Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Fine, Anders, Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on a DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond being ? Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social self. Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal environment. And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the reason why thinking won't stop. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hmm Anders, > > > > Seems you are avoiding the real issue by sidetracking into fear, > > psychological time and some more blabla ... > > > > Now see the following: > > When you watch thinking very carefully then you will realize back in > > your head your own voice silently speaking your thoughts. Thinking is > > silent talking or sometimes even loud talking. > > > > And talking is communicating, right ? It is a social function and > > that's why it seems so scary to step out of thinking because then you > > are cut off from your friends, family, all people you are meeting. > > You will become a solitaire. > > > > Do you really want that ? > > > > Werner > > > > > I see your point. Without thinking I would lose my sense of self, my > sense of thinking-self. It's better to let the thinking be, but to > move more into direct feeling in the present moment. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Fine, Anders, > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on a > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > being ? > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social self. > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal environment. > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > reason why thinking won't stop. > > Werner Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of thought " . And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about what people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but it doesn't have to be THAT strong. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_> thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we can become aware of awareness. It's like thoughts > > connects > > > > > to the direct perceptions of reality in the present moment. > > Simple > > > > > awareness has no content in it! Meta-thinking, if there is such > > a > > > > > state, is still about content. > > > > > > > > > > The observer is the observed, but awareness is not the > > observer. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi al., > > > > > > > > i agree with your words...... > > > > > > > > i believe that in Awareness....there is endless peace ....of > > > > nothingness...... > > > > the fiction of body mind intellect don't has any " reactions " to > > > > anything...... > > > > > > > > because in (absolute) Awareness....there is nothing anymore to > > react > > > > on.....and " nobody " anymore to react..... > > > > > > > > becoming a " vegetable " in such state...?... > > > > > > > > i believe no.....it's just Being........without illusions > > > > > > > > awareness in being the state of being....in which there are no > > > > attachment to any illusions > > > > > > > > enjoying the Self > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > I think we can practice what I call Integral Time in order to > > contact > > > being in a more balanced way if we are trapped too much in thought, > > as > > > many people are. > > > > > > Integral time has primary to do with the upper left quadrant (in Ken > > > Wilbers' model), but also has effect on the lower left quadrant and > > > both right quadrants are indirectly affected by it. > > > > > > Integral time is a balance between psychological time and awareness. > > > Psychological time is the way we think and feel about time in a > > > subjective manner. Awareness is our sense of being in the present > > moment. > > > > > > When psychological time occupies too much of ourselves then we lose > > > contact with our body and our physical senses. This means that our > > > awareness has become too trapped in thinking about past and future. > > > > > > Integral time is simply the balancing our awareness between thinking > > > and direct awareness of body and physical senses. When there is > > > imbalance, when psychological time dominates, then there is a > > conflict > > > between our direct present moment awareness, which we can call being > > > (note that this being is not the same as the nondual Being), and our > > > thinking. > > > > > > One hypothesis is that when we have balance between thinking and > > > being, then negative emotions are reduced because negative emotions > > > are caused by the conflict between thinking and being. > > > > > > In practical terms this means that we move awareness more to the > > > center between being and thinking. This creates a change in our > > sense > > > of will. We can call it integral will instead of thought-based will. > > > Integral will is the balance between wanting what is now and wanting > > > things in the future. When there is an imbalance, then our will is > > > primarily thought-based and too much attention is focused on the > > future. > > > > > > al. > > > > hi al., > > > > still programming the " mind " .....in order to escape one day of this > > prison....?... > > > > " your " mind and thoughts are the prison.... > > > > good that you are not only this " mind and thoughts " ..... > > > > what else? > > > > i think that you should find out....by some other " plan " > > > > best wishes > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > I can see that my thoughts are a kind of prison, but isn't that in > itself enought to make me get out of the prison? > > al. it's like the story of the bird sitting in the cage....since many many years..... even if....one day....the door of the cage remain open..... the bird stay inside.....for some reason.... al. ......go out of this cage......be free Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Anders, Maybe you remember that I am not a friend of Tolle. First, the word " higher " is not an adequate one to denote a different state, if it is a state at all, which I doubt. And second how do you know that it is a " new state " of consciousnes ? Couldn't it rather be a different flux of energy or the ending of neurosis ? Be it as it is, we better forget all those " states " because being is not a state, same with consciousness. A state is a snapshot, a time slice cut out of some constant changing flow. Strange, when observing your thoughts you got the idea that the vast majoriry are not needed. Anders, who are you to decide which of your thoughts are needed and which not, are you God ? And who is the decider, the judge ? And again you are in conflict with your thoughts, or to be more precise: One thought is in conflict with a previous one now saying " you are not needed but me, the new thought is needed because I do know " . The problem with all thoughts is that every of them maintains when it arises to be the only truth. If every thought would say " Hey listen, I am shit " then we wouldn't get so easily trapped and identified with them, wouldn't we ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Fine, Anders, > > > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on a > > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > > being ? > > > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social self. > > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal environment. > > > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > > reason why thinking won't stop. > > > > Werner > > > Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for > humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our > ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate > beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. > > He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human > condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " > > He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of thought " . > > And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own > thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not > needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my > thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about what > people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in > society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about > getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making > wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about > what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets > about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, > fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) > and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but > it doesn't have to be THAT strong. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Fine, Anders, > > > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on a > > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > > being ? > > > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social self. > > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal environment. > > > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > > reason why thinking won't stop. > > > > Werner > > > Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for > humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our > ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate > beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. > > He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human > condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " > > He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of thought " . > > And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own > thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not > needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my > thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about what > people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in > society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about > getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making > wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about > what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets > about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, > fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) > and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but > it doesn't have to be THAT strong. > > al. Al., there is yourself....and your fears, your thoughts, ....which you share with " others " ...... as long you believe that this " others " are seperated ....like Mickey Mouse too.....you believe is seperated to you...... as long you don't percieve the Oneness of your perception.....which is your own dream...... as long you are attached to this dream.....which enclude even your body and mind....... as long there is no trust in yourself......means, in " others " too....which are the reflection of yourself..... there is not much hope..... give up all this.....and join us all.......in the being that we all are just be Self yourSelf Regards Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Maybe you remember that I am not a friend of Tolle. First, the > word " higher " is not an adequate one to denote a different state, if > it is a state at all, which I doubt. And second how do you know that > it is a " new state " of consciousnes ? Couldn't it rather be a > different flux of energy or the ending of neurosis ? Be it as it is, > we better forget all those " states " because being is not a state, > same with consciousness. A state is a snapshot, a time slice cut out > of some constant changing flow. > > Strange, when observing your thoughts you got the idea that the vast > majoriry are not needed. Anders, who are you to decide which of your > thoughts are needed and which not, are you God ? And who is the > decider, the judge ? > > And again you are in conflict with your thoughts, or to be more > precise: One thought is in conflict with a previous one now > saying " you are not needed but me, the new thought is needed because > I do know " . > > The problem with all thoughts is that every of them maintains when it > arises to be the only truth. If every thought would say " Hey listen, > I am shit " then we wouldn't get so easily trapped and identified with > them, wouldn't we ? > > Werner > > That's an interesting observation, that one thought says that other thoughts are not needed. Almost as if there is a competition between thoughts. Clearly that in itself is a state of inner conflict. My practice is that I observe my thoughts and feelings at the same time. There is a constant conflict in my being. And I believe that if I can heal that conflict then there would be tremendous peace. The conflict can be felt as a nervous feeling, and by observing that feeling itself I break the habit in being totally in the grip of thought. There may be a thought that says " observe your feelings " but that thought is only a pointer and I have to actually observe my feelings directly and that is not only a thought even thought thoughts and feelings are very much connected. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > Fine, Anders, > > > > > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on > a > > > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > > > being ? > > > > > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social > self. > > > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > > > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal > environment. > > > > > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > > > reason why thinking won't stop. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for > > humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our > > ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate > > beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. > > > > He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human > > condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " > > > > He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of > thought " . > > > > And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own > > thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not > > needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my > > thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about > what > > people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in > > society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about > > getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making > > wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about > > what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets > > about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, > > fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) > > and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but > > it doesn't have to be THAT strong. > > > > al. > > Al., > > there is yourself....and your fears, your thoughts, ....which you > share with " others " ...... > > as long you believe that this " others " are seperated ....like Mickey > Mouse too.....you believe is seperated to you...... > as long you don't percieve the Oneness of your perception.....which > is your own dream...... > as long you are attached to this dream.....which enclude even your > body and mind....... > as long there is no trust in yourself......means, in " others " > too....which are the reflection of yourself..... > > there is not much hope..... > > give up all this.....and join us all.......in the being that we all > are > > just be Self > > yourSelf > > Regards > > Marc I feel that I need to understand the inner conflict in me. Only by healing this conflict will there be peace I think. The root problem is thought-based desire. Spiritual scriptures talk endlessly about letting go of desire. But for that to be possible, I must find another form of desire that does operate without conflict. My idea is that this new desire will be a balance between wanting what is now and wanting what is in the future. Thought-based desire is by itself utterly incapable of wanting what is now. That kind of desire cannot operate without being in conflict with this moment. Thought-based desire must fuse with the desire of this moment and become one whole movement. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Anders, Allow me to step in, Maharaj once said: " Our main problem is that we always want what we don't have and that we don't want what we have. If we want what we have and don't want what we don't have, then everything would be so easy " Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > Fine, Anders, > > > > > > > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on > > a > > > > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > > > > being ? > > > > > > > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social > > self. > > > > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > > > > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal > > environment. > > > > > > > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > > > > reason why thinking won't stop. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for > > > humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our > > > ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate > > > beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. > > > > > > He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human > > > condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " > > > > > > He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of > > thought " . > > > > > > And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own > > > thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not > > > needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my > > > thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about > > what > > > people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in > > > society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about > > > getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making > > > wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about > > > what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets > > > about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, > > > fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) > > > and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but > > > it doesn't have to be THAT strong. > > > > > > al. > > > > Al., > > > > there is yourself....and your fears, your thoughts, ....which you > > share with " others " ...... > > > > as long you believe that this " others " are seperated ....like Mickey > > Mouse too.....you believe is seperated to you...... > > as long you don't percieve the Oneness of your perception.....which > > is your own dream...... > > as long you are attached to this dream.....which enclude even your > > body and mind....... > > as long there is no trust in yourself......means, in " others " > > too....which are the reflection of yourself..... > > > > there is not much hope..... > > > > give up all this.....and join us all.......in the being that we all > > are > > > > just be Self > > > > yourSelf > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > I feel that I need to understand the inner conflict in me. Only by > healing this conflict will there be peace I think. The root problem is > thought-based desire. Spiritual scriptures talk endlessly about > letting go of desire. But for that to be possible, I must find another > form of desire that does operate without conflict. My idea is that > this new desire will be a balance between wanting what is now and > wanting what is in the future. Thought-based desire is by itself > utterly incapable of wanting what is now. That kind of desire cannot > operate without being in conflict with this moment. Thought-based > desire must fuse with the desire of this moment and become one whole > movement. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > Fine, Anders, > > > > > > > > Now we go together. Why are we here on a Maharaj list and not on > > a > > > > DonaldDuck list ? Isn't it about being and about what is beyond > > > > being ? > > > > > > > > Btw, what you call the self or the thinking-self is a social > > self. > > > > Its task is to enable communication with others and to share your > > > > abilities and to satisfy yout needs within your communal > > environment. > > > > > > > > And that social interaction is pretty important and therefore the > > > > reason why thinking won't stop. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said: " Thinking is not the only state possible for > > > humans, and not the highest " This doesn't mean that we lose our > > > ability think, but rather the opposite, that thought can operate > > > beautifully and more effective in the new state of consciousness. > > > > > > He also said: " If you want to know about the insanity of the human > > > condition I recommend you read a history book or watch TV tonight " > > > > > > He says that humanity is beginning to wake up from " the dream of > > thought " . > > > > > > And I must say that maybe he has a point. Just observing my own > > > thoughts I can see that the vast majority of them are perhaps not > > > needed. And certainly, the strong emotions that go along with my > > > thinking need not be that strong. One example is fear, fear about > > what > > > people think about me, say about me, fear of losing social status in > > > society and loss of reputation among friends and family, fear about > > > getting ill such as cancer, getting old, dying, losing money, making > > > wrong choices, not making a good job, becomming homeless, fear about > > > what to say, how to behave, fear about people finding out secrets > > > about me, fear about not being able to protect my secret thoughts, > > > fear about time (not having enough time, fear of wasting time e t c) > > > and on and on and on... This kind of fear may perhaps be needed, but > > > it doesn't have to be THAT strong. > > > > > > al. > > > > Al., > > > > there is yourself....and your fears, your thoughts, ....which you > > share with " others " ...... > > > > as long you believe that this " others " are seperated ....like Mickey > > Mouse too.....you believe is seperated to you...... > > as long you don't percieve the Oneness of your perception.....which > > is your own dream...... > > as long you are attached to this dream.....which enclude even your > > body and mind....... > > as long there is no trust in yourself......means, in " others " > > too....which are the reflection of yourself..... > > > > there is not much hope..... > > > > give up all this.....and join us all.......in the being that we all > > are > > > > just be Self > > > > yourSelf > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > I feel that I need to understand the inner conflict in me. Only by > healing this conflict will there be peace I think. The root problem is > thought-based desire. Spiritual scriptures talk endlessly about > letting go of desire. But for that to be possible, I must find another > form of desire that does operate without conflict. My idea is that > this new desire will be a balance between wanting what is now and > wanting what is in the future. Thought-based desire is by itself > utterly incapable of wanting what is now. That kind of desire cannot > operate without being in conflict with this moment. Thought-based > desire must fuse with the desire of this moment and become one whole > movement. > > al. al., if you would find little peace in this mind....and thoughts.... this desire related thoughts would slow down.... the movements of the waves on the ocean....arnen't realy " initiated " by themself... if you " know " this.....go on with the " flow " ....and know that you are neither this wave....neither the one who can move by " yourself " this wave..... slowly detach from the wrong identification.... a new al. will be born..... this new al has nothing anymore in common with the actuel one... ....like all the new " al's " of any " future " ....... love and peace Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > Allow me to step in, > > Maharaj once said: > > " Our main problem is that we always want what we don't have and that > we don't want what we have. If we want what we have and don't want > what we don't have, then everything would be so easy " > > Werner I think there must be a balance between wanting what we have and not wanting what we have. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: .... > > al., > > if you would find little peace in this mind....and thoughts.... > > this desire related thoughts would slow down.... > > > the movements of the waves on the ocean....arnen't realy " initiated " > by themself... > > if you " know " this.....go on with the " flow " ....and know that you are > neither this wave....neither the one who can move by " yourself " this > wave..... > > slowly detach from the wrong identification.... > > a new al. will be born..... > > this new al has nothing anymore in common with the actuel one... > > ...like all the new " al's " of any " future " ....... > > love and peace > > Marc I agree that there must be a flow with the totality of life, or else there will not be true peace. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 You think, you think, you think ... The old game I am used from you Anders: Thinking yes, doing no ... What about starting wanting those thoughts you have and not wanting thoughts you don't have ? Couldn't it be interesting to experiment with that for a while ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > > > Allow me to step in, > > > > Maharaj once said: > > > > " Our main problem is that we always want what we don't have and that > > we don't want what we have. If we want what we have and don't want > > what we don't have, then everything would be so easy " > > > > Werner > > > I think there must be a balance between wanting what we have and not > wanting what we have. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > You think, you think, you think ... > > The old game I am used from you Anders: Thinking yes, doing no ... > > What about starting wanting those thoughts you have and not wanting > thoughts you don't have ? > > Couldn't it be interesting to experiment with that for a while ? > > Werner That was a clever practice! I will give it a try. al. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > Allow me to step in, > > > > > > Maharaj once said: > > > > > > " Our main problem is that we always want what we don't have and > that > > > we don't want what we have. If we want what we have and don't > want > > > what we don't have, then everything would be so easy " > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > I think there must be a balance between wanting what we have and not > > wanting what we have. > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2005 Report Share Posted September 22, 2005 > > I agree that there must be a flow with the totality of life, or else > there will not be true peace. > > al. yes.... this " true peace " will bring you " behind the Mind " ... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >You tell you hope by finding out how thought is working you then can work on it ? >But: 1. This hope is also thought. 2. How thought works is also thought. 3. Working on thought is thought working on thought. 4. The idea to be trapped in thought is also just a thought. 5. The one who wants to get free from thought is also just thought. 6. To go beysond the mind is also just a thought. >Therfore: Fuck thought ... >All your thoughts are to hot, have to much vitality, why ? Because YOU LOVE IT ! >You have to go on with all that nonsense til the day will arrive you are fed up with all that thought stuff, with all that circus which just is a mind fucking self-fertilizer. >I promise you, if you really would be interested to go beyond the mind then you already would have done it, but the reality is that you to much love thinking, it is your hobby. >All this círcus of being trapped in thought you perform here on this forum is just a false play, in reality you just maintain it to have another reason for your favorite hobby: Thinking. ------------ That was well said, concisely and to the point. The human condition is full of such hobbies: - thinking - addicted to the drama - endless drama - drama of love or hate or myriad of in between - drama of thinking that " you " have evolved as many people do think they've " got " it and are better than another. - drama of thinking their way is better (or their new thought is any better than the old thought) Yes werner, you said it all. It's all thought. One thought or another is still thought. Thought perceived from a different perspective is still....just a thought. Love is a dual emotion that arrives out of thought. Without thought there is not love, bliss, hate or anything in between. Bliss is a bi-product of thought and this thing it produces called " experience. " Laughter is an emotion. It is dual. It is non-existent without a thought to produce and compare it too - just like love and bliss. NOthing is empty and thoughts that produce bliss, love hate, laughter or tears appear to be far more fascinating than not having it ---> .....emptiness. Why fuck thought? Why get rid of a favorite hobby? People think there's something wrong with having a hobby such as this. People want to understand it all. But Werner it is just as you said, " a Hobby. " ...A hobby that produces some kind of sensation or reaction. And everybody thinks their hobby is the only and best one and everybody elses hobby is " not quite the right one " . Boards are designated to teach the falseness of others thoughts when their own board is still a thought. Oh, the insanity runs deep in Strawberry canyon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2005 Report Share Posted September 24, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, 1. Stepping out of thinking is not scary. Only the thought to step out is scary. 2. You cannot step out of thinking because the stepping out itself is just another thought. In order not to forget stepping out of thought you constantly have to remind you not to forget it. (hahaha) " Utter loneliness lets thought stop " . (Friedrich Schiller) Werner -------------------------- I recall a zen saying that goes something like this: Let the mind wander like a cloud, clinging to no thing. Have you tried to stop the mind from thinking? And why would one try? Thoughts just go randomly. Struggling to step out of thought only gets one further in the thought process, as you've said. It reminds me of a person who tries to get out of quick sand by pulling themselves out. The very act pulls them back in. I notice this too with people who are hell bent on claiming they have the " right " way and truth (think Judy at the end of the rope ranch). This one doesn't get it that her thoughts are still thoughts - not grand or mightier - just thoughts. Different? No. Just same old thoughts wrapped up in a different package. Still deep and far in the quicksand they think their getting out of. Some people's quicksand is far more appealing to themselves than other people's quicksand. Still....it's all thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.