Guest guest Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 ------------------------ Q: I have also read that the answer is beyond the mind, but how do you get beyond the mind? Stephen: The mind is the thinking process. Can you get beyond the thinking process? What are you? The mind arises in you, right? Are you the thinking process, or are you aware of the thinking process? Make this practical right now. These words represent thoughts. Do you see them? Do you see your own thoughts arising in response to these words? Thoughts are arising in you now, right? Are you aware of the thoughts, the thinking process which is the mind? Yes? You are beyond the mind now. You have always been beyond the mind! Right now, experience yourself as awareness. Notice your surroundings; notice the chair you're sitting in; the sounds in the background; the temperature of the room; the thoughts that arise; the sensations in the body. You are pure awareness. Awareness is not a thought, feeling or sensation. Awareness cannot be grasped by the mind or body. The mind and body arise in awareness. The body and mind are always changing. Awareness is always here and now, unchanged, unaffected, and peaceful. Knowing yourself as awareness, RIGHT NOW, you know yourself as the peace that you were seeking by using your mind. There is no peace in the mind. There is no problem with awareness. Stephen Wingate http://livinginpeace-thenaturalstate.com/correspondence.htm ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stephen Wingate " <stephenwingate11> wrote: > ------------------------ > > Q: I have also read that the answer is beyond the mind, but how do > you get beyond the mind? > > Stephen: The mind is the thinking process. Can you get beyond the > thinking process? What are you? > > The mind arises in you, right? Are you the thinking process, or are > you aware of the thinking process? > > Make this practical right now. These words represent thoughts. Do > you see them? Do you see your own thoughts arising in response to > these words? Thoughts are arising in you now, right? Are you aware > of the thoughts, the thinking process which is the mind? Yes? You > are beyond the mind now. You have always been beyond the mind! > > Right now, experience yourself as awareness. Notice your > surroundings; notice the chair you're sitting in; the sounds in the > background; the temperature of the room; the thoughts that arise; > the sensations in the body. You are pure awareness. Awareness is not > a thought, feeling or sensation. Awareness cannot be grasped by the > mind or body. The mind and body arise in awareness. The body and > mind are always changing. Awareness is always here and now, > unchanged, unaffected, and peaceful. > > Knowing yourself as awareness, RIGHT NOW, you know yourself as the > peace that you were seeking by using your mind. There is no peace in > the mind. There is no problem with awareness. > > Stephen Wingate > http://livinginpeace-thenaturalstate.com/correspondence.htm > > ------ Awareness is indeed not the same as thoughts and the body. Awareness is not moving. We could even say that we have never been aware in the past!!! Can you see the possibility of that? You have never been aware in the past. What we call the past is a memory, a timeless memory. Sure, memories contain time tracks and feelings of time passing, but not time itself! Prove to me that you have been aware in the past. You can't! You can say that, " look I painted this picture yesterday, do you think I did it unaware? Do you think I did not eat lunch half an hour ago? I have a stain on my shirt to prove it! " Then I will say: no, you have no proof that you have ever been aware in the past. A memory is not proof of actual time. But then you may say: " Are you telling me that there is no past, that the twin towers called the World Trade Center never have existed. " I would say: there IS a past, but that past is created NOW in zero " seconds " . The Big Bang happens NOW. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Stephen, If you wouldn't repeat all that crap you have read about awareness, what then are you, what is this " you " ? Pure awareness ? What a nonsense. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stephen Wingate " <stephenwingate11> wrote: > ------------------------ > > Q: I have also read that the answer is beyond the mind, but how do > you get beyond the mind? > > Stephen: The mind is the thinking process. Can you get beyond the > thinking process? What are you? > > The mind arises in you, right? Are you the thinking process, or are > you aware of the thinking process? > > Make this practical right now. These words represent thoughts. Do > you see them? Do you see your own thoughts arising in response to > these words? Thoughts are arising in you now, right? Are you aware > of the thoughts, the thinking process which is the mind? Yes? You > are beyond the mind now. You have always been beyond the mind! > > Right now, experience yourself as awareness. Notice your > surroundings; notice the chair you're sitting in; the sounds in the > background; the temperature of the room; the thoughts that arise; > the sensations in the body. You are pure awareness. Awareness is not > a thought, feeling or sensation. Awareness cannot be grasped by the > mind or body. The mind and body arise in awareness. The body and > mind are always changing. Awareness is always here and now, > unchanged, unaffected, and peaceful. > > Knowing yourself as awareness, RIGHT NOW, you know yourself as the > peace that you were seeking by using your mind. There is no peace in > the mind. There is no problem with awareness. > > Stephen Wingate > http://livinginpeace-thenaturalstate.com/correspondence.htm > > ------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stephen Wingate " <stephenwingate11> wrote: > ------------------------ > > Q: I have also read that the answer is beyond the mind, but how do > you get beyond the mind? > > Stephen: The mind is the thinking process. Can you get beyond the > thinking process? What are you? > > The mind arises in you, right? Are you the thinking process, or are > you aware of the thinking process? > > Make this practical right now. These words represent thoughts. Do > you see them? Do you see your own thoughts arising in response to > these words? Thoughts are arising in you now, right? Are you aware > of the thoughts, the thinking process which is the mind? Yes? You > are beyond the mind now. You have always been beyond the mind! > > Right now, experience yourself as awareness. Notice your > surroundings; notice the chair you're sitting in; the sounds in the > background; the temperature of the room; the thoughts that arise; > the sensations in the body. You are pure awareness. Awareness is not > a thought, feeling or sensation. Awareness cannot be grasped by the > mind or body. The mind and body arise in awareness. The body and > mind are always changing. Awareness is always here and now, > unchanged, unaffected, and peaceful. > > Knowing yourself as awareness, RIGHT NOW, you know yourself as the > peace that you were seeking by using your mind. There is no peace in > the mind. There is no problem with awareness. > > Stephen Wingate > http://livinginpeace-thenaturalstate.com/correspondence.htm > > ------ Hello Stephen, do you believe that anybody could....keep on " experiencing " awareness..... in making full time the " difference " of the thinking mind....and " awareness " ......? your description of " awareness " is nearly same than the one of " Meta thinking " ....any difference? it reminds me somebody who tried to sell nice dreams....in the life dream....that Is only a dream..... i believe that your kind of " awareness " is like a " technique " .....as for example meditation.......which slowly let disappear the illusion and connection to this " thinking mind " .....and so also the attached Karma... there is as long this busy " thinking mind " that you can watch with " awareness " ....as there is some Karma which need to get destroyed.....by real being.... this real being...the Self..........is " aware " of the nothingness.........of peace......of detachment from illusions and so also to the.... " thinking mind " .......or whatever forms (there is not much difference between the appearing forms and thoughts........thoughts are related to forms....and all are the mind play....) realized persons tell that it's all about to have a peaceful mind......to enter in meditation....and to Feel " who and what " you realy are..... your technique of " awareness " seem to be different........ maybe it let the ego-mind for some moments in peace.....let the ego mind falling asleep for some moments..... i hope that your get realy peace from your ego-mind Regards Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Stephen Wingate " > <stephenwingate11> wrote: > > ------------------------ > > > > Q: I have also read that the answer is beyond the mind, but how do > > you get beyond the mind? > > > > Stephen: The mind is the thinking process. Can you get beyond the > > thinking process? What are you? > > > > The mind arises in you, right? Are you the thinking process, or are > > you aware of the thinking process? > > > > Make this practical right now. These words represent thoughts. Do > > you see them? Do you see your own thoughts arising in response to > > these words? Thoughts are arising in you now, right? Are you aware > > of the thoughts, the thinking process which is the mind? Yes? You > > are beyond the mind now. You have always been beyond the mind! > > > > Right now, experience yourself as awareness. Notice your > > surroundings; notice the chair you're sitting in; the sounds in the > > background; the temperature of the room; the thoughts that arise; > > the sensations in the body. You are pure awareness. Awareness is > not > > a thought, feeling or sensation. Awareness cannot be grasped by the > > mind or body. The mind and body arise in awareness. The body and > > mind are always changing. Awareness is always here and now, > > unchanged, unaffected, and peaceful. > > > > Knowing yourself as awareness, RIGHT NOW, you know yourself as the > > peace that you were seeking by using your mind. There is no peace > in > > the mind. There is no problem with awareness. > > > > Stephen Wingate > > http://livinginpeace-thenaturalstate.com/correspondence.htm > > > > ------ > > Hello Stephen, > > do you believe that anybody could....keep on " experiencing " > awareness..... > in making full time the " difference " of the thinking > mind....and " awareness " ......? > > your description of " awareness " is nearly same than the one of " Meta > thinking " ....any difference? I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a state, is still about content. The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. al. > > it reminds me somebody who tried to sell nice dreams....in the life > dream....that Is only a dream..... > > i believe that your kind of " awareness " is like a " technique " .....as > for example meditation.......which slowly let disappear the illusion > and connection to this " thinking mind " .....and so also the attached > Karma... > > there is as long this busy " thinking mind " that you can watch > with " awareness " ....as there is some Karma which need to get > destroyed.....by real being.... > > this real being...the Self..........is " aware " of the > nothingness.........of peace......of detachment from illusions and so > also to the.... " thinking mind " .......or whatever forms > > (there is not much difference between the appearing forms and > thoughts........thoughts are related to forms....and all are the mind > play....) > > realized persons tell that it's all about to have a peaceful > mind......to enter in meditation....and to Feel " who and what " you > realy are..... > > your technique of " awareness " seem to be different........ > maybe it let the ego-mind for some moments in peace.....let the ego > mind falling asleep for some moments..... > > i hope that your get realy peace from your ego-mind > > Regards > > Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > state, is still about content. > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > al. > > > Hi al., i agree with your words...... i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of nothingness...... the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to anything...... because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no attachment to any illusions enjoying the Self Regards Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Anders, Nothing changed, what you are writing is still the same nonsense I am used from you since ever. The old hangup: You take thinking for representing the real and you are still, as ever, identified with thought as being you (which inevitably gives thought an enormous weight). Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > state, is still about content. > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > al. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Werner, it's not about believing....it's about living what i believe.... if i would tell " thinking " instead of believing....you would tell that this are thoughts only... so this peace is real....don't worry about if i tell about no reaction......i don't talk about body/mind awareness but about Self awareness wish you peace Marc Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Dennis, > > All your belief in " the endless peace in awareness (why capital > letter " A " , like " G " in God ?) whill be seen just as a belief when > you got some tooth ache or your wife has run away with another man. > > Why this sticking to beliefs ? Is it to escape the pain of living ? > > Then: > Body/mind will always react, it is just made for that, and that will > never change nor end. Your dream to be free of reactions is just > another reaction and so remains a dream. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > i agree with your words...... > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > nothingness...... > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > anything...... > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to > react > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > attachment to any illusions > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > Regards > > > > Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Werner, al. wrote: " The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. " i think and believe ...(or whatever you prefer).......that you are the observed observer he was writing about.... the subject is " how to get behind the mind " .... and not.... " how to use my mind " Regards Marc Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Nothing changed, what you are writing is still the same nonsense I am > used from you since ever. > > The old hangup: You take thinking for representing the real and you > are still, as ever, identified with thought as being you (which > inevitably gives thought an enormous weight). > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > connects > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > state, is still about content. > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > al. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > state, is still about content. > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > al. > > > Hi al., i agree with your words...... i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of nothingness...... the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to anything...... because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no attachment to any illusions enjoying the Self Regards Marc So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean Marc is BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love is BLISS. hmmm is Marc enjoying This? ;-) ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > state, is still about content. > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > al. > > > > > > Hi al., > > i agree with your words...... > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > nothingness...... > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > anything...... > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > attachment to any illusions > > enjoying the Self > > Regards > > Marc > > > So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean Marc is BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love > is BLISS. hmmm > > is Marc enjoying This? > > ;-) ....i'm fine, thanks > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:59 AM Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > state, is still about content. > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > al. > > > > > > Hi al., > > i agree with your words...... > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > nothingness...... > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > anything...... > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > attachment to any illusions > > enjoying the Self > > Regards > > Marc > > > So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean Marc is BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love > is BLISS. hmmm > > is Marc enjoying This? > > ;-) ...i'm fine, thanks and Werner is? > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:59 AM > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM > > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > connects > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > Simple > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such > a > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > observer. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > nothingness...... > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > anything...... > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to > react > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > attachment to any illusions > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > > > > So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean Marc is > BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love > > is BLISS. hmmm > > > > is Marc enjoying This? > > > > ;-) > > ...i'm fine, thanks > > > and Werner is? Werner too....like everybody is we are all fine....except the ego-mind who maybe " think " or " feel " or " believe " or....different no? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 - dennis_travis33 Nisargadatta Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:10 AM Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:59 AM > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM > > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > connects > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > Simple > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such > a > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > observer. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > nothingness...... > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > anything...... > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to > react > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > attachment to any illusions > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > > > > So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean Marc is > BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love > > is BLISS. hmmm > > > > is Marc enjoying This? > > > > ;-) > > ...i'm fine, thanks > > > and Werner is? Werner too....like everybody is we are all fine....except the ego-mind who maybe " think " or " feel " or " believe " or....different no? seems exactly so...;-) are we blissed out? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > dennis_travis33 > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 6:10 AM > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > - > > dennis_travis33 > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 5:59 AM > > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > - > > > dennis_travis33 > > > Nisargadatta > > > Wednesday, September 21, 2005 4:26 AM > > > Re: How Do You Get Beyond The Mind? > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like > thoughts > > connects > > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > > Simple > > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is > such > > a > > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > > observer. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > > nothingness...... > > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " > to > > > anything...... > > > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore > to > > react > > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are > no > > > attachment to any illusions > > > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > So, when Marc no longer beLIEves anything, does that mean > Marc is > > BEING everything and that is Love, and being Love > > > is BLISS. hmmm > > > > > > is Marc enjoying This? > > > > > > ;-) > > > > ...i'm fine, thanks > > > > > > and Werner is? > > Werner too....like everybody is > > we are all fine....except the ego-mind who maybe " think " or " feel " > or " believe " or....different > > no? > > > seems exactly so...;-) > > are we blissed out? > > > > > > " blissed out " ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change > your > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My > Groups: > > > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > state, is still about content. > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > al. > > > > > > Hi al., > > i agree with your words...... > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > nothingness...... > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > anything...... > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > attachment to any illusions > > enjoying the Self > > Regards > > Marc I think we can practice what I call Integral Time in order to contact being in a more balanced way if we are trapped too much in thought, as many people are. Integral time has primary to do with the upper left quadrant (in Ken Wilbers' model), but also has effect on the lower left quadrant and both right quadrants are indirectly affected by it. Integral time is a balance between psychological time and awareness. Psychological time is the way we think and feel about time in a subjective manner. Awareness is our sense of being in the present moment. When psychological time occupies too much of ourselves then we lose contact with our body and our physical senses. This means that our awareness has become too trapped in thinking about past and future. Integral time is simply the balancing our awareness between thinking and direct awareness of body and physical senses. When there is imbalance, when psychological time dominates, then there is a conflict between our direct present moment awareness, which we can call being (note that this being is not the same as the nondual Being), and our thinking. One hypothesis is that when we have balance between thinking and being, then negative emotions are reduced because negative emotions are caused by the conflict between thinking and being. In practical terms this means that we move awareness more to the center between being and thinking. This creates a change in our sense of will. We can call it integral will instead of thought-based will. Integral will is the balance between wanting what is now and wanting things in the future. When there is an imbalance, then our will is primarily thought-based and too much attention is focused on the future. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Nothing changed, what you are writing is still the same nonsense I am > used from you since ever. > > The old hangup: You take thinking for representing the real and you > are still, as ever, identified with thought as being you (which > inevitably gives thought an enormous weight). > > Werner Hi Werner! Yeah, but I want to understand how thinking operates. And I have a very simple measurement for seeing how much trapped one is in thinking. The degree of how much we experience bodily senses and our physical senses tells us how much trapped we are in thought and also how much inner conflict there is between (direct) being and thinking. My idea is that if we have a balance there is inner peace. One cannot fool oneself here. Is there true inner peace? I think that question is as effective as for example the question " who am I? " . al. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > connects > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > state, is still about content. > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > al. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts connects > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > nothingness...... > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > anything...... > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to react > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > attachment to any illusions > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > I think we can practice what I call Integral Time in order to contact > being in a more balanced way if we are trapped too much in thought, as > many people are. > > Integral time has primary to do with the upper left quadrant (in Ken > Wilbers' model), but also has effect on the lower left quadrant and > both right quadrants are indirectly affected by it. > > Integral time is a balance between psychological time and awareness. > Psychological time is the way we think and feel about time in a > subjective manner. Awareness is our sense of being in the present moment. > > When psychological time occupies too much of ourselves then we lose > contact with our body and our physical senses. This means that our > awareness has become too trapped in thinking about past and future. > > Integral time is simply the balancing our awareness between thinking > and direct awareness of body and physical senses. When there is > imbalance, when psychological time dominates, then there is a conflict > between our direct present moment awareness, which we can call being > (note that this being is not the same as the nondual Being), and our > thinking. > > One hypothesis is that when we have balance between thinking and > being, then negative emotions are reduced because negative emotions > are caused by the conflict between thinking and being. > > In practical terms this means that we move awareness more to the > center between being and thinking. This creates a change in our sense > of will. We can call it integral will instead of thought-based will. > Integral will is the balance between wanting what is now and wanting > things in the future. When there is an imbalance, then our will is > primarily thought-based and too much attention is focused on the future. > > al. hi al., still programming the " mind " .....in order to escape one day of this prison....?... " your " mind and thoughts are the prison.... good that you are not only this " mind and thoughts " ..... what else? i think that you should find out....by some other " plan " best wishes Regards Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Anders, You tell you hope by finding out how thought is working you then can work on it ? But: 1. This hope is also thought. 2. How thought works is also thought. 3. Working on thought is thought working on thought. 4. The idea to be trapped in thought is also just a thought. 5. The one who wants to get free from thought is also just thought. 6. To go beysond the mind is also just a thought. Therfore: Fuck thought ... All your thoughts are to hot, have to much vitality, why ? Because YOU LOVE IT ! You have to go on with all that nonsense til the day will arrive you are fed up with all that thought stuff, with all that circus which just is a mind fucking self-fertilizer. I promise you, if you really would be interested to go beyond the mind then you already would have done it, but the reality is that you to much love thinking, it is your hobby. All this círcus of being trapped in thought you perform here on this forum is just a false play, in reality you just maintain it to have another reason for your favorite hobby: Thinking. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > > > Nothing changed, what you are writing is still the same nonsense I am > > used from you since ever. > > > > The old hangup: You take thinking for representing the real and you > > are still, as ever, identified with thought as being you (which > > inevitably gives thought an enormous weight). > > > > Werner > > > Hi Werner! > > Yeah, but I want to understand how thinking operates. And I have a > very simple measurement for seeing how much trapped one is in > thinking. The degree of how much we experience bodily senses and our > physical senses tells us how much trapped we are in thought and also > how much inner conflict there is between (direct) being and thinking. > My idea is that if we have a balance there is inner peace. One cannot > fool oneself here. Is there true inner peace? I think that question is > as effective as for example the question " who am I? " . > > al. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > > connects > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. Simple > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such a > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the observer. > > > > > > al. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > connects > > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > Simple > > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such > a > > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > observer. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > > nothingness...... > > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > > anything...... > > > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to > react > > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > > attachment to any illusions > > > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > I think we can practice what I call Integral Time in order to > contact > > being in a more balanced way if we are trapped too much in thought, > as > > many people are. > > > > Integral time has primary to do with the upper left quadrant (in Ken > > Wilbers' model), but also has effect on the lower left quadrant and > > both right quadrants are indirectly affected by it. > > > > Integral time is a balance between psychological time and awareness. > > Psychological time is the way we think and feel about time in a > > subjective manner. Awareness is our sense of being in the present > moment. > > > > When psychological time occupies too much of ourselves then we lose > > contact with our body and our physical senses. This means that our > > awareness has become too trapped in thinking about past and future. > > > > Integral time is simply the balancing our awareness between thinking > > and direct awareness of body and physical senses. When there is > > imbalance, when psychological time dominates, then there is a > conflict > > between our direct present moment awareness, which we can call being > > (note that this being is not the same as the nondual Being), and our > > thinking. > > > > One hypothesis is that when we have balance between thinking and > > being, then negative emotions are reduced because negative emotions > > are caused by the conflict between thinking and being. > > > > In practical terms this means that we move awareness more to the > > center between being and thinking. This creates a change in our > sense > > of will. We can call it integral will instead of thought-based will. > > Integral will is the balance between wanting what is now and wanting > > things in the future. When there is an imbalance, then our will is > > primarily thought-based and too much attention is focused on the > future. > > > > al. > > hi al., > > still programming the " mind " .....in order to escape one day of this > prison....?... > > " your " mind and thoughts are the prison.... > > good that you are not only this " mind and thoughts " ..... > > what else? > > i think that you should find out....by some other " plan " > > best wishes > > Regards > > Marc I can see that my thoughts are a kind of prison, but isn't that in itself enought to make me get out of the prison? al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > You tell you hope by finding out how thought is working you then can > work on it ? > > But: > > 1. This hope is also thought. > 2. How thought works is also thought. > 3. Working on thought is thought working on thought. > 4. The idea to be trapped in thought is also just a thought. > 5. The one who wants to get free from thought is also just thought. > 6. To go beysond the mind is also just a thought. > > Therfore: Fuck thought ... > > All your thoughts are to hot, have to much vitality, why ? Because > YOU LOVE IT ! > > You have to go on with all that nonsense til the day will arrive you > are fed up with all that thought stuff, with all that circus which > just is a mind fucking self-fertilizer. > > I promise you, if you really would be interested to go beyond the > mind then you already would have done it, but the reality is that you > to much love thinking, it is your hobby. > > All this círcus of being trapped in thought you perform here on this > forum is just a false play, in reality you just maintain it to have > another reason for your favorite hobby: Thinking. > > Werner Yes, maybe the problem is the whole process of thinking. But I guess the scary bit is to step out of thinking. I feel I must know why and if thinking is not needed. Maybe that is not possible, but as I said, the feeling of inner peace is a good guidance. Inner peace is more than just thinking. Ideas/Thoughts about inner peace is the real thing, just as ideas/thoughts about breathing is not the breathing itself. al. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > Nothing changed, what you are writing is still the same nonsense > I am > > > used from you since ever. > > > > > > The old hangup: You take thinking for representing the real and > you > > > are still, as ever, identified with thought as being you (which > > > inevitably gives thought an enormous weight). > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Hi Werner! > > > > Yeah, but I want to understand how thinking operates. And I have a > > very simple measurement for seeing how much trapped one is in > > thinking. The degree of how much we experience bodily senses and our > > physical senses tells us how much trapped we are in thought and also > > how much inner conflict there is between (direct) being and > thinking. > > My idea is that if we have a balance there is inner peace. One > cannot > > fool oneself here. Is there true inner peace? I think that question > is > > as effective as for example the question " who am I? " . > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > > > connects > > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > Simple > > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such > a > > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > observer. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Anders, 1. Stepping out of thinking is not scary. Only the thought to step out is scary. 2. You cannot step out of thinking because the stepping out itself is just another thought. In order not to forget stepping out of thought you constantly have to remind you not to forget it. (hahaha) " Utter loneliness lets thought stop " . (Friedrich Schiller) Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > > > You tell you hope by finding out how thought is working you then can > > work on it ? > > > > But: > > > > 1. This hope is also thought. > > 2. How thought works is also thought. > > 3. Working on thought is thought working on thought. > > 4. The idea to be trapped in thought is also just a thought. > > 5. The one who wants to get free from thought is also just thought. > > 6. To go beysond the mind is also just a thought. > > > > Therfore: Fuck thought ... > > > > All your thoughts are to hot, have to much vitality, why ? Because > > YOU LOVE IT ! > > > > You have to go on with all that nonsense til the day will arrive you > > are fed up with all that thought stuff, with all that circus which > > just is a mind fucking self-fertilizer. > > > > I promise you, if you really would be interested to go beyond the > > mind then you already would have done it, but the reality is that you > > to much love thinking, it is your hobby. > > > > All this círcus of being trapped in thought you perform here on this > > forum is just a false play, in reality you just maintain it to have > > another reason for your favorite hobby: Thinking. > > > > Werner > > > Yes, maybe the problem is the whole process of thinking. But I guess > the scary bit is to step out of thinking. I feel I must know why and > if thinking is not needed. Maybe that is not possible, but as I said, > the feeling of inner peace is a good guidance. Inner peace is more > than just thinking. Ideas/Thoughts about inner peace is the real > thing, just as ideas/thoughts about breathing is not the breathing itself. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > 1. Stepping out of thinking is not scary. Only the thought to step > out is scary. > > 2. You cannot step out of thinking because the stepping out itself is > just another thought. In order not to forget stepping out of thought > you constantly have to remind you not to forget it. (hahaha) > > " Utter loneliness lets thought stop " . (Friedrich Schiller) > > Werner Yes, I believe fear is caused by thinking (and much thinking is caused by fear). It's almost as if fear and thinking are aspects of the same process. Thinking itself can only see that in an intellectual way, but in relation to feelings this can, be noticed directly. The way out of fear and compulsive thinking is to find a balance between the desire of what is happening now and what will happen in the future. How to find that balance? That's easy. Just listen to direct feelings as much as listening to thoughts. With direct feeling I mean those feelings that are not related to psychological time. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2005 Report Share Posted September 21, 2005 Hmm Anders, Seems you are avoiding the real issue by sidetracking into fear, psychological time and some more blabla ... Now see the following: When you watch thinking very carefully then you will realize back in your head your own voice silently speaking your thoughts. Thinking is silent talking or sometimes even loud talking. And talking is communicating, right ? It is a social function and that's why it seems so scary to step out of thinking because then you are cut off from your friends, family, all people you are meeting. You will become a solitaire. Do you really want that ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > > > 1. Stepping out of thinking is not scary. Only the thought to step > > out is scary. > > > > 2. You cannot step out of thinking because the stepping out itself is > > just another thought. In order not to forget stepping out of thought > > you constantly have to remind you not to forget it. (hahaha) > > > > " Utter loneliness lets thought stop " . (Friedrich Schiller) > > > > Werner > > > Yes, I believe fear is caused by thinking (and much thinking is caused > by fear). It's almost as if fear and thinking are aspects of the same > process. Thinking itself can only see that in an intellectual way, but > in relation to feelings this can, be noticed directly. > > The way out of fear and compulsive thinking is to find a balance > between the desire of what is happening now and what will happen in > the future. How to find that balance? That's easy. Just listen to > direct feelings as much as listening to thoughts. With direct feeling > I mean those feelings that are not related to psychological time. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Hmm Anders, > > Seems you are avoiding the real issue by sidetracking into fear, > psychological time and some more blabla ... > > Now see the following: > When you watch thinking very carefully then you will realize back in > your head your own voice silently speaking your thoughts. Thinking is > silent talking or sometimes even loud talking. > > And talking is communicating, right ? It is a social function and > that's why it seems so scary to step out of thinking because then you > are cut off from your friends, family, all people you are meeting. > You will become a solitaire. > > Do you really want that ? > > Werner > I see your point. Without thinking I would lose my sense of self, my sense of thinking-self. It's better to let the thinking be, but to move more into direct feeling in the present moment. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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