Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 Hi Devi, this is fun we can talk in 'quotes' till the sun goes down or Judi starts barking at us..hehe > Q. I have a critical mind and a critical tongue. Can i reach the non- > dual state with these? > > A. No > > > Q.What is the best practice for controlling my critical mind and my > critical tongue? > > A.The tongue is easy to control, but the mind is hard to control. > Why are you critical of others? It is your own fear. You are > defending yourself by attacking others. Offensive defense. You hit > before one tries to hit you. The tongue doesn't function > independently. The critical mind expresses itself by critical words. .. so here is my answer to you sublingual quote: 1.Praising yourself and denigrating others. You must avoid praising yourself and, with delusion, criticising and denigrating others through wanting to gain offerings, respect or some sort of profit. Praising yourself and criticising, denigrating or complaining about others creates heavy negative karma as well as breaking this root bodhicitta vow. 15. Falsely claiming to have realised emptiness. Falsely claiming to have the full realisation of the emptiness of inherent existence of self and phenomena breaks this root vow. It is a specific form of lying, whereby you deceive others into believing that you have special attainments. It is not necessary to claim explicitly that you have high realisations to break this vow. Just implying that you have high realisations also incurs the downfall. An example would be to suggest to others that if they practise according to your instructions they will also gain great powers and spiritual attainments. Or to say, 'If you practise the three principal paths diligently you will gain similar experiences of bliss to my own!' The Buddha said that even when you have attained the paths of insight or liberation you should never openly say to others, 'I have this or that realisation' or 'I have attained this or that path'. Publicly stating such things will only cause confusion and suspicion. Cynics will believe that you are lying to improve your status and reputation, and the gullible will follow you blindly rather than because of the quality of your teachings. Deceiving other people into thinking that you have realisations when you do not is particularly dangerous. Tibetans have a poor opinion of the person who boasts about his qualities and claims to have special clairvoyance or an ability to communicate with the Buddhas. On the other hand, we have the greatest respect for the truly humble practitioner who hides his attainments and leads a quiet and simple life practising the Dharma diligently full version os bodhisattva vows http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/bodhisattva_vows.html " Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing in at someone else -- You are the one who gets burned. " ~~ Buddha ~~ > > > > What Is the Shift? > > > > Our brain and our conditioning determine how we see things, both > visually and psychologically. Most of us, for example, have seen > images in which their content seems to change suddenly, or flip, if > we stare at them long enough. A change in focus between what is > viewed as background and foreground may result in a sudden > perceptual shift. When the previously ignored background receives > attention, it may suddenly move to the foreground. > > > > The shift often referred to in Nonduality teachings, although not > at all visual, is similarly a sudden perceptual change and is also > brought about by a change in focus. Although it may be described in > different ways and with different emphasis, it is generally a shift > from a focus on the content of Awareness to a focus on Awareness > itself. It can also be described as a shift in identification, from > identifying with the content of Awareness to identifying with > Awareness itself. > > As with images, it is possible - and often necessary in the > carrying out of daily routines - to shift back and forth between > focusing on the content of Awareness and focusing on Awareness > itself. > > > > Era > > > > from 3-rd M. Gateway > > > > ps: I liked the quote by Dan Berkow: to define NonDuality is like > adding legs to a snake > > > > hah > > > > where is he besides the Ranch, does anyone knows ? > > > > > > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 era: Hi Devi, this is fun we can talk in 'quotes' till the sun goes down or Judi starts barking at us..hehe so here is my answer to you sublingual quote: 1.Praising yourself and denigrating others. devi: i'm not reading past this sentence...it's all irrelevant to me.. i've said it many times..i'm already self-realized.. theres no " sin " that you are suggesting that i have that keeps me from having Self Knowledge... those rules are for people who don't have Self-Knowledge so read them carefully yourself... You must avoid praising yourself and, with delusion, criticising and denigrating others through wanting to gain offerings, respect or some sort of profit. Praising yourself and criticising, denigrating or complaining about others creates heavy negative karma as well as breaking this root bodhicitta vow. > > 15. Falsely claiming to have realised emptiness. Falsely claiming to have the full realisation of the emptiness of inherent existence of self and phenomena breaks this root vow. It is a specific form of lying, whereby you deceive others into believing that you have special attainments. It is not necessary to claim explicitly that you have high realisations to break this vow. Just implying that you have high realisations also incurs the downfall. An example would be to suggest to others that if they practise according to your instructions they will also gain great powers and spiritual attainments. Or to say, 'If you practise the three principal paths diligently you will gain similar experiences of bliss to my own!' > The Buddha said that even when you have attained the paths of insight or liberation you should never openly say to others, 'I have this or that realisation' or 'I have attained this or that path'. Publicly stating such things will only cause confusion and suspicion. Cynics will believe that you are lying to improve your status and reputation, and the gullible will follow you blindly rather than because of the quality of your teachings. Deceiving other people into thinking that you have realisations when you do not is particularly dangerous. Tibetans have a poor opinion of the person who boasts about his qualities and claims to have special clairvoyance or an ability to communicate with the Buddhas. On the other hand, we have the greatest respect for the truly humble practitioner who hides his attainments and leads a quiet and simple life practising the Dharma diligently > > full version os bodhisattva vows > > http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/bodhisattva_vows.html > > " Holding on to anger > is like grasping a hot coal > with the intent of throwing in at someone else -- You are the one who > gets burned. " > ~~ Buddha ~~ > > > > > > > > > What Is the Shift? > > > > > > Our brain and our conditioning determine how we see things, both > > visually and psychologically. Most of us, for example, have seen > > images in which their content seems to change suddenly, or flip, if > > we stare at them long enough. A change in focus between what is > > viewed as background and foreground may result in a sudden > > perceptual shift. When the previously ignored background receives > > attention, it may suddenly move to the foreground. > > > > > > The shift often referred to in Nonduality teachings, although not > > at all visual, is similarly a sudden perceptual change and is also > > brought about by a change in focus. Although it may be described in > > different ways and with different emphasis, it is generally a shift > > from a focus on the content of Awareness to a focus on Awareness > > itself. It can also be described as a shift in identification, from > > identifying with the content of Awareness to identifying with > > Awareness itself. > > > As with images, it is possible - and often necessary in the > > carrying out of daily routines - to shift back and forth between > > focusing on the content of Awareness and focusing on Awareness > > itself. > > > > > > Era > > > > > > from 3-rd M. Gateway > > > > > > ps: I liked the quote by Dan Berkow: to define NonDuality is like > > adding legs to a snake > > > > > > hah > > > > > > where is he besides the Ranch, does anyone knows ? > > > > > > > > > > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > era: Hi Devi, this is fun we can talk in 'quotes' till the sun goes > down or Judi starts barking at us..hehe > so here is my answer to you sublingual quote: > > 1.Praising yourself and denigrating others. > > devi: i'm not reading past this sentence...it's all irrelevant to > me.. > > i've said it many times..i'm already self-realized.. > > theres no " sin " that you are suggesting that i have that keeps me > from having Self Knowledge... > Devi, you 'believe', that you know yourself, but what you demonstrate online proves the opposite: you have no idea who you are or what are you talking about, but you are combative to prove to be higher than anyone endlessly dualing in your own-dual-hell You read Meher Baba and learned about the Atman and you accepted intellectually, that we all are Atman within a human body, including 'you' BUT, than you went to mistake this aha for enlightenment and self-realization note: the Dvaita Vedantic teaching what you read has nothing to with the concept of Ramana's nondual Self. so, from here you are not Self-Realized, but self praising and hungry for approval, roaming the clubs for attention claiming your enlightenment --that is just my opinion, don't worry about it > those rules are for people who don't have Self-Knowledge so read > them carefully yourself... > wrong, they are for bodhisattvas with ethics to observ > > > > You must avoid praising yourself and, with delusion, criticising and > denigrating others through wanting to gain offerings, respect or > some sort of profit. Praising yourself and criticising, denigrating > or complaining about others creates heavy negative karma as well as > breaking this root bodhicitta vow. > > > > 15. Falsely claiming to have realised emptiness. Falsely claiming > to have the full realisation of the emptiness of inherent existence > of self and phenomena breaks this root vow. It is a specific form of > lying, whereby you deceive others into believing that you have > special attainments. It is not necessary to claim explicitly that > you have high realisations to break this vow. Just implying that you > have high realisations also incurs the downfall. An example would be > to suggest to others that if they practise according to your > instructions they will also gain great powers and spiritual > attainments. Or to say, 'If you practise the three principal paths > diligently you will gain similar experiences of bliss to my own!' > > The Buddha said that even when you have attained the paths of > insight or liberation you should never openly say to others, 'I have > this or that realisation' or 'I have attained this or that path'. > Publicly stating such things will only cause confusion and > suspicion. Cynics will believe that you are lying to improve your > status and reputation, and the gullible will follow you blindly > rather than because of the quality of your teachings. Deceiving > other people into thinking that you have realisations when you do > not is particularly dangerous. Tibetans have a poor opinion of the > person who boasts about his qualities and claims to have special > clairvoyance or an ability to communicate with the Buddhas. On the > other hand, we have the greatest respect for the truly humble > practitioner who hides his attainments and leads a quiet and simple > life practising the Dharma diligently > > > > full version os bodhisattva vows > > > > http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/bodhisattva_vows.html > > > > " Holding on to anger > > is like grasping a hot coal > > with the intent of throwing in at someone else -- You are the one > who > > gets burned. " > > ~~ Buddha ~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Is the Shift? > > > > > > > > Our brain and our conditioning determine how we see things, > both > > > visually and psychologically. Most of us, for example, have seen > > > images in which their content seems to change suddenly, or flip, > if > > > we stare at them long enough. A change in focus between what is > > > viewed as background and foreground may result in a sudden > > > perceptual shift. When the previously ignored background > receives > > > attention, it may suddenly move to the foreground. > > > > > > > > The shift often referred to in Nonduality teachings, although > not > > > at all visual, is similarly a sudden perceptual change and is > also > > > brought about by a change in focus. Although it may be described > in > > > different ways and with different emphasis, it is generally a > shift > > > from a focus on the content of Awareness to a focus on Awareness > > > itself. It can also be described as a shift in identification, > from > > > identifying with the content of Awareness to identifying with > > > Awareness itself. > > > > As with images, it is possible - and often necessary in the > > > carrying out of daily routines - to shift back and forth between > > > focusing on the content of Awareness and focusing on Awareness > > > itself. > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > from 3-rd M. Gateway > > > . 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Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 oh ! btw I believe, that everyone is already enlightened, except you Devi heheh I'm sorry... you can prove me otherwise any time but may I keep this opinion until and can we still be friends ? > > era: Hi Devi, this is fun we can talk in 'quotes' till the sun goes > > down or Judi starts barking at us..hehe > > so here is my answer to you sublingual quote: > > > > 1.Praising yourself and denigrating others. > > > > devi: i'm not reading past this sentence...it's all irrelevant to > > me.. > > > > i've said it many times..i'm already self-realized.. > > > > theres no " sin " that you are suggesting that i have that keeps me > > from having Self Knowledge... > > > > > Devi, you 'believe', that you know yourself, but what you demonstrate online proves the opposite: you have no idea who you are or what are you talking about, but you are combative to prove to be higher than anyone endlessly dualing in your own-dual-hell > > You read Meher Baba and learned about the Atman and you accepted intellectually, that we all are Atman within a human body, including 'you' BUT, than you went to mistake this aha for enlightenment and self-realization > > note: the Dvaita Vedantic teaching what you read has nothing to with the concept of Ramana's nondual Self. > > so, from here you are not Self-Realized, but self praising and hungry for approval, roaming the clubs for attention claiming your enlightenment > > --that is just my opinion, don't worry about it > > > > those rules are for people who don't have Self-Knowledge so read > > them carefully yourself... > > > > > wrong, they are for bodhisattvas > with ethics to observ > > > > > > > > > You must avoid praising yourself and, with delusion, criticising and > > denigrating others through wanting to gain offerings, respect or > > some sort of profit. Praising yourself and criticising, denigrating > > or complaining about others creates heavy negative karma as well as > > breaking this root bodhicitta vow. > > > > > > 15. Falsely claiming to have realised emptiness. Falsely claiming > > to have the full realisation of the emptiness of inherent existence > > of self and phenomena breaks this root vow. It is a specific form of > > lying, whereby you deceive others into believing that you have > > special attainments. It is not necessary to claim explicitly that > > you have high realisations to break this vow. Just implying that you > > have high realisations also incurs the downfall. An example would be > > to suggest to others that if they practise according to your > > instructions they will also gain great powers and spiritual > > attainments. Or to say, 'If you practise the three principal paths > > diligently you will gain similar experiences of bliss to my own!' > > > The Buddha said that even when you have attained the paths of > > insight or liberation you should never openly say to others, 'I have > > this or that realisation' or 'I have attained this or that path'. > > Publicly stating such things will only cause confusion and > > suspicion. Cynics will believe that you are lying to improve your > > status and reputation, and the gullible will follow you blindly > > rather than because of the quality of your teachings. Deceiving > > other people into thinking that you have realisations when you do > > not is particularly dangerous. Tibetans have a poor opinion of the > > person who boasts about his qualities and claims to have special > > clairvoyance or an ability to communicate with the Buddhas. On the > > other hand, we have the greatest respect for the truly humble > > practitioner who hides his attainments and leads a quiet and simple > > life practising the Dharma diligently > > > > > > full version os bodhisattva vows > > > > > > http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/bodhisattva_vows.html > > > > > > " Holding on to anger > > > is like grasping a hot coal > > > with the intent of throwing in at someone else -- You are the one > > who > > > gets burned. " > > > ~~ Buddha ~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Is the Shift? > > > > > > > > > > Our brain and our conditioning determine how we see things, > > both > > > > visually and psychologically. Most of us, for example, have seen > > > > images in which their content seems to change suddenly, or flip, > > if > > > > we stare at them long enough. A change in focus between what is > > > > viewed as background and foreground may result in a sudden > > > > perceptual shift. When the previously ignored background > > receives > > > > attention, it may suddenly move to the foreground. > > > > > > > > > > The shift often referred to in Nonduality teachings, although > > not > > > > at all visual, is similarly a sudden perceptual change and is > > also > > > > brought about by a change in focus. Although it may be described > > in > > > > different ways and with different emphasis, it is generally a > > shift > > > > from a focus on the content of Awareness to a focus on Awareness > > > > itself. It can also be described as a shift in identification, > > from > > > > identifying with the content of Awareness to identifying with > > > > Awareness itself. > > > > > As with images, it is possible - and often necessary in the > > > > carrying out of daily routines - to shift back and forth between > > > > focusing on the content of Awareness and focusing on Awareness > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > from 3-rd M. Gateway > > > > . 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Guest guest Posted August 21, 2005 Report Share Posted August 21, 2005 era: Devi, you 'believe', that you know yourself, devi:you can think that if you like era:but what you demonstrate online proves the opposite: devi: it seems that way to you era: you have no idea who you are or what are you talking about, devi:you can think that if it makes you feel good era:but you are combative to prove to be higher than anyone endlessly dualing in your own-dual-hell devi: thats your point of view as seen from a critical *ego* era: You read Meher Baba and learned about the Atman and you accepted intellectually, that we all are Atman within a human body, including 'you' BUT, than you went to mistake this aha for enlightenment and self-realization devi: again, thats your limited knowledge of me...your point of view..your opinion...and sure, you can have your opinion of me, i have my opinion of you and it's not very flattering either... but you see what this has created?..we are banned from guru ratings..because i can't stand the way you treat me....and i suggested to sarlo that he ban both of us until you correct your behavior either by ignoring me or just being polite.. do you want back in to guru ratings? era: note: the Dvaita Vedantic teaching what you read has nothing to with the concept of Ramana's nondual Self. devi: i've read hundreds of books and delved into many teachings..your knowledge of me is extremely limited..and so your opinions are completely unfounded and just plain stupid.. era: so, from here you are not Self-Realized, but self praising and hungry for approval, roaming the clubs for attention claiming your enlightenment > > --that is just my opinion, don't worry about it devi: i don't worry about what you think of me, i'm concerned with the way you treat me in the clubs....and the fact that your behavior gets yourself banned (from 4 0r 5 clubs in the past becasue of your behavior towards me) and now myself also... because of your behavior towards me...not my behavior towards you... > > > those rules are for people who don't have Self-Knowledge so read > > them carefully yourself... > > > > > wrong, they are for bodhisattvas > with ethics to observ devi: you can tell yourself that...but people with self-knowledge are generally beyond rules and act from a spontaneos force of nature that until you are there have no idea about....so...how about following some rules now era...like..stop trying to hurt me....it just always comes back on to you....and you will keep getting us banned from clubs until you learn your lesson. > > > > > > > > > You must avoid praising yourself and, with delusion, criticising and > > denigrating others through wanting to gain offerings, respect or > > some sort of profit. Praising yourself and criticising, denigrating > > or complaining about others creates heavy negative karma as well as > > breaking this root bodhicitta vow. > > > > > > 15. Falsely claiming to have realised emptiness. Falsely claiming > > to have the full realisation of the emptiness of inherent existence > > of self and phenomena breaks this root vow. It is a specific form of > > lying, whereby you deceive others into believing that you have > > special attainments. It is not necessary to claim explicitly that > > you have high realisations to break this vow. Just implying that you > > have high realisations also incurs the downfall. An example would be > > to suggest to others that if they practise according to your > > instructions they will also gain great powers and spiritual > > attainments. Or to say, 'If you practise the three principal paths > > diligently you will gain similar experiences of bliss to my own!' > > > The Buddha said that even when you have attained the paths of > > insight or liberation you should never openly say to others, 'I have > > this or that realisation' or 'I have attained this or that path'. > > Publicly stating such things will only cause confusion and > > suspicion. Cynics will believe that you are lying to improve your > > status and reputation, and the gullible will follow you blindly > > rather than because of the quality of your teachings. Deceiving > > other people into thinking that you have realisations when you do > > not is particularly dangerous. Tibetans have a poor opinion of the > > person who boasts about his qualities and claims to have special > > clairvoyance or an ability to communicate with the Buddhas. On the > > other hand, we have the greatest respect for the truly humble > > practitioner who hides his attainments and leads a quiet and simple > > life practising the Dharma diligently > > > > > > full version os bodhisattva vows > > > > > > http://buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/bodhisattva_vows.html > > > > > > " Holding on to anger > > > is like grasping a hot coal > > > with the intent of throwing in at someone else -- You are the one > > who > > > gets burned. " > > > ~~ Buddha ~~ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What Is the Shift? > > > > > > > > > > Our brain and our conditioning determine how we see things, > > both > > > > visually and psychologically. Most of us, for example, have seen > > > > images in which their content seems to change suddenly, or flip, > > if > > > > we stare at them long enough. A change in focus between what is > > > > viewed as background and foreground may result in a sudden > > > > perceptual shift. When the previously ignored background > > receives > > > > attention, it may suddenly move to the foreground. > > > > > > > > > > The shift often referred to in Nonduality teachings, although > > not > > > > at all visual, is similarly a sudden perceptual change and is > > also > > > > brought about by a change in focus. Although it may be described > > in > > > > different ways and with different emphasis, it is generally a > > shift > > > > from a focus on the content of Awareness to a focus on Awareness > > > > itself. It can also be described as a shift in identification, > > from > > > > identifying with the content of Awareness to identifying with > > > > Awareness itself. > > > > > As with images, it is possible - and often necessary in the > > > > carrying out of daily routines - to shift back and forth between > > > > focusing on the content of Awareness and focusing on Awareness > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > from 3-rd M. Gateway > > > > . 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Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 oh ! btw I believe, that everyone is already enlightened, except you Devi heheh I'm sorry... you can prove me otherwise any time > > > but may I keep this opinion until and can we still be friends ? devi: you can keep you opinions of me for all eternity..i'll never try and prove anything to you, you get what you deserve from me and that is up to you...so if you want and deserve ignorance from me that's just what you get...you want and deserve the truth from me you'll get that too....it's up to you...it's your choice... so now, what is a friend? and how do friends treat each other..i don't think you know. with love and kindness?, with compassion? with encouragement? do they seek to find the truths about each other do they agree to disagree do they try and humiliate each other do they try and turn others against each other do they seek to find the negative qualities in each other what...? with a friend like you who needs enemies i don't want your friendship i don't want your respect all i want from you is for you to leave me alone.... can you do that? i don't think your ignorance will let you > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 - devianandi Nisargadatta Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:07 PM Re: Shift to NonDuality/ Devi oh ! btw I believe, that everyone is already enlightened, except you Devi heheh I'm sorry... you can prove me otherwise any time > > > but may I keep this opinion until and can we still be friends ? devi: you can keep you opinions of me for all eternity..i'll never try and prove anything to you, you get what you deserve from me and that is up to you...so if you want and deserve ignorance from me that's just what you get...you want and deserve the truth from me you'll get that too....it's up to you...it's your choice... so now, what is a friend? and how do friends treat each other..i don't think you know. with love and kindness?, with compassion? with encouragement? do they seek to find the truths about each other do they agree to disagree do they try and humiliate each other do they try and turn others against each other do they seek to find the negative qualities in each other what...? with a friend like you who needs enemies i don't want your friendship i don't want your respect all i want from you is for you to leave me alone.... can you do that? i don't think your ignorance will let you Hey Girlfriends, There's a thin red line drawn between friends and enemies crossed by who Knows Who loves you, a very close Friend. (being friends with Oneself is not creating any more enemies) Just me, your friendly neighborhood spider-woman ;-) > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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