[Nonduality Salon] What gets enlightened?

[Guest guest]

On Aug 29, 2005, at 2:51 AM, NondualitySalon wrote:

 

> What gets Enlightened? Q to Jerry Bruce Greg & anyone with

> time

>

> I got 2 answers sofar, but I'm still looking for input please..

>

> What gets Enlightened ?

>  

> Keeping in mind Bhagava's enlightened cow, Lakshmi; I am wondering if

> the intellect gets enlightened in humans..?

>>

>> I don't know who are the neo-advaitins either.. I was thinking of

>> Wayne Liquirman http://advaita.org and also of Ramesh Balsekar.. he

>> stesses that there is 'no-free will'

>>

>> and both say, that there is nothing to attain because " we are already

>> it "

>>

>> pondering in these notions, I was wondering if all animals are also a

>> part of the Brahman, of Ramana's non-divided " Self " just as much as

>> we humans are..so they also could be all enlightened.. or is the

>> intellect the part of the

> consciousness of man what gets enlightened ?

>

> I just remembered, that Nisargadatta Maharaj used the term " Awareness "

> instead of god..

>

> well, my dog is sure aware...

> and he is part of this timeless boundless Awareness..

>>

>>

>>

>>> H: According to traditional Hinduism, Jainism, and

>>> Buddhism, one has to attain a human birth in order to

>>> be enlightened. Sri Ramana, although born as a Hindu,

>>> was not bound by any tradition. Bhagavan was especially

>>> kind to animals and did not like the devotees chasing

>>> them away. He stated explicitly that Lakshmi the cow

>>> had attained Mukti (liberation). He did not make such

>>> comments about all animals. He had made a similar

>>> comment regarding his mother as well when she passed

>>> away. A few times Bhagavan remarked that sometimes

>>> Siddhas (perfected yogis) roam in the area in the guise

>>> of animals and come to visit him.

>

>

> R C:  

>

> Good question. How can it be the intellect that is enlightned?

>

> The sages say that enlightenment is standing AS the identity of That,

> the Absolute, God, Barhman, etc.

> The say that this is totally beyond anything that is a body

> experience.

>

> The speak of the Absolute as vast, without beginning and end,

> timeless, etc. How can a body or an intellect stand as That?

>

> At the retreat today, Nome was reading from Updadesa Saram. The first

> verse says what is also said by the Bhagavad Gita, that Self-

> realization is not brought about through action. And by action is

> mean act, word or thought.

>

> Self-realization is brought about by knowledge. This knowledge is not

> cognative intellectual knowledge,

> but is knowledge at the same level that you know that you exist.

>

> Practice starts out as action: R inquires. Then the intent takes the

> inquiry beyond the mind. There are no thoughts. But the intent to go

> deep is still there. This intent is the desire for happiness, the

> desire for liberation. This intent cannot be anything mental, since it

> is present even when the mind is quiet.

>

> So Self-realization is real, but is not brought about by action, and

> is not something of the limited body. How can the unlimited come from

> the limited?

>

> ~~~~~~~~~

> do you have any further thoughts on this you care to share with us ?

>

>

> Era

>

 

P; OK! I got the time to play. It depends how we define enlightenment,

doesn't it? If you define enlightenment as a superhuman state of total

power and knowledge, then the answer is, no one. There isn't such a

state to be had, at least, not yet, on this planet. Maybe one day in the

distant future technology will deliver something close to that. Maybe

in another galaxy far away, there are such beings, but not here,

not now!

 

If you define enlightenment as lack of a sense of separation, as

complete perceptual wholeness without the duality of self or other,

then few human brains enjoy that state except for small children.

And then, we can say that with that definition all animals are

enlightened.

 

If we define enlightenment as total ontological gnosis ( complete

knowledge of Being) then only certain human brains can attain

that. And who gets enlightened? The Beingness, the One, The

Godhead, Existence as an X gets to know itself briefly through

a human brain. To understand this we must realize that there

can be no knowledge without duality, so the One doesn't know

itself it its pure Oneness. To know itself it needs the false image

of an illusory other. In this image, it gets a glimpse of its true

beingness. This gnosis is called enlightenment, and it last as long

as the brain last. It's Lela, cosmic play, cosmic narcissism. The One,

really, doesn't need anything, not even to know itself.

 

Pete