Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting trapped in thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 <anders_lindman> wrote: > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > trapped in thought? Yes, I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness without object.. Or in the gap between two thoughts. There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. Era .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Anders, A similar important question: Is it possible to bite into your own ellbow and suck your own dick at the same time ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > trapped in thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... or not... ;-) - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM Direct Awareness Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting trapped in thought? ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? > > > Yes, > > I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness without object.. > > Or in the gap between two thoughts. > > There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. > > Era sounds interesting... awareness has nothing to do with thoughts.... Marc > > > . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... > > or not... > > ;-) Yeah, but J. Krishnamurti said that when awareness was trapped in thought there was very little space. Only when thought was still could awareness be spacious and free. (I don't know if he used the word 'awareness', but we can call it 'universal mind, or whatever). al. > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM > Direct Awareness > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > trapped in thought? > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > A similar important question: > > Is it possible to bite into your own ellbow and suck your own dick at > the same time ? > > Werner But that would still be an action from thought. Can the mind be spacious and free from thought? al. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? > > > Yes, > > I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness without object.. > > Or in the gap between two thoughts. > > There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. > > Era > > > . J. Krishnamurti called it meditation, I think. Not meditation as in some kind of practice or method, but a state of meditation. This state is not without objects. As I understand it, meditation in this sense is to be aware of all that is going on in a conflictless way. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Anders, K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly directed to " . For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in that itching. But the whole question is of no practical importance as long a you constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for thinking instead of inquiring boredom itself. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of > consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... > > > > or not... > > > > ;-) > > > Yeah, but J. Krishnamurti said that when awareness was trapped in > thought there was very little space. Only when thought was still could > awareness be spacious and free. (I don't know if he used the word > 'awareness', but we can call it 'universal mind, or whatever). > > al. > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM > > Direct Awareness > > > > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly directed to " . > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in that > itching. > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long a you > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for thinking > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > Werner Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too much attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still relevant: Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting trapped in thought? al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > Yes, > > > > I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises > in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness without > object.. > > > > Or in the gap between two thoughts. > > > > There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. > > > > Era > > > > > > . > > > J. Krishnamurti called it meditation, I think. Not meditation as in > some kind of practice or method, but a state of meditation. This state > is not without objects. As I understand it, meditation in this sense > is to be aware of all that is going on in a conflictless way. > > al. ....meditation is loosing body sense.... just like the state of deep sleep.... but meditation let one " experience " it in being awake.... a quite mind is necessary to meditate....to enter in meditation.... ....the " world " appear in it's " conflicts " only....when there is no meditation....no quite mind.... consciousness is transformed..... attitudes change.... " views " change... love is growing... knowledge is becoming more pure.... ....and all this happen...in awareness of a spiritual soul.... which " see " Oneness in all... Oneness of all souls.... Regards Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, October 03, 2005 10:24 AM Re: Direct Awareness Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... > > or not... > > ;-) Yeah, but J. Krishnamurti said that when awareness was trapped in thought there was very little space. Only when thought was still could awareness be spacious and free. (I don't know if he used the word 'awareness', but we can call it 'universal mind, or whatever). al. No " yeah, but's " in awarenessor Universal Self/ my Beloved Friend. IMHO everything is IS. > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM > Direct Awareness > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > trapped in thought? > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, October 03, 2005 10:26 AM Re: Direct Awareness Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > A similar important question: > > Is it possible to bite into your own ellbow and suck your own dick at > the same time ? > > Werner But that would still be an action from thought. Can the mind be spacious and free from thought? al. Damn it guys, it playing with your ***** and quit separating mind from thought. Thoughts are things, ;-) ;-) ar. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 03, 2005 10:24 AM > Re: Direct Awareness > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of > consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... > > > > or not... > > > > ;-) > > > Yeah, but J. Krishnamurti said that when awareness was trapped in > thought there was very little space. Only when thought was still could > awareness be spacious and free. (I don't know if he used the word > 'awareness', but we can call it 'universal mind, or whatever). > > al. > > > No " yeah, but's " in awarenessor Universal Self/ my Beloved Friend. IMHO > > everything is IS. Ha! And in that ISness is included " yeah, but's " . ;-) > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM > > Direct Awareness > > > > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first > getting > > > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > > > > Yes, > > > > > > I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises > > in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness > without > > object.. > > > > > > Or in the gap between two thoughts. > > > > > > There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > J. Krishnamurti called it meditation, I think. Not meditation as in > > some kind of practice or method, but a state of meditation. This > state > > is not without objects. As I understand it, meditation in this sense > > is to be aware of all that is going on in a conflictless way. > > > > al. > > ...meditation is loosing body sense.... > just like the state of deep sleep.... > but meditation let one " experience " it in being awake.... > > a quite mind is necessary to meditate....to enter in meditation.... > > ...the " world " appear in it's " conflicts " only....when there is no > meditation....no quite mind.... > > consciousness is transformed..... > attitudes change.... > " views " change... > love is growing... > knowledge is becoming more pure.... > > ...and all this happen...in awareness of a spiritual soul.... > which " see " Oneness in all... > > Oneness of all souls.... > > Regards > > Marc JK used the word meditation in his own way. I don't think he meant that in meditation one loses body sense or thinking. In meditation thought is used when needed, but not all the time as in people's usually state of being. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Monday, October 03, 2005 11:52 AM Re: Direct Awareness Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 03, 2005 10:24 AM > Re: Direct Awareness > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > awareness is aware of thought as thought, an outpicturing of > consciousness in and of itself, a flowering and flowing of Being... > > > > or not... > > > > ;-) > > > Yeah, but J. Krishnamurti said that when awareness was trapped in > thought there was very little space. Only when thought was still could > awareness be spacious and free. (I don't know if he used the word > 'awareness', but we can call it 'universal mind, or whatever). > > al. > > > No " yeah, but's " in awarenessor Universal Self/ my Beloved Friend. IMHO > > everything is IS. Ha! And in that ISness is included " yeah, but's " . ;-) gotcha i mean, me ;-) > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Monday, October 03, 2005 9:10 AM > > Direct Awareness > > > > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly directed to " . > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in that > > itching. > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long a you > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for thinking > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > Werner > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too much > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still relevant: Is it > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting trapped > in thought? > > al. >======================== There is no " direct awareness " only the Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, duality, " indirect. " Awareness is the absence of thoughts, like the body and its universe and everything else with name and form " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, name, thought. -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly directed > to " . > > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in that > > > itching. > > > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long a > you > > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for > thinking > > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too much > > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still relevant: Is > it > > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > trapped > > in thought? > > > > al. > >======================== > There is no " direct awareness " only the > Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. > > The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, > duality, " indirect. " > > Awareness is the absence of thoughts, > like the body and its universe > and everything else with name and form > > " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, > name, thought. > > -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other > until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, as you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure of thought. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly directed > > to " . > > > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in that > > > > itching. > > > > > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long a > > you > > > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for > > thinking > > > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too much > > > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still relevant: Is > > it > > > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > trapped > > > in thought? > > > > > > al. > > >======================== > > There is no " direct awareness " only the > > Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. > > > > The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, > > duality, " indirect. " > > > > Awareness is the absence of thoughts, > > like the body and its universe > > and everything else with name and form > > > > " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, > > name, thought. > > > > -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other > > until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. > > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, as > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure > of thought. > > al. >========================== I learned the language from them that used it so I suppose they should know. LOVE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly > directed > > > to " . > > > > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in > that > > > > > itching. > > > > > > > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long > a > > > you > > > > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for > > > thinking > > > > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too > much > > > > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still > relevant: Is > > > it > > > > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > > trapped > > > > in thought? > > > > > > > > al. > > > >======================== > > > There is no " direct awareness " only the > > > Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. > > > > > > The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, > > > duality, " indirect. " > > > > > > Awareness is the absence of thoughts, > > > like the body and its universe > > > and everything else with name and form > > > > > > " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, > > > name, thought. > > > > > > -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other > > > until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. > > > > > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use > > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. > > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, > as > > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure > > of thought. > > > > al. > >========================== > I learned the language > from them that used it > so I suppose they should know. > > LOVE I have found a way to look at the whole structure of thought (I think First recognize that you are aware in the present moment. Your awareness is completely motionless in relation to the present moment. Thoughts, on the other hand, are motionless in relation to the present moment only in the extent in which they are " held " in awareness. Even a " stream of thougts " must as a whole be held in awareness in order to be " seen " in relation to the context of memory to give the whole stream a coherent meaning. Direct introspective observation reveals that this " holding " of thouhts in awareness requires effort. This means that it requires a subtle struggle to hold thoughts in awareness, while awareness itself seems to be effortless, and maybe we could even say that awareness IS the present moment. So awareness is probably effortless, while thoughts require effort. This insight should make it possible for the mind to rest effortlessly in awareness, while thoughts, the whole structure and holding mechanism of thought, just melt away. How about that for a new kind of meditation?! )) al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly > > directed > > > > to " . > > > > > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped in > > that > > > > > > itching. > > > > > > > > > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as long > > a > > > > you > > > > > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for > > > > thinking > > > > > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by too > > much > > > > > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still > > relevant: Is > > > > it > > > > > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first getting > > > > trapped > > > > > in thought? > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > >======================== > > > > There is no " direct awareness " only the > > > > Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. > > > > > > > > The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, > > > > duality, " indirect. " > > > > > > > > Awareness is the absence of thoughts, > > > > like the body and its universe > > > > and everything else with name and form > > > > > > > > " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, > > > > name, thought. > > > > > > > > -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other > > > > until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. > > > > > > > > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use > > > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. > > > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, > > as > > > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure > > > of thought. > > > > > > al. > > >========================== > > I learned the language > > from them that used it > > so I suppose they should know. > > > > LOVE > > > I have found a way to look at the whole structure of thought (I think > First recognize that you are aware in the present moment. Your > awareness is completely motionless in relation to the present moment. > Thoughts, on the other hand, are motionless in relation to the present > moment only in the extent in which they are " held " in awareness. Even > a " stream of thougts " must as a whole be held in awareness in order to > be " seen " in relation to the context of memory to give the whole > stream a coherent meaning. > > Direct introspective observation reveals that this " holding " of > thouhts in awareness requires effort. This means that it requires a > subtle struggle to hold thoughts in awareness, while awareness itself > seems to be effortless, and maybe we could even say that awareness IS > the present moment. So awareness is probably effortless, while > thoughts require effort. This insight should make it possible for the > mind to rest effortlessly in awareness, while thoughts, the whole > structure and holding mechanism of thought, just melt away. > > How about that for a new kind of meditation?! )) > > al. >======================== If the words make you LAUGH then you are Awake: you are not the words but the Laughter. -- laughs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2005 Report Share Posted October 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " > <semmin@e...> > > > wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > K. meant with awareness trapped in: " attention mainly > > > directed > > > > > to " . > > > > > > > For example if an itch is itching then awares is traped > in > > > that > > > > > > > itching. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But the whole question is of no practical importance as > long > > > a > > > > > you > > > > > > > constantly are avoiding boredom by searching new food for > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > instead of inquiring boredom itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, negative states like boredom are probably caused by > too > > > much > > > > > > attention on thinking. So my question is perhaps still > > > relevant: Is > > > > > it > > > > > > possible to be aware directly, without awareness first > getting > > > > > trapped > > > > > > in thought? > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > >======================== > > > > > There is no " direct awareness " only the > > > > > Awareness that is the absence of thought, fiction, nothing. > > > > > > > > > > The word " direct " only creates yet another thought, word, > > > > > duality, " indirect. " > > > > > > > > > > Awareness is the absence of thoughts, > > > > > like the body and its universe > > > > > and everything else with name and form > > > > > > > > > > " trapped " is like thinking and choosing, just is a word, > > > > > name, thought. > > > > > > > > > > -- just more BS that thoughts need to chase each other > > > > > until Laughter ends the chase with the thought, death. > > > > > > > > > > > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could > use > > > > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that > state. > > > > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in > thought, > > > as > > > > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole > structure > > > > of thought. > > > > > > > > al. > > > >========================== > > > I learned the language > > > from them that used it > > > so I suppose they should know. > > > > > > LOVE > > > > > > I have found a way to look at the whole structure of thought (I > think > > First recognize that you are aware in the present moment. Your > > awareness is completely motionless in relation to the present > moment. > > Thoughts, on the other hand, are motionless in relation to the > present > > moment only in the extent in which they are " held " in awareness. > Even > > a " stream of thougts " must as a whole be held in awareness in order > to > > be " seen " in relation to the context of memory to give the whole > > stream a coherent meaning. > > > > Direct introspective observation reveals that this " holding " of > > thouhts in awareness requires effort. This means that it requires a > > subtle struggle to hold thoughts in awareness, while awareness > itself > > seems to be effortless, and maybe we could even say that awareness > IS > > the present moment. So awareness is probably effortless, while > > thoughts require effort. This insight should make it possible for > the > > mind to rest effortlessly in awareness, while thoughts, the whole > > structure and holding mechanism of thought, just melt away. > > > > How about that for a new kind of meditation?! )) > > > > al. > >======================== > If the words make you LAUGH > then you are Awake: you are not the words but the Laughter. > -- laughs Hmm... Ok. Although I must admit that I take the words I wrote a little bit serious. I will practice this method myself for a while and see if it will give the effect I want. Just imagine melting down the whole thought-structure! That's the whole ego and all the attached emotions and memories and so on in a single meltdown. If it works, I can write a book about this method and make a lot of dollare$. Hehe. ))) The title of the book could be: " Mental Meltdown " , ... maybe not. that sounds like a severe psychological disorder or something. How about: " Thinking Down " ... nope, sounds like a depression. I know: " Thoughtless Mind " ... arrrgh! too much psychopath connotation. Well, anyway, first I have to see if the method really works... al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Is it possible to be aware directly, without awareness first > > getting > > > > > trapped in thought? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, > > > > > > > > I heard, that right after one wakes up and before the world arises > > > in the consciousness there is that moment.. of pure awareness > > without > > > object.. > > > > > > > > Or in the gap between two thoughts. > > > > > > > > There is Ramana's Self.. to be found in there.. > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > J. Krishnamurti called it meditation, I think. Not meditation as in > > > some kind of practice or method, but a state of meditation. This > > state > > > is not without objects. As I understand it, meditation in this sense > > > is to be aware of all that is going on in a conflictless way. > > > > > > al. > > > > ...meditation is loosing body sense.... > > just like the state of deep sleep.... > > but meditation let one " experience " it in being awake.... > > > > a quite mind is necessary to meditate....to enter in meditation.... > > > > ...the " world " appear in it's " conflicts " only....when there is no > > meditation....no quite mind.... > > > > consciousness is transformed..... > > attitudes change.... > > " views " change... > > love is growing... > > knowledge is becoming more pure.... > > > > ...and all this happen...in awareness of a spiritual soul.... > > which " see " Oneness in all... > > > > Oneness of all souls.... > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > > JK used the word meditation in his own way. I don't think he meant > that in meditation one loses body sense or thinking. In meditation > thought is used when needed, but not all the time as in people's > usually state of being. > > al. ....seem that there are many different " views " about " meditation " ... i believe that (nearly) all have in common...that there have to be a quite mind....to meditate a restless mind (thoughts) can't realy enter in meditation.... yes....meditation is not an " usual state of being " ....i agree your definition let me think about a kind of " meditative state of mind " ..... i remember one definition of Osho about meditation: " meditation is a (very) quick waking up " this " waking up " description concerning meditation is, i believe, an interesting point of view indead...it's necessary to " pass " all the sense organs and related (dream-world) perceptions....means detach from even body and (ego) mind.....to just Be....what one Is after a deep meditation...sometimes....it's even difficult to talk few words.....the mind is completely absorbed in Consciousness.....and nothing anymore else...and even no thoughts at all the effect of " meditation " go deep....maybe it could be compared with a " cleaning of (individual) soul " if your soul is " clean " .....means no more " individual " .... filled up with light and love......constantly....and permanent.....means realized then sure....meditation techniques are not necessary wish a good " cleaning up " .... Regards and love Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 Anders, JK never said such nonsense. It is your personal trip that awareness is the active entity, that you are awareness. And you don't want to let go that crap. And so you only read what you want to see and the result is that you thoroughly misunderstood JK. Same with meditation: For JK meditation is something one IS and not someting one DOES in order to reach a desired result like a quiet mind. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, as > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure > of thought. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2005 Report Share Posted October 4, 2005 exactly W, I Am is the meditation, a life-long projection.... ;-) ar - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Tuesday, October 04, 2005 5:20 AM Re: Direct Awareness Anders, JK never said such nonsense. It is your personal trip that awareness is the active entity, that you are awareness. And you don't want to let go that crap. And so you only read what you want to see and the result is that you thoroughly misunderstood JK. Same with meditation: For JK meditation is something one IS and not someting one DOES in order to reach a desired result like a quiet mind. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I see what you mean. J. Krishnamurti said that awareness could use > thought, knowledge and memory. But first one must enter that state. > Otherwise one would just keep on going round and round in thought, as > you say. K said that an " insight " is needed into the whole structure > of thought. > > al. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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