Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 Hi Gene, I am wondering, how finally is this not nihilistic? jp Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > About 5000 years ago sages around the Indus River, in India, used the > silence of meditation to study their thoughts. To make a long story > short – they came up with everything physicists have come up with > over the last 100 years. > > Over the last 100 years physicists have studied their particles in > the same systematic and methodical manner as did the Indus River > sages study their thoughts. > Because of their studies, Physicists came up with Quantum Mechanics > and Relativity and their Uncertainty Principle. Put it all together > and they uncovered that particles are exactly like thoughts. > > As with thoughts, particles are what the mind is. If the mind wants > waves then particles are waves, and if the mind wants particles then > waves are particles. And the closer the observer gets to the > observation, the particles, the more elusive they get. And thus the > Uncertainty Principle. And thus at close quarters particles are not > even particles, nor waves, but probability-clouds. Just like > thoughts. The closer we try to get to a thought the more elusive it > gets. > > Light is the perfect example of a thought:: the faster we go to try > and catch light the more obvious it becomes that we are standing > still. So too with thoughts. We cannot catch thoughts mostly because > they are Nothing. > -=- > > To understand thoughts, and then the " reality " our mind > creates out of its thoughts, I have to study thoughts methodically > and systematically. > One way to study thoughts systematically and methodically is through > a relative vacuum of thoughts. Meditation can provide the observer > with the needed vacuum. > > First: In the thoughtless silence of meditation the observer can > observe that when thoughts come they come out of Nothing to return > into Nothing to be Nothing. Physics tells us the same story about its > sub-atomic particles. > > Second: In thoughtless-silence it is obvious that there is > absolutely no control of thoughts. The control of thoughts is an > illusion the mind gives us at its gross level. This illusion is the > same illusion particles give us when they appear to be combined into > atoms and then molecules when in Reality they are not only separate > but separated by voids called quantums. > > Third: there are voids or gaps between thoughts, particles. > Physicists call these gaps quantums. Physics tells us that its > particles can only exist in very specific energy or quantum levels. > Between one quantum level and another there is an absolute and total > void. > At the gross level the likes of atoms and molecules make quantums > vanish but they exist in the background to make atoms and molecules > work the way they do. > > In the thoughtless Silence of meditation these gaps or quantums > between thoughts are monumental. Only when I can understand how > thoughts are separated with these gaps can I sort of understand why > Papaji keeps trying to tell me: putting effort into things like > meditation is a total waste of time. > Effort is a total waste of time because it is just a thought. > > To understand these gaps I meditate to try to Silence my mind. > This is impossible but my ego does not know it. (I will define an > ego as a mind that thinks it can control its thoughts – > actions.) > > I read all sorts of books on meditation and yoga that tell me that > only the likes of geniuses can concentrate strong enough to control > their minds and thus go through all the levels of consciousness to > end up in samadhi. > > Some of these experts, on meditation and samadhi, go on to tell me > that if I concentrate hard enough, and long enough, then my mind > will also go through different levels of consciousness that they > describe in detail. So this ego, called I, concentrates like hell > not to have thoughts in meditation so it can, with enough practice > and effort, go into samadhi. > > For years I practice and concentrate to focus my mind on Silence so > it, the mind, can vanish into samadhi. > > But after years of practice and effort it dawns on me that Papaji is > right and this effort is all a total waste of time because > this " effort " is just a thought, like thinking. > > When I concentrate like hell not to have thoughts, in meditation, > something happens so routinely that it makes concentration an > exercise in futility. > > In the Silence of thoughtless-meditation I try and I try to > concentrate on no-thoughts but then there comes a void that makes > concentration utterly futile. With practice these voids between > thoughts become more and more profound. > > TO put this void into perspective: these voids between thoughts work > like a blackout. This void or blackout between thoughts is so > profound that it is like concentrating like hell to play chess in > LA and then suddenly I find myself enjoying golf in Sydney – > and there is absolutely NOTHING IN BETWEEN LA and Sydney. > > This is exactly how profound this void is between thoughts during > meditation. How can I keep concentrating on chess in LA when > the next moment I am enjoying golf in Sydney – and there is > nothing in between? It is impossible, otherwise, it is an exercise > if futility. THAT IS exactly HOW PROFUND these voids are between > thoughts, like concentration. > > Everything " I " try to " do " in meditation and yoga > (and everything that is intellectual ) assumes that things are > continuous – like effort and concentration is continuous. The > total blackout between thoughts make it obvious that there is > absolutely nothing continuous about thoughts. > > The study of thoughts tells me what physics tries to tell me: > that thinking, and the control of thoughts and concentration and > effort are all just thoughts. > > It was this study of thoughts that gives me the word maya: illusion > or dream, fiction, hallucination. My mind or ego is this maya. > > To my mind thoughts are pure hallucinations that appear to be real > because the mind is the police and judge and jury of all of its > thoughts. The mind is not a thought generator because it is the > thoughts, hallucinations. The mind cannot know anything but what it > is: thoughts, hallucinations… The mind is always dreaming that > it is awake. > -=- > So if thinking, effort and concentration and meditation, are just > thoughts then what can I do to wake up, to be Self-realized? The > answer is what Papaji tells me: I can do absolutely nothing because > even the " I " – the doer -- is a thought. In Reality there > is no doer. BUT the doer, called ego, does not know this. And as > he, Papaji, says: the more effort the imaginary " I " puts > into trying to get realized the more futile it all gets because in > Reality NOTHING ever HAPPENS. > > And so if the ego thinks it can think then let me play a game with my > ego. I can play this game by letting my ego think that life is a > dream, maya. The theory behind this game called maya: if my ego > thinks about dreaming long enough then it will become the dream. > > This pretending to be dreaming is as simple as pretending to be > another person, like Napoleon. If I pretend that I am Napoleon long > enough then I will be Napoleon regardless of what anyone else (in my > dream) might think. Pretending to be dreaming works the same. > In a dream the subject, verb and object are the same – the > dreamer and then dreaming and everything that is dreamed is all the > SAME -- JUST LIKE ADVAITA tells me maya is. > > So if I pretend to be dreaming then I have to also pretend that I am > everyone else in my dream – they, the others, only appear to be > different from the imaginary me. (In a dream everything is > imaginary). And as long as my ego plays this game called dreaming I > will be AWAKE to the dream called maya. > > And when this dreaming starts to make sense then there is a JOY > associated with this dreaming and it is called maya. This Joy or maya > is the Self, the Dreamer – the Unified Field -- enjoying its > dream – the mind, ego, maya. > > This Joy I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS; and only an cocksure ego can > think otherwise. > > -- thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the Joy called maya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 This is a Very Good Post, GP ! regards, ac. Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > About 5000 years ago sages around the Indus River, in India, used the > silence of meditation to study their thoughts. To make a long story > short – they came up with everything physicists have come up with > over the last 100 years. > > Over the last 100 years physicists have studied their particles in > the same systematic and methodical manner as did the Indus River > sages study their thoughts. > Because of their studies, Physicists came up with Quantum Mechanics > and Relativity and their Uncertainty Principle. Put it all together > and they uncovered that particles are exactly like thoughts. > > As with thoughts, particles are what the mind is. If the mind wants > waves then particles are waves, and if the mind wants particles then > waves are particles. And the closer the observer gets to the > observation, the particles, the more elusive they get. And thus the > Uncertainty Principle. And thus at close quarters particles are not > even particles, nor waves, but probability-clouds. Just like > thoughts. The closer we try to get to a thought the more elusive it > gets. > > Light is the perfect example of a thought:: the faster we go to try > and catch light the more obvious it becomes that we are standing > still. So too with thoughts. We cannot catch thoughts mostly because > they are Nothing. > -=- > > To understand thoughts, and then the " reality " our mind > creates out of its thoughts, I have to study thoughts methodically > and systematically. > One way to study thoughts systematically and methodically is through > a relative vacuum of thoughts. Meditation can provide the observer > with the needed vacuum. > > First: In the thoughtless silence of meditation the observer can > observe that when thoughts come they come out of Nothing to return > into Nothing to be Nothing. Physics tells us the same story about its > sub-atomic particles. > > Second: In thoughtless-silence it is obvious that there is > absolutely no control of thoughts. The control of thoughts is an > illusion the mind gives us at its gross level. This illusion is the > same illusion particles give us when they appear to be combined into > atoms and then molecules when in Reality they are not only separate > but separated by voids called quantums. > > Third: there are voids or gaps between thoughts, particles. > Physicists call these gaps quantums. Physics tells us that its > particles can only exist in very specific energy or quantum levels. > Between one quantum level and another there is an absolute and total > void. > At the gross level the likes of atoms and molecules make quantums > vanish but they exist in the background to make atoms and molecules > work the way they do. > > In the thoughtless Silence of meditation these gaps or quantums > between thoughts are monumental. Only when I can understand how > thoughts are separated with these gaps can I sort of understand why > Papaji keeps trying to tell me: putting effort into things like > meditation is a total waste of time. > Effort is a total waste of time because it is just a thought. > > To understand these gaps I meditate to try to Silence my mind. > This is impossible but my ego does not know it. (I will define an > ego as a mind that thinks it can control its thoughts – > actions.) > > I read all sorts of books on meditation and yoga that tell me that > only the likes of geniuses can concentrate strong enough to control > their minds and thus go through all the levels of consciousness to > end up in samadhi. > > Some of these experts, on meditation and samadhi, go on to tell me > that if I concentrate hard enough, and long enough, then my mind > will also go through different levels of consciousness that they > describe in detail. So this ego, called I, concentrates like hell > not to have thoughts in meditation so it can, with enough practice > and effort, go into samadhi. > > For years I practice and concentrate to focus my mind on Silence so > it, the mind, can vanish into samadhi. > > But after years of practice and effort it dawns on me that Papaji is > right and this effort is all a total waste of time because > this " effort " is just a thought, like thinking. > > When I concentrate like hell not to have thoughts, in meditation, > something happens so routinely that it makes concentration an > exercise in futility. > > In the Silence of thoughtless-meditation I try and I try to > concentrate on no-thoughts but then there comes a void that makes > concentration utterly futile. With practice these voids between > thoughts become more and more profound. > > TO put this void into perspective: these voids between thoughts work > like a blackout. This void or blackout between thoughts is so > profound that it is like concentrating like hell to play chess in > LA and then suddenly I find myself enjoying golf in Sydney – > and there is absolutely NOTHING IN BETWEEN LA and Sydney. > > This is exactly how profound this void is between thoughts during > meditation. How can I keep concentrating on chess in LA when > the next moment I am enjoying golf in Sydney – and there is > nothing in between? It is impossible, otherwise, it is an exercise > if futility. THAT IS exactly HOW PROFUND these voids are between > thoughts, like concentration. > > Everything " I " try to " do " in meditation and yoga > (and everything that is intellectual ) assumes that things are > continuous – like effort and concentration is continuous. The > total blackout between thoughts make it obvious that there is > absolutely nothing continuous about thoughts. > > The study of thoughts tells me what physics tries to tell me: > that thinking, and the control of thoughts and concentration and > effort are all just thoughts. > > It was this study of thoughts that gives me the word maya: illusion > or dream, fiction, hallucination. My mind or ego is this maya. > > To my mind thoughts are pure hallucinations that appear to be real > because the mind is the police and judge and jury of all of its > thoughts. The mind is not a thought generator because it is the > thoughts, hallucinations. The mind cannot know anything but what it > is: thoughts, hallucinations… The mind is always dreaming that > it is awake. > -=- > So if thinking, effort and concentration and meditation, are just > thoughts then what can I do to wake up, to be Self-realized? The > answer is what Papaji tells me: I can do absolutely nothing because > even the " I " – the doer -- is a thought. In Reality there > is no doer. BUT the doer, called ego, does not know this. And as > he, Papaji, says: the more effort the imaginary " I " puts > into trying to get realized the more futile it all gets because in > Reality NOTHING ever HAPPENS. > > And so if the ego thinks it can think then let me play a game with my > ego. I can play this game by letting my ego think that life is a > dream, maya. The theory behind this game called maya: if my ego > thinks about dreaming long enough then it will become the dream. > > This pretending to be dreaming is as simple as pretending to be > another person, like Napoleon. If I pretend that I am Napoleon long > enough then I will be Napoleon regardless of what anyone else (in my > dream) might think. Pretending to be dreaming works the same. > In a dream the subject, verb and object are the same – the > dreamer and then dreaming and everything that is dreamed is all the > SAME -- JUST LIKE ADVAITA tells me maya is. > > So if I pretend to be dreaming then I have to also pretend that I am > everyone else in my dream – they, the others, only appear to be > different from the imaginary me. (In a dream everything is > imaginary). And as long as my ego plays this game called dreaming I > will be AWAKE to the dream called maya. > > And when this dreaming starts to make sense then there is a JOY > associated with this dreaming and it is called maya. This Joy or maya > is the Self, the Dreamer – the Unified Field -- enjoying its > dream – the mind, ego, maya. > > This Joy I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS; and only an cocksure ego can > think otherwise. > > -- thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the Joy called maya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " johnmp_nr " <johnmp_nr> wrote: > Hi Gene, > > I am wondering, how finally is this not nihilistic? > > jp > > ============================ Hi jp, MY ego called jp wonders how nihilistic is " this " to MY ego called jp. Thoughts come: if " THIS " annihilates the thoughts that separate the Dreamer from the dream then the ego called jp will vanish to be/leave the Dreamer, ME. -- more thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the JOY called maya ======================================== > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > wrote: > > About 5000 years ago sages around the Indus River, in India, used > the > > silence of meditation to study their thoughts. To make a long story > > short – they came up with everything physicists have come up > with > > over the last 100 years. > > > > Over the last 100 years physicists have studied their particles in > > the same systematic and methodical manner as did the Indus River > > sages study their thoughts. > > Because of their studies, Physicists came up with Quantum Mechanics > > and Relativity and their Uncertainty Principle. Put it all > together > > and they uncovered that particles are exactly like thoughts. > > > > As with thoughts, particles are what the mind is. If the mind > wants > > waves then particles are waves, and if the mind wants particles > then > > waves are particles. And the closer the observer gets to the > > observation, the particles, the more elusive they get. And thus the > > Uncertainty Principle. And thus at close quarters particles are > not > > even particles, nor waves, but probability-clouds. Just like > > thoughts. The closer we try to get to a thought the more elusive it > > gets. > > > > Light is the perfect example of a thought:: the faster we go to > try > > and catch light the more obvious it becomes that we are standing > > still. So too with thoughts. We cannot catch thoughts mostly > because > > they are Nothing. > > -=- > > > > To understand thoughts, and then the " reality " our mind > > creates out of its thoughts, I have to study thoughts methodically > > and systematically. > > One way to study thoughts systematically and methodically is > through > > a relative vacuum of thoughts. Meditation can provide the observer > > with the needed vacuum. > > > > First: In the thoughtless silence of meditation the observer can > > observe that when thoughts come they come out of Nothing to return > > into Nothing to be Nothing. Physics tells us the same story about > its > > sub-atomic particles. > > > > Second: In thoughtless-silence it is obvious that there is > > absolutely no control of thoughts. The control of thoughts is an > > illusion the mind gives us at its gross level. This illusion is > the > > same illusion particles give us when they appear to be combined > into > > atoms and then molecules when in Reality they are not only separate > > but separated by voids called quantums. > > > > Third: there are voids or gaps between thoughts, particles. > > Physicists call these gaps quantums. Physics tells us that its > > particles can only exist in very specific energy or quantum levels. > > Between one quantum level and another there is an absolute and > total > > void. > > At the gross level the likes of atoms and molecules make quantums > > vanish but they exist in the background to make atoms and > molecules > > work the way they do. > > > > In the thoughtless Silence of meditation these gaps or quantums > > between thoughts are monumental. Only when I can understand how > > thoughts are separated with these gaps can I sort of understand > why > > Papaji keeps trying to tell me: putting effort into things like > > meditation is a total waste of time. > > Effort is a total waste of time because it is just a thought. > > > > To understand these gaps I meditate to try to Silence my mind. > > This is impossible but my ego does not know it. (I will define an > > ego as a mind that thinks it can control its thoughts – > > actions.) > > > > I read all sorts of books on meditation and yoga that tell me that > > only the likes of geniuses can concentrate strong enough to control > > their minds and thus go through all the levels of consciousness to > > end up in samadhi. > > > > Some of these experts, on meditation and samadhi, go on to tell > me > > that if I concentrate hard enough, and long enough, then my mind > > will also go through different levels of consciousness that they > > describe in detail. So this ego, called I, concentrates like hell > > not to have thoughts in meditation so it can, with enough practice > > and effort, go into samadhi. > > > > For years I practice and concentrate to focus my mind on Silence so > > it, the mind, can vanish into samadhi. > > > > But after years of practice and effort it dawns on me that Papaji > is > > right and this effort is all a total waste of time because > > this " effort " is just a thought, like thinking. > > > > When I concentrate like hell not to have thoughts, in meditation, > > something happens so routinely that it makes concentration an > > exercise in futility. > > > > In the Silence of thoughtless-meditation I try and I try to > > concentrate on no-thoughts but then there comes a void that makes > > concentration utterly futile. With practice these voids between > > thoughts become more and more profound. > > > > TO put this void into perspective: these voids between thoughts > work > > like a blackout. This void or blackout between thoughts is so > > profound that it is like concentrating like hell to play chess in > > LA and then suddenly I find myself enjoying golf in Sydney – > > and there is absolutely NOTHING IN BETWEEN LA and Sydney. > > > > This is exactly how profound this void is between thoughts during > > meditation. How can I keep concentrating on chess in LA when > > the next moment I am enjoying golf in Sydney – and there is > > nothing in between? It is impossible, otherwise, it is an > exercise > > if futility. THAT IS exactly HOW PROFUND these voids are between > > thoughts, like concentration. > > > > Everything " I " try to " do " in meditation and yoga > > (and everything that is intellectual ) assumes that things are > > continuous – like effort and concentration is continuous. The > > total blackout between thoughts make it obvious that there is > > absolutely nothing continuous about thoughts. > > > > The study of thoughts tells me what physics tries to tell me: > > that thinking, and the control of thoughts and concentration and > > effort are all just thoughts. > > > > It was this study of thoughts that gives me the word maya: illusion > > or dream, fiction, hallucination. My mind or ego is this maya. > > > > To my mind thoughts are pure hallucinations that appear to be > real > > because the mind is the police and judge and jury of all of its > > thoughts. The mind is not a thought generator because it is the > > thoughts, hallucinations. The mind cannot know anything but what > it > > is: thoughts, hallucinations… The mind is always dreaming that > > it is awake. > > -=- > > So if thinking, effort and concentration and meditation, are just > > thoughts then what can I do to wake up, to be Self-realized? The > > answer is what Papaji tells me: I can do absolutely nothing because > > even the " I " – the doer -- is a thought. In Reality there > > is no doer. BUT the doer, called ego, does not know this. And > as > > he, Papaji, says: the more effort the imaginary " I " puts > > into trying to get realized the more futile it all gets because in > > Reality NOTHING ever HAPPENS. > > > > And so if the ego thinks it can think then let me play a game with > my > > ego. I can play this game by letting my ego think that life is a > > dream, maya. The theory behind this game called maya: if my ego > > thinks about dreaming long enough then it will become the dream. > > > > This pretending to be dreaming is as simple as pretending to be > > another person, like Napoleon. If I pretend that I am Napoleon long > > enough then I will be Napoleon regardless of what anyone else (in > my > > dream) might think. Pretending to be dreaming works the same. > > In a dream the subject, verb and object are the same – the > > dreamer and then dreaming and everything that is dreamed is all > the > > SAME -- JUST LIKE ADVAITA tells me maya is. > > > > So if I pretend to be dreaming then I have to also pretend that I > am > > everyone else in my dream – they, the others, only appear to > be > > different from the imaginary me. (In a dream everything is > > imaginary). And as long as my ego plays this game called dreaming > I > > will be AWAKE to the dream called maya. > > > > And when this dreaming starts to make sense then there is a JOY > > associated with this dreaming and it is called maya. This Joy or > maya > > is the Self, the Dreamer – the Unified Field -- enjoying its > > dream – the mind, ego, maya. > > > > This Joy I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS; and only an cocksure ego can > > think otherwise. > > > > -- thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the Joy called maya. 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Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > regards, > ac. > ============================= Hi ac ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. It is all just a dream – " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and then you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in my dream. the SAME Love that YOU ARE gp ======================= > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > wrote: > > About 5000 years ago sages around the Indus River, in India, used > the > > silence of meditation to study their thoughts. To make a long story > > short – they came up with everything physicists have come up with > > over the last 100 years. > > > > Over the last 100 years physicists have studied their particles in > > the same systematic and methodical manner as did the Indus River > > sages study their thoughts. > > Because of their studies, Physicists came up with Quantum Mechanics > > and Relativity and their Uncertainty Principle. Put it all > together > > and they uncovered that particles are exactly like thoughts. > > > > As with thoughts, particles are what the mind is. If the mind > wants > > waves then particles are waves, and if the mind wants particles > then > > waves are particles. And the closer the observer gets to the > > observation, the particles, the more elusive they get. And thus the > > Uncertainty Principle. And thus at close quarters particles are > not > > even particles, nor waves, but probability-clouds. Just like > > thoughts. The closer we try to get to a thought the more elusive it > > gets. > > > > Light is the perfect example of a thought:: the faster we go to > try > > and catch light the more obvious it becomes that we are standing > > still. So too with thoughts. We cannot catch thoughts mostly > because > > they are Nothing. > > -=- > > > > To understand thoughts, and then the " reality " our mind > > creates out of its thoughts, I have to study thoughts methodically > > and systematically. > > One way to study thoughts systematically and methodically is > through > > a relative vacuum of thoughts. Meditation can provide the observer > > with the needed vacuum. > > > > First: In the thoughtless silence of meditation the observer can > > observe that when thoughts come they come out of Nothing to return > > into Nothing to be Nothing. Physics tells us the same story about > its > > sub-atomic particles. > > > > Second: In thoughtless-silence it is obvious that there is > > absolutely no control of thoughts. The control of thoughts is an > > illusion the mind gives us at its gross level. This illusion is > the > > same illusion particles give us when they appear to be combined > into > > atoms and then molecules when in Reality they are not only separate > > but separated by voids called quantums. > > > > Third: there are voids or gaps between thoughts, particles. > > Physicists call these gaps quantums. Physics tells us that its > > particles can only exist in very specific energy or quantum levels. > > Between one quantum level and another there is an absolute and > total > > void. > > At the gross level the likes of atoms and molecules make quantums > > vanish but they exist in the background to make atoms and > molecules > > work the way they do. > > > > In the thoughtless Silence of meditation these gaps or quantums > > between thoughts are monumental. Only when I can understand how > > thoughts are separated with these gaps can I sort of understand > why > > Papaji keeps trying to tell me: putting effort into things like > > meditation is a total waste of time. > > Effort is a total waste of time because it is just a thought. > > > > To understand these gaps I meditate to try to Silence my mind. > > This is impossible but my ego does not know it. (I will define an > > ego as a mind that thinks it can control its thoughts – > > actions.) > > > > I read all sorts of books on meditation and yoga that tell me that > > only the likes of geniuses can concentrate strong enough to control > > their minds and thus go through all the levels of consciousness to > > end up in samadhi. > > > > Some of these experts, on meditation and samadhi, go on to tell > me > > that if I concentrate hard enough, and long enough, then my mind > > will also go through different levels of consciousness that they > > describe in detail. So this ego, called I, concentrates like hell > > not to have thoughts in meditation so it can, with enough practice > > and effort, go into samadhi. > > > > For years I practice and concentrate to focus my mind on Silence so > > it, the mind, can vanish into samadhi. > > > > But after years of practice and effort it dawns on me that Papaji > is > > right and this effort is all a total waste of time because > > this " effort " is just a thought, like thinking. > > > > When I concentrate like hell not to have thoughts, in meditation, > > something happens so routinely that it makes concentration an > > exercise in futility. > > > > In the Silence of thoughtless-meditation I try and I try to > > concentrate on no-thoughts but then there comes a void that makes > > concentration utterly futile. With practice these voids between > > thoughts become more and more profound. > > > > TO put this void into perspective: these voids between thoughts > work > > like a blackout. This void or blackout between thoughts is so > > profound that it is like concentrating like hell to play chess in > > LA and then suddenly I find myself enjoying golf in Sydney – > > and there is absolutely NOTHING IN BETWEEN LA and Sydney. > > > > This is exactly how profound this void is between thoughts during > > meditation. How can I keep concentrating on chess in LA when > > the next moment I am enjoying golf in Sydney – and there is > > nothing in between? It is impossible, otherwise, it is an > exercise > > if futility. THAT IS exactly HOW PROFUND these voids are between > > thoughts, like concentration. > > > > Everything " I " try to " do " in meditation and yoga > > (and everything that is intellectual ) assumes that things are > > continuous – like effort and concentration is continuous. The > > total blackout between thoughts make it obvious that there is > > absolutely nothing continuous about thoughts. > > > > The study of thoughts tells me what physics tries to tell me: > > that thinking, and the control of thoughts and concentration and > > effort are all just thoughts. > > > > It was this study of thoughts that gives me the word maya: illusion > > or dream, fiction, hallucination. My mind or ego is this maya. > > > > To my mind thoughts are pure hallucinations that appear to be > real > > because the mind is the police and judge and jury of all of its > > thoughts. The mind is not a thought generator because it is the > > thoughts, hallucinations. The mind cannot know anything but what > it > > is: thoughts, hallucinations… The mind is always dreaming that > > it is awake. > > -=- > > So if thinking, effort and concentration and meditation, are just > > thoughts then what can I do to wake up, to be Self-realized? The > > answer is what Papaji tells me: I can do absolutely nothing because > > even the " I " – the doer -- is a thought. In Reality there > > is no doer. BUT the doer, called ego, does not know this. And > as > > he, Papaji, says: the more effort the imaginary " I " puts > > into trying to get realized the more futile it all gets because in > > Reality NOTHING ever HAPPENS. > > > > And so if the ego thinks it can think then let me play a game with > my > > ego. I can play this game by letting my ego think that life is a > > dream, maya. The theory behind this game called maya: if my ego > > thinks about dreaming long enough then it will become the dream. > > > > This pretending to be dreaming is as simple as pretending to be > > another person, like Napoleon. If I pretend that I am Napoleon long > > enough then I will be Napoleon regardless of what anyone else (in > my > > dream) might think. Pretending to be dreaming works the same. > > In a dream the subject, verb and object are the same – the > > dreamer and then dreaming and everything that is dreamed is all > the > > SAME -- JUST LIKE ADVAITA tells me maya is. > > > > So if I pretend to be dreaming then I have to also pretend that I > am > > everyone else in my dream – they, the others, only appear to be > > different from the imaginary me. (In a dream everything is > > imaginary). And as long as my ego plays this game called dreaming > I > > will be AWAKE to the dream called maya. > > > > And when this dreaming starts to make sense then there is a JOY > > associated with this dreaming and it is called maya. This Joy or > maya > > is the Self, the Dreamer – the Unified Field -- enjoying its > > dream – the mind, ego, maya. > > > > This Joy I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS; and only an cocksure ego can > > think otherwise. > > > > -- thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the Joy called maya. 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Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " johnmp_nr " <johnmp_nr> > wrote: > > Hi Gene, > > > > I am wondering, how finally is this not nihilistic? > > > > jp > > > > ============================ > Hi jp, > MY ego called jp wonders how nihilistic is " this " to MY ego > called jp. > > Thoughts come: if " THIS " annihilates the thoughts that > separate the Dreamer from the dream then the ego called jp will > vanish to be/leave the Dreamer, ME. > > -- more thoughts from Nothing to Nothing for the JOY called maya > Yup. Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'... (Do the math). fuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > regards, > > ac. > > ============================= > Hi ac > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > It is all just a dream – " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and then > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in my > dream. > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > gp " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) fuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 - fuzzie_wuz Nisargadatta Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:57 AM Re: the blackouts between LA and Sydney Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > regards, > > ac. > > ============================= > Hi ac > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > It is all just a dream - " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and then > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in my > dream. > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > gp " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) fuzzie Take your dream and give it life. Take your life and make it your dream anna i'm gone (or at least till later) ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > > > regards, > > > ac. > > > ============================= > > Hi ac > > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > > > It is all just a dream – " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and then > > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in my > > dream. > > > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > > gp > > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) > > > > fuzzie " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (The Dreamer ) fuzzie might need Ramana for the Dreamer's thoughts -- but to the Dreamer there is no Ramana any more than there is a fuzzie - the Dreamer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > ac. > > > > ============================= > > > Hi ac > > > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > > > > > It is all just a dream – " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and > then > > > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in > my > > > dream. > > > > > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > > > gp > > > > > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (The Dreamer ) > > fuzzie might need Ramana for the Dreamer's thoughts -- but to the > Dreamer there is no Ramana any more than there is a fuzzie > > - the Dreamer The Dreamer needs Ramana and fuzzie like he needs another hole in his head... fuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > fuzzie_wuz > Nisargadatta > Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:57 AM > Re: the blackouts between LA and Sydney > > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > > > regards, > > > ac. > > > ============================= > > Hi ac > > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > > > It is all just a dream - " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and then > > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in my > > dream. > > > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > > gp > > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) > > > > fuzzie > > > > Take your dream and give it life. > > Take your life and make it your dream > > anna > > > > > > i'm gone (or at least till later) Where you goin'? Tryin' t make a dollar? You n Gary have been gettin' tardy with the fool, aintcha??? Alright, then... fuzzie greenback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2005 Report Share Posted June 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > This is a Very Good Post, GP ! > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > ac. > > > > > ============================= > > > > Hi ac > > > > ac, YOU wrote it and only MY ego called ac can think otherwise. > > > > > > > > It is all just a dream – " think " like the Dreamer that I AM and > > then > > > > you are the same Dreamer that I AM and not some imaginary ego in > > my > > > > dream. > > > > > > > > the SAME Love that YOU ARE > > > > gp > > > > > > > > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (Ramana Maharshi) > > > > > > > > > > > > fuzzie > > > > " Take life to be a dream and be done with it. " (The Dreamer ) > > > > fuzzie might need Ramana for the Dreamer's thoughts -- but to the > > Dreamer there is no Ramana any more than there is a fuzzie > > > > - the Dreamer > > > The Dreamer needs Ramana and fuzzie like he needs another hole in his > head... > > > > fuzzie ============================ except for one of MY egos: the Dreamer, Ramana and fuzzie and the hole-in-the-head, and needing, are all the same JOY called maya, this dream, these words. -- just thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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