Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 AdvaitaToZen , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > [Note: Disguised Zen ideology > using mental parlor tricks] > > See below for further details. > > > > " Presence is all there is " > > Fuzzy > > > > P: And all of you who are absent, > > please raise your right hand. > > I don't see any hands showing, > > so the dictum is comfirmed! > > > > See below for further details. " Presence is all there is. " Is it? What does that mean? Could it only mean: the feeling of presence is all there is? Feelings of presence appear in consciousness. Without consciousness there are no feelings of any kind. Does this mean consciousness is all there is? No. Both, consciousness and the feeling of presence appear and disappear together. Both, point to a basic substratum of existence without which this communication could not take place. So, what is that substratum called existence? That we can't know because it's outside meaning itself, and all that we can know, or are, is meaning. So what is meaning then? Meaning is the shape of chaos. The shape which experience traces on the primal chaos of perception. This is hard to see for those who have met chaos only once, at birth. Even the most primary sensation, say, seeing a splash of red, has the rudimentary meaning that you have seen red before, and that you sense it as different from green. Even when you, don't label it as red, you perceive it as red. At birth, we encounter chaos in its primal form: a jumble of undifferentiated meaningless perceptions in which color, was no different from sound, or touch. A solid impenetrable block of perception was encountered, and on this block, life with the chisel and hammer of need and satisfaction started carving meaning. Hunger and food, cold and warmth, pain and pleasure started eroding the block. We associated food, the pleasant with a smell, a smile, a face, and a world began to take shape. A nebulous presence was felt. Form is the outline of chaos (emptiness). Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. What lies beyond? Here we walk on the very edge. Dare you to plunge? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2005 Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: AdvaitaToZen , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > [Note: Disguised Zen ideology > using mental parlor tricks] > > See below for further details. > > > > " Presence is all there is " > > Fuzzy > > > > P: And all of you who are absent, > > please raise your right hand. > > I don't see any hands showing, > > so the dictum is comfirmed! > > > > See below for further details. " Presence is all there is. " Is it? What does that mean? Could it only mean: the feeling of presence is all there is? Feelings of presence appear in consciousness. Without consciousness there are no feelings of any kind. Does this mean consciousness is all there is? No. Both, consciousness and the feeling of presence appear and disappear together. Both, point to a basic substratum of existence without which this communication could not take place. So, what is that substratum called existence? That we can't know because it's outside meaning itself, and all that we can know, or are, is meaning. So what is meaning then? Meaning is the shape of chaos. The shape which experience traces on the primal chaos of perception. This is hard to see for those who have met chaos only once, at birth. Even the most primary sensation, say, seeing a splash of red, has the rudimentary meaning that you have seen red before, and that you sense it as different from green. Even when you, don't label it as red, you perceive it as red. At birth, we encounter chaos in its primal form: a jumble of undifferentiated meaningless perceptions in which color, was no different from sound, or touch. A solid impenetrable block of perception was encountered, and on this block, life with the chisel and hammer of need and satisfaction started carving meaning. Hunger and food, cold and warmth, pain and pleasure started eroding the block. We associated food, the pleasant with a smell, a smile, a face, and a world began to take shape. A nebulous presence was felt. Form is the outline of chaos (emptiness). Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. What lies beyond? Here we walk on the very edge. Dare you to plunge? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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