Did Maharaj Have any succesors?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

New to the group. I'm amazed by Maharaj's teaching, it's too bad he

isn't still alive.

 

Did he have any formal succesors? I know there is Ramesh Balsekar who

was his translator (personally not very impressed by what I have heard

about him). Is there anyone else out there whose Jnani-hood was

sanctioned by him when he was alaive, was Ramesh's?

 

Thanks in advance

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> New to the group. I'm amazed by Maharaj's teaching, it's too bad he

> isn't still alive.

>

> Did he have any formal succesors? I know there is Ramesh Balsekar

who

> was his translator (personally not very impressed by what I have

heard

> about him). Is there anyone else out there whose Jnani-hood was

> sanctioned by him when he was alaive, was Ramesh's?

>

> Thanks in advance ===================================

 

" THE TRUTH IS " that " Nothing ever Happened " and " I AM, YOU ARE and

ALL IS THAT " -- everything else is your mind; or the mind is what

it thinks. That includes what you think about Ramesh or any

other " successor. "

In " your " mind the Devil can wake you up to your dreaming or Jesus

can wake you up, or Osama might be the one to wake you up, or perhaps

Bush, or drugs or booze, or even a miracle. It can make no

difference because the Self is ALL -- and is eternally Awake -- and

there is no other.

And if the mind does not wake up with successors, or drugs or booze,

then it will die like other imaginary minds and entertain the SELF no

longer with its imaginary doings.

And so there are no winners or losers in this entertainment or maya

called life because the worst thing that can happen is that we die to

wake up and the best thing that can happen is that the thought of

death kills us with laughter.

 

-- thoughts for NOW

[Guest guest]

Well supposedly nisargadatta said that Maurice Friedman was also " enlightened " .

I dont think maurice teaches though. I can send you that interview, I have it

somewhere.

 

Ryan

 

Gene Polotas <semmin wrote:

Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> New to the group. I'm amazed by Maharaj's teaching, it's too bad he

> isn't still alive.

>

> Did he have any formal succesors? I know there is Ramesh Balsekar

who

> was his translator (personally not very impressed by what I have

heard

> about him). Is there anyone else out there whose Jnani-hood was

> sanctioned by him when he was alaive, was Ramesh's?

>

> Thanks in advance ===================================

 

" THE TRUTH IS " that " Nothing ever Happened " and " I AM, YOU ARE and

ALL IS THAT " -- everything else is your mind; or the mind is what

it thinks. That includes what you think about Ramesh or any

other " successor. "

In " your " mind the Devil can wake you up to your dreaming or Jesus

can wake you up, or Osama might be the one to wake you up, or perhaps

Bush, or drugs or booze, or even a miracle. It can make no

difference because the Self is ALL -- and is eternally Awake -- and

there is no other.

And if the mind does not wake up with successors, or drugs or booze,

then it will die like other imaginary minds and entertain the SELF no

longer with its imaginary doings.

And so there are no winners or losers in this entertainment or maya

called life because the worst thing that can happen is that we die to

wake up and the best thing that can happen is that the thought of

death kills us with laughter.

 

-- thoughts for NOW

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> New to the group. I'm amazed by Maharaj's teaching, it's too bad he

> isn't still alive.

>

> Did he have any formal succesors? I know there is Ramesh Balsekar who

> was his translator (personally not very impressed by what I have

heard

> about him). Is there anyone else out there whose Jnani-hood was

> sanctioned by him when he was alaive, was Ramesh's?

>

> Thanks in advance

 

According to the Hindu tradition, Maharaj was the last of his lineage

Navnath Sampradaya but considering his teachings, the interpretation is

open. Maharaj talks about this in " I am That " recorded by Frydman:

 

Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj was part of the Navnath Sampradaya, the

lineage of the nine gurus. Maharaj himself did not stress his lineage

with most of his western devotees. However, he does speak about it in I

Am That, Page 271 Part II, chapter 97:

 

Question: I see here picture of several saints and I am told that they

are your spiritual ancestors. Who are they and how did it all begin?

 

Maharaj: We are called collectively the " Nine Masters " . The legend says

that our first teacher was the Rishi Dattatreya, the great incarnation

of the trinity of Brahman, Vishnu and Shiva. Even the `Nine Masters "

are mythological.

 

Question: What is the peculiarity of their teaching?

 

Maharaj: Its simplicity, both in theory and in practice..

 

Question: How does one become a Navnath? By initiation or by

succession?

 

Maharaj: Neither. the Nine Masters' tradition (Navnath Parampara) is

like a river—it flows into the ocean of reality and whoever enters it

is carried along.

 

Question: Does it imply acceptance by a living master belonging to the

same tradition?

 

Maharaj: Those who practice the sadhana of focusing their minds on " I

am " may feel related to others who have followed the same sadhana and

succeeded. they may decided to verbalize their sense of kinship by

calling themselves Navnaths, It gives them the pleasure of belonging to

an established lineage.

 

Question: Do they in anyway benefit by joining?

 

Maharaj: The circle of satsang, the company of saints expands as time

passes.

 

Question: Do they get hold thereby a source of power and grace from

which they would have been barred otherwise?

 

Maharaj: Power and Grace are for all and for the asking. Giving oneself

a particular name does not help. Call yourself by any name—as long as

you are intensely mindful of yourself, the accumulated obstacles to

self-knowledge are bound to be swept away.

 

Question: If I like your teaching and accept your guidance, can I call

myself a Navnath?

 

Maharaj: Please your word-addicted mind ! The name will not change you.

At least it may remind you to behave. There is a succession of gurus

and their disciples, who in turn train more disciples and thus the line

is maintained. But the continuity of tradition is informal and

voluntary. It is like a family name, but here the family is spiritual.

 

Question: Do you have to realize to join the Sampradaya?

 

Maharaj: The Navnath Sampradaya is only a tradition, a way of teaching

an practice. It does not denote a level of consciousness. If you accept

a Navnath Sampradaya teacher as your guru, you join his Sampradaya.

Usually you receive a token of his grace—a look, a touch or a word,

sometimes a vivid dream or a strong remembrance. Sometimes the only

sign of grace is a significant and rapid change in character and

behaviour.

 

Question: I know you now for some years and I meet you regularly. The

thought of you is never far from my mind. Does it make me belong to

your Sampradaya?

 

Maharaj: Your belonging is a matter of your own feeling and conviction.

After all, it is all verbal and formal. In reality there is neither

guru nor disciple, neither theory nor practice, neither ignorance nor

realization, It all depends on what you take yourself to be. Know your

self correctly, There is no substitute to self-knowledge.

 

http://nisargadatta.net/Navnath_Sampradaya.html

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

wrote:

> Hi,

>

> New to the group. I'm amazed by Maharaj's teaching, it's too bad

he

> isn't still alive.

>

> Did he have any formal succesors? I know there is Ramesh Balsekar

who

> was his translator (personally not very impressed by what I have

heard

> about him). Is there anyone else out there whose Jnani-hood was

> sanctioned by him when he was alaive, was Ramesh's?

>

> Thanks in advance

 

Namaste,

 

Maharaj had a least one enlightened disciple whom I know

of. Her name was Jean Dunn. She edited many books of

his talks. She was an American lady who lived for

a long time at Ramana Ashram, and then went to meet

Maharaj. She stayed with him for several years, and

when she left him for the last time, he placed a large

box of sweets in her hands and said to her, " Why of

all the horses in the race are you the one to win? "

 

At that time she did not have Self-knowledge. That

occurred when she returned to the States. Although

when she saw Maharaj for the last time, she had thought

she would return, he died while she was in the States,

so she never saw him again.

 

Jean Dunn lived very quietly with her grown son in a trailer

park in Vacaville, California. She had a few students who

would go and see her. I have seen a very long home video of

her, and I liked her very much, a sort of enlightened

grandmother from the old west, sort of a pioneer lady

from the prairie.

 

She pronounced Indian words with an American accent, and a

flat A sound. She smoke cigarettes continually and she

died of emphysema. She appeared very loving, and very grounded

in her Knowledge. On the video tape she receives a telephone

call from someone named Joan Brown who was living in Hawaii.

 

After hanging up from the call Jean announces, " She is

the only 'realized' one I have, (that I know of). "

 

Joan Brown, aka Ngeton, is probably in her early

sixties, and lives on Mauii where she sees

only those students who consider her as their guru.

 

I saw Ngeton several times when she used to give

satsangs in California, and I can definitely say

that she is not my guru.

 

However, I would very much have liked to have met

Jean Dunn, who was too ill to receive visitors by the

time I heard of her existence. Best wishes, Durga

[Guest guest]

Thanks a lot for the reply Durga and everyone else who replied as

well. David Godman's article was kind of depressing considering he

spent so much time in india with these people and still couldn't

quite 'get it'.

 

Namaste

 

 

> Namaste,

>

> Maharaj had a least one enlightened disciple whom I know

> of. Her name was Jean Dunn. She edited many books of

> his talks. She was an American lady who lived for

> a long time at Ramana Ashram, and then went to meet

> Maharaj. She stayed with him for several years, and

> when she left him for the last time, he placed a large

> box of sweets in her hands and said to her, " Why of

> all the horses in the race are you the one to win? "

>

> At that time she did not have Self-knowledge. That

> occurred when she returned to the States. Although

> when she saw Maharaj for the last time, she had thought

> she would return, he died while she was in the States,

> so she never saw him again.

>

> Jean Dunn lived very quietly with her grown son in a trailer

> park in Vacaville, California. She had a few students who

> would go and see her. I have seen a very long home video of

> her, and I liked her very much, a sort of enlightened

> grandmother from the old west, sort of a pioneer lady

> from the prairie.

>

> She pronounced Indian words with an American accent, and a

> flat A sound. She smoke cigarettes continually and she

> died of emphysema. She appeared very loving, and very grounded

> in her Knowledge. On the video tape she receives a telephone

> call from someone named Joan Brown who was living in Hawaii.

>

> After hanging up from the call Jean announces, " She is

> the only 'realized' one I have, (that I know of). "

>

> Joan Brown, aka Ngeton, is probably in her early

> sixties, and lives on Mauii where she sees

> only those students who consider her as their guru.

>

> I saw Ngeton several times when she used to give

> satsangs in California, and I can definitely say

> that she is not my guru.

>

> However, I would very much have liked to have met

> Jean Dunn, who was too ill to receive visitors by the

> time I heard of her existence. Best wishes, Durga

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

wrote:

> Thanks a lot for the reply Durga and everyone else who replied as

> well. David Godman's article was kind of depressing considering he

> spent so much time in india with these people and still couldn't

> quite 'get it'.

 

Namaste,

 

Godman cannot let go of the Guru. Not that it is bad in itself but he

doesn't get into anything further than Saguna Brahman.

 

I question whether Niz meant that being a Jnani was the same thing as

a Mukta......ONS...Tony.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

> wrote:

> > Thanks a lot for the reply Durga and everyone else who replied as

> > well. David Godman's article was kind of depressing considering he

> > spent so much time in india with these people and still couldn't

> > quite 'get it'.

>

> Namaste,

>

> Godman cannot let go of the Guru. Not that it is bad in itself but

he

> doesn't get into anything further than Saguna Brahman.

>

> I question whether Niz meant that being a Jnani was the same thing

as

> a Mukta......ONS...Tony.

 

Hey Tony,

 

A jnani means someone with Self-knowledge. A jivan mukta means

someone who is living liberated. Someone with Self-knowledge *is*

living liberated. The Knowledge itself *is* the liberation.

Knowledge means you know who you are. You know you are the Self.

It is your actual experience. You have recognized that you are

That. Jnanam (Knowledge) is not any other kind of knowledge.

It is not an intellectual knowledge or understanding.

 

If Maharaj actually said that about Maurice, then I would

think that Maharaj was using the word, jnani, to mean

a jivan mukta. Maharaj was Indian. He knew what the word meant.

A jivan mukta is a jnani, and vice versa.

 

And if Maharaj actually did tilak Maurice's photo along

with the photos of those gurus in his lineage when he

performed his puja, that IMO is actually quite a big

endorsement. So big in fact that I wonder if it is true.

 

Well, who knows? (David Godman?) Anyway, the book

'I am That' has inspired many and seems to hold

up. I have heard from others that Maharaj endorsed it.

 

So, as a book, it does seem to be useful. However, IMO, an actual

living teacher is superior to a book, because one can

question a teacher, and it is difficult to question a book.

 

Many people reading 'I am That' may come away with concepts

which are not correct, and which incorrect concepts cannot

be cleared up because they don't have anyone to speak

directly to about what they have taken the words to mean.

 

'Even to hear of the teachings is very difficult, very few

are even able to hear them. Of those who hear them, very

few are able to understand them. Wonderful is the teacher

who knows him/herself as That, and has the capacity to teach.

Wonderful is the student who having found the teacher has the

capacity to understand.'

 

(Paraphrased from Kathopanisad)

 

Durga

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108> wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery>

> wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , " jmsrolland " <jmsrolland>

> > wrote:

> > > Thanks a lot for the reply Durga and everyone else who replied as

> > > well. David Godman's article was kind of depressing considering he

> > > spent so much time in india with these people and still couldn't

> > > quite 'get it'.

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > Godman cannot let go of the Guru. Not that it is bad in itself but

> he

> > doesn't get into anything further than Saguna Brahman.

> >

> > I question whether Niz meant that being a Jnani was the same thing

> as

> > a Mukta......ONS...Tony.

>

> Hey Tony,

>

> A jnani means someone with Self-knowledge. A jivan mukta means

> someone who is living liberated. Someone with Self-knowledge *is*

> living liberated. The Knowledge itself *is* the liberation.

> Knowledge means you know who you are. You know you are the Self.

> It is your actual experience. You have recognized that you are

> That. Jnanam (Knowledge) is not any other kind of knowledge.

> It is not an intellectual knowledge or understanding.

>

> If Maharaj actually said that about Maurice, then I would

> think that Maharaj was using the word, jnani, to mean

> a jivan mukta. Maharaj was Indian. He knew what the word meant.

> A jivan mukta is a jnani, and vice versa.

>

> And if Maharaj actually did tilak Maurice's photo along

> with the photos of those gurus in his lineage when he

> performed his puja, that IMO is actually quite a big

> endorsement. So big in fact that I wonder if it is true.

>

> Well, who knows? (David Godman?) Anyway, the book

> 'I am That' has inspired many and seems to hold

> up. I have heard from others that Maharaj endorsed it.

>

> So, as a book, it does seem to be useful. However, IMO, an actual

> living teacher is superior to a book, because one can

> question a teacher, and it is difficult to question a book.

>

> Many people reading 'I am That' may come away with concepts

> which are not correct, and which incorrect concepts cannot

> be cleared up because they don't have anyone to speak

> directly to about what they have taken the words to mean.

>

> 'Even to hear of the teachings is very difficult, very few

> are even able to hear them. Of those who hear them, very

> few are able to understand them. Wonderful is the teacher

> who knows him/herself as That, and has the capacity to teach.

> Wonderful is the student who having found the teacher has the

> capacity to understand.'

>

> (Paraphrased from Kathopanisad)

>

> Durga

 

 

ur understanding of the term " jnani " seems correct from what i have

read. a jnani is someone who has realized the self, a very rare

occurrence. i find it interesting that frydman & dunn were declared

jnanis by the maharaj & yet there is little information regarding it.

it's as if no one took him seriously. the story about sri v. ganesan

turning down the maharaj's offer to stay with him is also telling.

ganesan's reply was he did not take the maharaj seriously.

 

joe

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " joenorwood2005 "

<joenorwood2005> wrote:

snip

 

> ur understanding of the term " jnani " seems correct from what i have

> read. a jnani is someone who has realized the self, a very rare

> occurrence. i find it interesting that frydman & dunn were declared

> jnanis by the maharaj & yet there is little information regarding

it.

> it's as if no one took him seriously. the story about sri v.

ganesan

> turning down the maharaj's offer to stay with him is also telling.

> ganesan's reply was he did not take the maharaj seriously.

>

> joe

 

Hi Joe,

 

Perhaps it is better not to make a *big deal* about

which disciples of which guru have Self-Knowledge, even

though rare. (And I'm not saying that you are doing that.)

 

I have a friend who is a jnani. Sometimes she helps

me with the questions I have. Once I was questioning

her about quantity, that is, how many disciples of

her guru had Self-knowledge. She got a bit stern

with me. " I'm not going to tell you, " she said.

(She may not even know)

 

Anyway, afterwards she telephoned and said,

" That just came out. I hope you weren't offended. "

 

I said that I wasn't.

 

She said, " The reason I didn't want to talk about it is

that when you see who you are, you see that it is natural,

it is normal, it is who you have always been, and in that

sense is not a 'big deal.' "

 

So I think for we ajnanis (those without Self-knowledge)

with our dualistic perspective, we can get hung up

on numbers and descriptions. After all duality has an infinite

number of parts, and our minds know how to count, and like to

make all sorts of distinctions.

 

In some places Self-knowledge is called 'the attainment of

the attained,' because you are already That. If you weren't

already That there would be no way you could become That.

 

It is a matter of recognition, and for that I do recommend

having a teacher, because being so experience oriented we

continually look for something other, something which is not

already present. Something " Big " Something " New " Something

" Entirely Different. "

 

Shankara has said what is really remarkable is that

our minds have taken the never changing Self, which is

experientially present at all times, to be one with, and

dependent on, those things which are constantly changing,

(moods, thoughts, emotions, the body and its qualities.)

 

Are you very drawn to the teachings of Maharaj?

 

There is a saying, " When the student is ready the

teacher appears. "

 

In some circles it is held that this is actually

a law of the creation. That the creation, the manifest

universe of multiplicity of form, held together by

an infinite number of intricate laws, has built into

it, as one of its laws, the gaining of a teacher when

the student has really seen that nothing in duality will

ever truly satisfy.

 

At that point the student may throw up his or her hands,

and then it is held that the teacher must appear.--Durga

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108> wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " joenorwood2005 "

> <joenorwood2005> wrote:

> snip

>

> > ur understanding of the term " jnani " seems correct from what i have

> > read. a jnani is someone who has realized the self, a very rare

> > occurrence. i find it interesting that frydman & dunn were declared

> > jnanis by the maharaj & yet there is little information regarding

> it.

> > it's as if no one took him seriously. the story about sri v.

> ganesan

> > turning down the maharaj's offer to stay with him is also telling.

> > ganesan's reply was he did not take the maharaj seriously.

> >

> > joe

>

> Hi Joe,

>

> Perhaps it is better not to make a *big deal* about

> which disciples of which guru have Self-Knowledge, even

> though rare. (And I'm not saying that you are doing that.)

>

> I have a friend who is a jnani. Sometimes she helps

> me with the questions I have. Once I was questioning

> her about quantity, that is, how many disciples of

> her guru had Self-knowledge. She got a bit stern

> with me. " I'm not going to tell you, " she said.

> (She may not even know)

>

> Anyway, afterwards she telephoned and said,

> " That just came out. I hope you weren't offended. "

>

> I said that I wasn't.

>

> She said, " The reason I didn't want to talk about it is

> that when you see who you are, you see that it is natural,

> it is normal, it is who you have always been, and in that

> sense is not a 'big deal.' "

>

> So I think for we ajnanis (those without Self-knowledge)

> with our dualistic perspective, we can get hung up

> on numbers and descriptions. After all duality has an infinite

> number of parts, and our minds know how to count, and like to

> make all sorts of distinctions.

>

> In some places Self-knowledge is called 'the attainment of

> the attained,' because you are already That. If you weren't

> already That there would be no way you could become That.

>

> It is a matter of recognition, and for that I do recommend

> having a teacher, because being so experience oriented we

> continually look for something other, something which is not

> already present. Something " Big " Something " New " Something

> " Entirely Different. "

>

> Shankara has said what is really remarkable is that

> our minds have taken the never changing Self, which is

> experientially present at all times, to be one with, and

> dependent on, those things which are constantly changing,

> (moods, thoughts, emotions, the body and its qualities.)

>

> Are you very drawn to the teachings of Maharaj?

>

> There is a saying, " When the student is ready the

> teacher appears. "

>

> In some circles it is held that this is actually

> a law of the creation. That the creation, the manifest

> universe of multiplicity of form, held together by

> an infinite number of intricate laws, has built into

> it, as one of its laws, the gaining of a teacher when

> the student has really seen that nothing in duality will

> ever truly satisfy.

>

> At that point the student may throw up his or her hands,

> and then it is held that the teacher must appear.--Durga

 

 

hi. there must be some misunderstanding. i never questioned anyone's

jnani-hood. i didn't ask about how many jnanis there were or what was

their description, either. i'm not sure where ur coming from with all

that. i had read some reliable sources [posted earlier] that

nisargadatta said frydman authored the book " i am that " & also that

frydman was a jnani. then u wrote & said that nisargadatta said jean

dunn was a jnani, too. this is all news to me. i had read " i am that "

years ago but this is the 1st i'd heard about frydman being the author

& being a jnani.

 

so, u have a friend who is a jnani? wow. that must be sweet. i'd be

hanging out with them all the time.

 

joe

[Guest guest]

> Namaste,

>

> Maharaj had a least one enlightened disciple whom I know

> of. Her name was Jean Dunn. She edited many books of

> his talks. She was an American lady who lived for

> a long time at Ramana Ashram, and then went to meet

> Maharaj. She stayed with him for several years, and

> when she left him for the last time, he placed a large

> box of sweets in her hands and said to her, " Why of

> all the horses in the race are you the one to win? "

>

> At that time she did not have Self-knowledge. That

> occurred when she returned to the States. Although

> when she saw Maharaj for the last time, she had thought

> she would return, he died while she was in the States,

> so she never saw him again.

>

> Jean Dunn lived very quietly with her grown son in a trailer

> park in Vacaville, California. She had a few students who

> would go and see her. I have seen a very long home video of

> her, and I liked her very much, a sort of enlightened

> grandmother from the old west, sort of a pioneer lady

> from the prairie.

>

> She pronounced Indian words with an American accent, and a

> flat A sound. She smoke cigarettes continually and she

> died of emphysema. She appeared very loving, and very grounded

> in her Knowledge. On the video tape she receives a telephone

> call from someone named Joan Brown who was living in Hawaii.

>

> After hanging up from the call Jean announces, " She is

> the only 'realized' one I have, (that I know of). "

>

> Joan Brown, aka Ngeton, is probably in her early

> sixties, and lives on Mauii where she sees

> only those students who consider her as their guru.

>

> I saw Ngeton several times when she used to give

> satsangs in California, and I can definitely say

> that she is not my guru.

>

> However, I would very much have liked to have met

> Jean Dunn, who was too ill to receive visitors by the

> time I heard of her existence. Best wishes, Durga

 

 

 

You have the greatest stories, Durga.

[Guest guest]

> I have a friend who is a jnani.

 

I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of confrontation, but

how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always intelligent

and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur> wrote:

> > I have a friend who is a jnani.

>

> I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of confrontation,

but

> how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

intelligent

> and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

 

Namaste,

 

My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

 

During those classes, it became evident to me that

she has Self-knowledge. I can't

remember if I asked her directly, or what. But I do

remember at some point in conversation or teaching that

it became evident by her replies, which were describing

her actual view. Sometimes I telephone her with

questions that I have, and she has a very good way of

explaining things.

 

The other day I asked her, " Are you aware of all of this,

(the creation) as Brahman? " And she replied, " Oh, yes.

Everything is actually shouting that at you. "

(Of course, it's not experientially evident to me or I'd

be a jnani as well)

 

Another time she and I were talking about the whether a jnani

has an identity with the body, and she said, " No, you

don't. And when you first have knowledge, it is almost

difficult to speak that way. But you do speak that way

conventionally. Because you can't say Brahman is

coming over to your house in an hour. "

 

Her husband is a jnani too. They could both

teach, but they don't. And I know of some

others, all disciples of Swami Dayananda Saraswati, and

all graduates of one of his three year teacher training

Vedanta courses, which (alas) he no longer teaches.

 

As I indicated previously, those whom I know who are jnanis

seem to say things like, " When I saw who I really am,

it was a kind of a 'duh' moment. " Things like, " Why

didn't I see this before when it is so obvious? "

 

Or, " It is kind of a shock when you realize that what the

Upanishads are talking about is 'me,' is who I have always

been. That 'I' am Brahman. "

 

I also have a friend who is a jnani, a disciple of Ranjit

Maharaj, who once said, " It was almost embarrassing that I

didn't see it before. " And in describing the moment of

recognizing his true nature, " I realized that I was

my self. "

 

All of these statements may not seem to make a lot of

sense, unless one has studied the subject a bit IMO.

 

I have another friend, a disciple of Papaji's who I think

is also a jnani, although I've never asked him, but it

seems pretty evident to me from his perspective on things

that he is.

 

All of these are good people. None of them is well-known,

or even known in any way. Those of them who teach do not

charge any money and have very few students.

 

How do you know if someone is a jnani? You don't.

But with the ones I have mentioned, it seems evident to me

from the replies that they give that they are.

Most have said that they are, and I have no reason

to doubt them.

 

As I said, my friend told me that when you see who you are

you see, that in some sense, it is not such a big deal

because it is who you have always been. And it is who everyone

and everything is.

 

At that point, you can't take credit

for it. That separate identity is not there any more.

 

But again, I think to make this 'huge' differentiation,

even though it is in a way huge, is to denigrate the

importance of it, or introduce, as it were,

some sort of artificiality, to make jnanihood the focus.

who has it, who doesn't, rather than focus on self-inquiry,

the subject itself.

 

For me, to be able to ask someone a question who

really knows the answer and can elucidate it,

or to be able to have 'real' satsang with someone is very

valuable. To have a friend who is a jnani is a

wonderful resource, especially if that person is trained to

teach. But to make too big a deal might be to put a

some type of artificial mental barrier up between that

person and myself. After all it is who I am as well.

 

All of these people have definite personalities. They aren't

sitting up in some tall chair gazing off into some

vast unknowable space. They have jobs, lives,

relationships, interests. They walk, talk, chew gum, etc.

 

In short, they are just like you and me, except that they know

they are Brahman. I know it too, but not in the same way.

Viz, they know without a shadow of a doubt because it is

their 'actual' experience. It is my actual experience

as well, but heretofore unrecognized as such. When you know

it, you do, and when you don't, you don't.

 

This is not an intellectual knowing, but an actual 'seeing'

The good news is that you can know it, because you are it.

But I do feel that it takes quite a bit of inquiry with a

very good teacher to knock off, as it were, what you had

previously taken your self to be, and actually 'know'

who you really are, and always have been.

 

So there is a very long answer to your very short question.

 

Best wishes, Durga

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108> wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur> wrote:

> > > I have a friend who is a jnani.

> >

> > I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of

confrontation,

> but

> > how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

> intelligent

> > and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

>

> Namaste,

>

> My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

> also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

> also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

>

 

********

Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

 

 

Judi

 

 

 

 

> During those classes, it became evident to me that

> she has Self-knowledge. I can't

> remember if I asked her directly, or what. But I do

> remember at some point in conversation or teaching that

> it became evident by her replies, which were describing

> her actual view. Sometimes I telephone her with

> questions that I have, and she has a very good way of

> explaining things.

>

> The other day I asked her, " Are you aware of all of this,

> (the creation) as Brahman? " And she replied, " Oh, yes.

> Everything is actually shouting that at you. "

> (Of course, it's not experientially evident to me or I'd

> be a jnani as well)

>

> Another time she and I were talking about the whether a jnani

> has an identity with the body, and she said, " No, you

> don't. And when you first have knowledge, it is almost

> difficult to speak that way. But you do speak that way

> conventionally. Because you can't say Brahman is

> coming over to your house in an hour. "

>

> Her husband is a jnani too. They could both

> teach, but they don't. And I know of some

> others, all disciples of Swami Dayananda Saraswati, and

> all graduates of one of his three year teacher training

> Vedanta courses, which (alas) he no longer teaches.

>

> As I indicated previously, those whom I know who are jnanis

> seem to say things like, " When I saw who I really am,

> it was a kind of a 'duh' moment. " Things like, " Why

> didn't I see this before when it is so obvious? "

>

> Or, " It is kind of a shock when you realize that what the

> Upanishads are talking about is 'me,' is who I have always

> been. That 'I' am Brahman. "

>

> I also have a friend who is a jnani, a disciple of Ranjit

> Maharaj, who once said, " It was almost embarrassing that I

> didn't see it before. " And in describing the moment of

> recognizing his true nature, " I realized that I was

> my self. "

>

> All of these statements may not seem to make a lot of

> sense, unless one has studied the subject a bit IMO.

>

> I have another friend, a disciple of Papaji's who I think

> is also a jnani, although I've never asked him, but it

> seems pretty evident to me from his perspective on things

> that he is.

>

> All of these are good people. None of them is well-known,

> or even known in any way. Those of them who teach do not

> charge any money and have very few students.

>

> How do you know if someone is a jnani? You don't.

> But with the ones I have mentioned, it seems evident to me

> from the replies that they give that they are.

> Most have said that they are, and I have no reason

> to doubt them.

>

> As I said, my friend told me that when you see who you are

> you see, that in some sense, it is not such a big deal

> because it is who you have always been. And it is who everyone

> and everything is.

>

> At that point, you can't take credit

> for it. That separate identity is not there any more.

>

> But again, I think to make this 'huge' differentiation,

> even though it is in a way huge, is to denigrate the

> importance of it, or introduce, as it were,

> some sort of artificiality, to make jnanihood the focus.

> who has it, who doesn't, rather than focus on self-inquiry,

> the subject itself.

>

> For me, to be able to ask someone a question who

> really knows the answer and can elucidate it,

> or to be able to have 'real' satsang with someone is very

> valuable. To have a friend who is a jnani is a

> wonderful resource, especially if that person is trained to

> teach. But to make too big a deal might be to put a

> some type of artificial mental barrier up between that

> person and myself. After all it is who I am as well.

>

> All of these people have definite personalities. They aren't

> sitting up in some tall chair gazing off into some

> vast unknowable space. They have jobs, lives,

> relationships, interests. They walk, talk, chew gum, etc.

>

> In short, they are just like you and me, except that they know

> they are Brahman. I know it too, but not in the same way.

> Viz, they know without a shadow of a doubt because it is

> their 'actual' experience. It is my actual experience

> as well, but heretofore unrecognized as such. When you know

> it, you do, and when you don't, you don't.

>

> This is not an intellectual knowing, but an actual 'seeing'

> The good news is that you can know it, because you are it.

> But I do feel that it takes quite a bit of inquiry with a

> very good teacher to knock off, as it were, what you had

> previously taken your self to be, and actually 'know'

> who you really are, and always have been.

>

> So there is a very long answer to your very short question.

>

> Best wishes, Durga

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@c...>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108>

wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur> wrote:

> > > > I have a friend who is a jnani.

> > >

> > > I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of

> confrontation,

> > but

> > > how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

> > intelligent

> > > and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

> > also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

> > also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

> >

>

> ********

> Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

> over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

> with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

>

>

> Judi

>

> ===================

Dearest Judi: I will take the divine liberty to correct your English:

 

Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga to tell you that only Judy

Rhodes can be the ONE AND ONLY real teacher... etc

 

I take this liberty directly from the gods, who keep reminding me

that Judi Rhodes is their ONE and ONLY true proxy or preacher

because all others are insane and thus need her psycho-therapists.

 

-- Alias Krishna

[Guest guest]

> >

> > ********

> > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

> > over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

> > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> >

> >

> > Judi

> >

> > ===================

> Dearest Judi: I will take the divine liberty to correct your

English:

>

> Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga to tell you that only Judy

> Rhodes can be the ONE AND ONLY real teacher... etc

>

> I take this liberty directly from the gods, who keep reminding me

> that Judi Rhodes is their ONE and ONLY true proxy or preacher

> because all others are insane and thus need her psycho-therapists.

>

> -- Alias Krishna

 

 

I couldn't have said it better. I do enjoy reading Judi because the

egotism is over the top and truly knows no bounds. Now THAT gets me

laughing )

A little light entertainment for the afternoon.

 

--Alias Parvatti

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote:

> > >

> > > ********

> > > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

> > > over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

> > > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> > >

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> > > ===================

> > Dearest Judi: I will take the divine liberty to correct your

> English:

> >

> > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga to tell you that only Judy

> > Rhodes can be the ONE AND ONLY real teacher... etc

> >

> > I take this liberty directly from the gods, who keep reminding

me

> > that Judi Rhodes is their ONE and ONLY true proxy or preacher

> > because all others are insane and thus need her psycho-

therapists.

> >

> > -- Alias Krishna

>

>

> I couldn't have said it better. I do enjoy reading Judi because

the

> egotism is over the top and truly knows no bounds.

 

 

******** Yeah, it's no " egotism " whatsoever.

 

 

 

Now THAT gets me

> laughing )

> A little light entertainment for the afternoon.

>

 

************

Your humor in the midst of all this sick egotism

is your only link to sanity. Stay with that.

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@c...>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108>

wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur> wrote:

> > > > I have a friend who is a jnani.

> > >

> > > I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of

> confrontation,

> > but

> > > how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

> > intelligent

> > > and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

> >

> > Namaste,

> >

> > My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

> > also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

> > also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

> >

>

> ********

....And take your " teachers "

> with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

>

>

> Judi

>

 

And I'm sure they'd be surprised how kind you are in person.

 

Hur

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@n...> wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes "

<judirhodes@c...>

> wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108>

> wrote:

> > > Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur>

wrote:

> > > > > I have a friend who is a jnani.

> > > >

> > > > I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of

> > confrontation,

> > > but

> > > > how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

> > > intelligent

> > > > and interesting, so I expect the answer should be interesting.

> > >

> > > Namaste,

> > >

> > > My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

> > > also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

> > > also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

> > >

> >

> > ********

> ...And take your " teachers "

> > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> >

> >

> > Judi

> >

>

> And I'm sure they'd be surprised how kind you are in person.

>

> Hur

 

*********

Ha! :-)

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@c...>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@n...> wrote:

> > Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes "

> <judirhodes@c...>

> > wrote:

> > > Nisargadatta , " Durga " <durgaji108>

> > wrote:

> > > > Nisargadatta , " niavur " <niavur>

> wrote:

> > > > > > I have a friend who is a jnani.

> > > > >

> > > > > I ask this with respect Durgaji, not in a spirit of

> > > confrontation,

> > > > but

> > > > > how do you know that she is a jnani? Your posts are always

> > > > intelligent

> > > > > and interesting, so I expect the answer should be

interesting.

> > > >

> > > > Namaste,

> > > >

> > > > My friend is a co-disciple of my Vedanta teacher (who is

> > > > also a jnani). I asked my friend if she would teach me

> > > > also, so we had some one on one Vedanta classes.

> > > >

> > >

> > > ********

> > ...And take your " teachers "

> > > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> > >

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> >

> > And I'm sure they'd be surprised how kind you are in person.

> >

> > Hur

>

> *********

> Ha! :-)

>

> Judi

 

***********

" Kindness " doesn't enter into it Hur, it's strickly about

understanding. Adulthood.

 

Judi

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes@c...>

wrote:

> Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7>

wrote:

> > > >

> > > > ********

> > > > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > > > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > > > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

> > > > over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

> > > > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > > > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Judi

> > > >

> > > > ===================

> > > Dearest Judi: I will take the divine liberty to correct your

> > English:

> > >

> > > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga to tell you that only

Judy

> > > Rhodes can be the ONE AND ONLY real teacher... etc

> > >

> > > I take this liberty directly from the gods, who keep

reminding

> me

> > > that Judi Rhodes is their ONE and ONLY true proxy or preacher

> > > because all others are insane and thus need her psycho-

> therapists.

> > >

> > > -- Alias Krishna

> >

> >

> > I couldn't have said it better. I do enjoy reading Judi because

> the

> > egotism is over the top and truly knows no bounds.

>

>

> ******** Yeah, it's no " egotism " whatsoever.

>

>

>

> Now THAT gets me

> > laughing )

> > A little light entertainment for the afternoon.

> >

>

> ************

> Your humor in the midst of all this sick egotism

> is your only link to sanity. Stay with that.

>

> Judi

 

sam: Your anger and need to control in the midst of all this sick

egotism is your only link to sanity (?)

Stay with that if you wish.

For you and Gene Polatos the egotism is classified as sick, as you

label it such, and it fuels your despising and hatred and fighting

with a strong fire and passion.

 

Whatever floats your boat. You are not more non-dualistic in this

way than the people whom you accuse so vehemently.

 

oh happy days!

[Guest guest]

I was not sure where exactly to jump in here, but I believe Maharaj

did and does have successors but not the ones who are known in the

West. When I visited Maharaj, there was a disciple who said to

me, " By the grace of my Guru, I am completely satisfied. " Therefore,I

believe that somewhere in the Mumbai area, there is a man who awoke

thirty years ago. I also believe that his translator, Mr. Suamitra

Mullarpattan could be considered a successor. However, I do not

believe that Balsekar is a true successor. There may be others who

are not putting themselve out as gurus. Not all of

Siddharameshwar'enlightened disciples were gurus. Ranjit Maharaj did

not teach until towards the end of his physical life; Bhainath

Maharaj never taught even though he spoke fluent English. Let us all

be true successors ourselves, Being and not becoming anything

extraneous.

Cathy

 

 

Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote:

> > >

> > > ********

> > > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga. Your egotism is

> > > over the top and out of bounds. And take your " teachers "

> > > with you too. Tell 'em I said so. And if they don't like

> > > it, tell 'em to come take it up with me, if they dare!

> > >

> > >

> > > Judi

> > >

> > > ===================

> > Dearest Judi: I will take the divine liberty to correct your

> English:

> >

> > Any " real " teacher would have thrown you out on your ear.

> > Disgusting! Oh, the sheer ugliness of it all! You need

> > psycho-therapy in the worst way Durga to tell you that only Judy

> > Rhodes can be the ONE AND ONLY real teacher... etc

> >

> > I take this liberty directly from the gods, who keep reminding

me

> > that Judi Rhodes is their ONE and ONLY true proxy or preacher

> > because all others are insane and thus need her psycho-

therapists.

> >

> > -- Alias Krishna

>

>

> I couldn't have said it better. I do enjoy reading Judi because

the

> egotism is over the top and truly knows no bounds. Now THAT gets

me

> laughing )

> A little light entertainment for the afternoon.

>

> --Alias Parvatti