualism, there are no scriptures, no self-

> knowledge, no mind free from an object, no satisfaction and no

> freedom from desire.

simultaneously the im-man-ence...and the transcen-dance.

love

toombaru

May 11, 2005

(Hello),

an eternity slips away.....

(Goodbye),

a moment suspends itself.

In This

In Love

Without hello and goodbye.

This meeting of I and Thou.

love,

Anna

-

sam_t_7

Nisargadatta

Wednesday, May 11, 2005 10:20 AM