Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, June 06, 2005 10:18 AM Levels of Bliss In our ordinary life we experience opposites like god-bad, sad-happy, peaceful-restless, hate-love e t c. Without these opposites there would simply not exist any kind of experiences. Is this all that existence has to offer? Maybe not. People practicing spiritual paths often describe a state of bliss that is more positive than the most positive emotions experienced in daily life. This means that a state of bliss exists that is higher and beyond the ordinary person's states of being. But to rise above ordinary emotions based on opposites, a step must be taken to reach the first level of bliss. All emotions in an ordinary person are limited to bliss level 0, where no bliss can be experienced, directly known or felt. Bliss level 1 is the first step where bliss is available. Bliss has no opposite in the form of negative emotions. How then can bliss be known? The answer is that bliss has a virtual opposite represented by the balanced mid point of level 0. Thus the negative opposite on level 1 is the average of all emotions on level 0. On level 1, the most negative emotions that can appear are emotions which on level 0 are considered to be neutral. Stepping up to level 1 does not mean that emotions on level 0 are no longer relevant or are discarded as being unimportant. When taking the step into level 1, level 0 is transcended but also embraced. The extremely negative emotions on level 0 are no longer directly felt on level 1, but the memory and knowledge of these negative emotions are still there, and must be there, because otherwise there would be no new opposite for level 1 emotions to be contrasted with. It is not possible to step into level 1 without first having a full and deep enough experience of level 0. Level 2 is reached by using the mid point of level 1 emotions as an opposite to bliss. Level 3 is reached by using the mid point of level 2 as an opposite to bliss, and so on... al. dearest al. do you know what bliss feels like? Tastes like? Smells like? Sounds like? Looks like? a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, June 06, 2005 10:18 AM > Levels of Bliss > > > In our ordinary life we experience opposites like god-bad, sad-happy, > peaceful-restless, hate-love e t c. Without these opposites there > would simply not exist any kind of experiences. > > Is this all that existence has to offer? Maybe not. People practicing > spiritual paths often describe a state of bliss that is more positive > than the most positive emotions experienced in daily life. This means > that a state of bliss exists that is higher and beyond the ordinary > person's states of being. > > But to rise above ordinary emotions based on opposites, a step must be > taken to reach the first level of bliss. All emotions in an ordinary > person are limited to bliss level 0, where no bliss can be > experienced, directly known or felt. Bliss level 1 is the first step > where bliss is available. > > Bliss has no opposite in the form of negative emotions. How then can > bliss be known? The answer is that bliss has a virtual opposite > represented by the balanced mid point of level 0. Thus the negative > opposite on level 1 is the average of all emotions on level 0. On > level 1, the most negative emotions that can appear are emotions which > on level 0 are considered to be neutral. > > Stepping up to level 1 does not mean that emotions on level 0 are no > longer relevant or are discarded as being unimportant. When taking the > step into level 1, level 0 is transcended but also embraced. The > extremely negative emotions on level 0 are no longer directly felt on > level 1, but the memory and knowledge of these negative emotions are > still there, and must be there, because otherwise there would be no > new opposite for level 1 emotions to be contrasted with. It is not > possible to step into level 1 without first having a full and deep > enough experience of level 0. > > Level 2 is reached by using the mid point of level 1 emotions as an > opposite to bliss. Level 3 is reached by using the mid point of level > 2 as an opposite to bliss, and so on... > > al. > > > dearest al. > > do you know what bliss feels like? Tastes like? Smells like? Sounds like? Looks like? > > > a. > I have experienced a sense of total relief and relaxation in the twilight zone between dreaming and waking up. It is an extremely easy, effortless and clear state. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, June 06, 2005 11:20 AM Re: Levels of Bliss Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, June 06, 2005 10:18 AM > Levels of Bliss > > > In our ordinary life we experience opposites like god-bad, sad-happy, > peaceful-restless, hate-love e t c. Without these opposites there > would simply not exist any kind of experiences. > > Is this all that existence has to offer? Maybe not. People practicing > spiritual paths often describe a state of bliss that is more positive > than the most positive emotions experienced in daily life. This means > that a state of bliss exists that is higher and beyond the ordinary > person's states of being. > > But to rise above ordinary emotions based on opposites, a step must be > taken to reach the first level of bliss. All emotions in an ordinary > person are limited to bliss level 0, where no bliss can be > experienced, directly known or felt. Bliss level 1 is the first step > where bliss is available. > > Bliss has no opposite in the form of negative emotions. How then can > bliss be known? The answer is that bliss has a virtual opposite > represented by the balanced mid point of level 0. Thus the negative > opposite on level 1 is the average of all emotions on level 0. On > level 1, the most negative emotions that can appear are emotions which > on level 0 are considered to be neutral. > > Stepping up to level 1 does not mean that emotions on level 0 are no > longer relevant or are discarded as being unimportant. When taking the > step into level 1, level 0 is transcended but also embraced. The > extremely negative emotions on level 0 are no longer directly felt on > level 1, but the memory and knowledge of these negative emotions are > still there, and must be there, because otherwise there would be no > new opposite for level 1 emotions to be contrasted with. It is not > possible to step into level 1 without first having a full and deep > enough experience of level 0. > > Level 2 is reached by using the mid point of level 1 emotions as an > opposite to bliss. Level 3 is reached by using the mid point of level > 2 as an opposite to bliss, and so on... > > al. > > > dearest al. > > do you know what bliss feels like? Tastes like? Smells like? Sounds like? Looks like? > > > a. > I have experienced a sense of total relief and relaxation in the twilight zone between dreaming and waking up. It is an extremely easy, effortless and clear state. al. Would you perhaps add a possiblity that this may be lived 24/7 or close to. And bliss may attend perfect stillness, a meditation, including a vast range of 'experiences' that heretofore have not ever been glimpsed? Or Known? a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, June 06, 2005 11:20 AM > Re: Levels of Bliss > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, June 06, 2005 10:18 AM > > Levels of Bliss > > > > > > In our ordinary life we experience opposites like god-bad, sad-happy, > > peaceful-restless, hate-love e t c. Without these opposites there > > would simply not exist any kind of experiences. > > > > Is this all that existence has to offer? Maybe not. People practicing > > spiritual paths often describe a state of bliss that is more positive > > than the most positive emotions experienced in daily life. This means > > that a state of bliss exists that is higher and beyond the ordinary > > person's states of being. > > > > But to rise above ordinary emotions based on opposites, a step must be > > taken to reach the first level of bliss. All emotions in an ordinary > > person are limited to bliss level 0, where no bliss can be > > experienced, directly known or felt. Bliss level 1 is the first step > > where bliss is available. > > > > Bliss has no opposite in the form of negative emotions. How then can > > bliss be known? The answer is that bliss has a virtual opposite > > represented by the balanced mid point of level 0. Thus the negative > > opposite on level 1 is the average of all emotions on level 0. On > > level 1, the most negative emotions that can appear are emotions which > > on level 0 are considered to be neutral. > > > > Stepping up to level 1 does not mean that emotions on level 0 are no > > longer relevant or are discarded as being unimportant. When taking the > > step into level 1, level 0 is transcended but also embraced. The > > extremely negative emotions on level 0 are no longer directly felt on > > level 1, but the memory and knowledge of these negative emotions are > > still there, and must be there, because otherwise there would be no > > new opposite for level 1 emotions to be contrasted with. It is not > > possible to step into level 1 without first having a full and deep > > enough experience of level 0. > > > > Level 2 is reached by using the mid point of level 1 emotions as an > > opposite to bliss. Level 3 is reached by using the mid point of level > > 2 as an opposite to bliss, and so on... > > > > al. > > > > > > dearest al. > > > > do you know what bliss feels like? Tastes like? Smells like? > Sounds like? Looks like? > > > > > > a. > > > > > I have experienced a sense of total relief and relaxation in the > twilight zone between dreaming and waking up. It is an extremely easy, > effortless and clear state. > > al. > > > Would you perhaps add a possiblity that this may be lived 24/7 or close to. And bliss may > attend perfect stillness, a meditation, > including a vast range of 'experiences' that > heretofore have not ever been glimpsed? > > Or Known? > > a. > Someone in another list wrote this in response to my idea of bliss: -------- AUROBINDO QUOTE The gnostic consciousness will proceed towards an integral knowledge. And that will not be a revelation or a delivery of light out of darkness, but of light out of light. I have had difficulty understanding Aurobindo's statement " light out of light. " Your analysis may be helpful in this! -------- My reply to this was: -------- If we look at negative emotions as darkness and positive emotions as light, then my idea about bliss builds on a scale that starts with higher and higher levels of light, with a theoretical (infinite) highest level of bliss as pure light out of pure light. If we grade the scale of emotions with -1 as the most negative value (darkness) and +1 as the most positive value (light), then we get the following intervals for the different levels of bliss: Level 0: [-1, 1[ Level 1: [0, 1] Level 2: [0.5, 1] Level 3: [0.75, 1] Level 4: [0.875, 1] Level 5: [0.9375, 1] Level 6: [0.96875, 1] Level 7: [0.984375, 1] .... This indicates a sort of transformation, a quantum leap out of darkness when consciousness goes from level 0 to level 1; a form of awakening out of darkness. It seems to me that Aurobindo was pointing to such an awakening with the statement " light out of light " . -------- This also means that when the leap from level 0 to level 1 has been made, then it is no longer possible - on a 24/7 basis - to directly experience the very negative emotions in the interval [-1, 0[. My speculation is that when the step into level 1 has been made, then it will be possible to " attend perfect stillness, a meditation, including a vast range of 'experiences' that heretofore have not ever been glimpsed " , as you wrote. Bliss, bliss al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 6, 2005 Report Share Posted June 6, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, June 06, 2005 4:37 PM Re: Levels of Bliss Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, June 06, 2005 11:20 AM > Re: Levels of Bliss > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, June 06, 2005 10:18 AM > > Levels of Bliss > > > > > > In our ordinary life we experience opposites like god-bad, sad-happy, > > peaceful-restless, hate-love e t c. Without these opposites there > > would simply not exist any kind of experiences. > > > > Is this all that existence has to offer? Maybe not. People practicing > > spiritual paths often describe a state of bliss that is more positive > > than the most positive emotions experienced in daily life. This means > > that a state of bliss exists that is higher and beyond the ordinary > > person's states of being. > > > > But to rise above ordinary emotions based on opposites, a step must be > > taken to reach the first level of bliss. All emotions in an ordinary > > person are limited to bliss level 0, where no bliss can be > > experienced, directly known or felt. Bliss level 1 is the first step > > where bliss is available. > > > > Bliss has no opposite in the form of negative emotions. How then can > > bliss be known? The answer is that bliss has a virtual opposite > > represented by the balanced mid point of level 0. Thus the negative > > opposite on level 1 is the average of all emotions on level 0. On > > level 1, the most negative emotions that can appear are emotions which > > on level 0 are considered to be neutral. > > > > Stepping up to level 1 does not mean that emotions on level 0 are no > > longer relevant or are discarded as being unimportant. When taking the > > step into level 1, level 0 is transcended but also embraced. The > > extremely negative emotions on level 0 are no longer directly felt on > > level 1, but the memory and knowledge of these negative emotions are > > still there, and must be there, because otherwise there would be no > > new opposite for level 1 emotions to be contrasted with. It is not > > possible to step into level 1 without first having a full and deep > > enough experience of level 0. > > > > Level 2 is reached by using the mid point of level 1 emotions as an > > opposite to bliss. Level 3 is reached by using the mid point of level > > 2 as an opposite to bliss, and so on... > > > > al. > > > > > > dearest al. > > > > do you know what bliss feels like? Tastes like? Smells like? > Sounds like? Looks like? > > > > > > a. > > > > > I have experienced a sense of total relief and relaxation in the > twilight zone between dreaming and waking up. It is an extremely easy, > effortless and clear state. > > al. > > > Would you perhaps add a possiblity that this may be lived 24/7 or close to. And bliss may > attend perfect stillness, a meditation, > including a vast range of 'experiences' that > heretofore have not ever been glimpsed? > > Or Known? > > a. > Someone in another list wrote this in response to my idea of bliss: -------- AUROBINDO QUOTE The gnostic consciousness will proceed towards an integral knowledge. And that will not be a revelation or a delivery of light out of darkness, but of light out of light. I have had difficulty understanding Aurobindo's statement " light out of light. " Your analysis may be helpful in this! -------- My reply to this was: -------- If we look at negative emotions as darkness and positive emotions as light, then my idea about bliss builds on a scale that starts with higher and higher levels of light, with a theoretical (infinite) highest level of bliss as pure light out of pure light. If we grade the scale of emotions with -1 as the most negative value (darkness) and +1 as the most positive value (light), then we get the following intervals for the different levels of bliss: Level 0: [-1, 1[ Level 1: [0, 1] Level 2: [0.5, 1] Level 3: [0.75, 1] Level 4: [0.875, 1] Level 5: [0.9375, 1] Level 6: [0.96875, 1] Level 7: [0.984375, 1] ... This indicates a sort of transformation, a quantum leap out of darkness when consciousness goes from level 0 to level 1; a form of awakening out of darkness. It seems to me that Aurobindo was pointing to such an awakening with the statement " light out of light " . -------- This also means that when the leap from level 0 to level 1 has been made, then it is no longer possible - on a 24/7 basis - to directly experience the very negative emotions in the interval [-1, 0[. My speculation is that when the step into level 1 has been made, then it will be possible to " attend perfect stillness, a meditation, including a vast range of 'experiences' that heretofore have not ever been glimpsed " , as you wrote. Bliss, bliss al. Funny thing, making charts and explanations. It's understood perhaps afterwords, not much before ;-) And I'm sure you're way past 'Go " . Bliss bliss a. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Hi Al and all... Bliss is what we always were, always are - minus the thought that we are anything. Bliss is always there and comes out of bliss. Light is always there and comes out of light. Darkness only means: the absence of light, the shadow. When the sun rises (or the door opens) and the light enters everything remains the same... just only enlightened. That simple and ordinary. Love Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 - Stefan Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:01 AM Re: Levels of Bliss Hi Al and all... Bliss is what we always were, always are - minus the thought that we are anything. Bliss is always there and comes out of bliss. Light is always there and comes out of light. Darkness only means: the absence of light, the shadow. When the sun rises (or the door opens) and the light enters everything remains the same... just only enlightened. That simple and ordinary. Love Stefan Hi Stefan and Al, That's all there ever was. That is your body in Sleep. And when awake, when enlightened.,,, 24/7. 365/366 Go tell it on the mountain, and please don't charge them for it... Love, Anna ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > Hi Al and all... > > Bliss is what we always were, always are - minus the thought that we > are anything. > > Bliss is always there and comes out of bliss. > > Light is always there and comes out of light. > > Darkness only means: the absence of light, the shadow. When the sun > rises (or the door opens) and the light enters everything remains the > same... just only enlightened. > > That simple and ordinary. > > Love > Stefan The thought that we are anything you mention, is probably the same thing as what people often call the ego. Maybe that's a smart definition of the ego. If I ask myself: " Am I anything? " the answer comes: " No, I am no thing " . al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 7, 2005 Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Tuesday, June 07, 2005 9:34 AM Re: Levels of Bliss Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > Hi Al and all... > > Bliss is what we always were, always are - minus the thought that we > are anything. > > Bliss is always there and comes out of bliss. > > Light is always there and comes out of light. > > Darkness only means: the absence of light, the shadow. When the sun > rises (or the door opens) and the light enters everything remains the > same... just only enlightened. > > That simple and ordinary. > > Love > Stefan The thought that we are anything you mention, is probably the same thing as what people often call the ego. Maybe that's a smart definition of the ego. If I ask myself: " Am I anything? " the answer comes: " No, I am no thing " . al. Hey hey hey the Two become One NOTHING BUT BLISS love ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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