Guest guest Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > I have a problem, Gene, 'you' are another name for/of me.... > > he he, so, are you going to concede? > > The Joy that I Am....========================== We are all the same Consciousness that uses different aliases for the JOY that it is. This Alias mind and its body called " I " has to play its role in life just as perfectly as Consciousness plays your Anna role perfectly. If this Alias called I had any choice then I would have drowned in Consciousness long ago to leave all this f'iction far behind. LOVE > - > Gene Polotas > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 17, 2005 12:13 PM > the SELF personified > > > Compared to ME Jesus, Buddha and Ramana were ego maniacs. > And that is fact > because there is no other but ME. > > > > realization -- > > There is no realization nor choice because they are both thoughts, > fiction. > > But if there was such a thing as realization and choice then it would > perhaps best apply to the serial killer on death row - who wants to die > to end his role. > > > > > > > -- ---------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2005 Report Share Posted October 17, 2005 - Gene Polotas Nisargadatta Monday, October 17, 2005 3:50 PM Re: the SELF personified as Anna Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > I have a problem, Gene, 'you' are another name for/of me.... > > he he, so, are you going to concede? > > The Joy that I Am....========================== We are all the same Consciousness that uses different aliases for the JOY that it is. This Alias mind and its body called " I " has to play its role in life just as perfectly as Consciousness plays your Anna role perfectly. If this Alias called I had any choice then I would have drowned in Consciousness long ago to leave all this f'iction far behind. LOVE ana: what you got serious all of a sudden? Play, Play, Joy, Joy > - > Gene Polotas > Nisargadatta > Monday, October 17, 2005 12:13 PM > the SELF personified > > > Compared to ME Jesus, Buddha and Ramana were ego maniacs. > And that is fact > because there is no other but ME. > > > > realization -- > > There is no realization nor choice because they are both thoughts, > fiction. > > But if there was such a thing as realization and choice then it would > perhaps best apply to the serial killer on death row - who wants to die > to end his role. > > > > > > > -- ---------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2005 Report Share Posted October 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Gene Polotas " <semmin@e...> wrote: >This Alias mind and its body called " I " has to play its role in life >just as perfectly as Consciousness plays your Anna role perfectly. > >If this Alias called I had any choice then I would have drowned in >Consciousness long ago to leave all this f'iction far behind. Who told you, dear friend, that you have to play a role That you are choiceless, even this is it not still a belief How can fiction be left anywhere if it is just fiction Are you not already drowned head over heals lolila Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 I'm in agreement that there is no meaningful choosing. Choosing is a human faculty that results from dualistic perception and memory, both of which are illusory. Aside from that, there is no human. We seemingly make choices and all sorts of exciting events occur within the illusion, but the choices do not cause the events to occur, but are merely one of them. The ineffectiveness of choices can easily be demonstrated. We cannot choose to believe, we simply believe what we believe, which results from manifested experience within the context of our limited awareness. We cannot choose to be happy or enlightened. What we're most interested in is choosing surrender, acceptance, willingness, since these are attitudes that will allow for the expansion of awareness. Any attempt to choose these will again demonstrate the ineffectiveness of choice. We find ourselves struggling to surrender, wishing we could accept and wondering why willingness won't obey our own will. This is all as it should be, since all of physicality is nothing more than a dream expression of consciousness and so the dream object cannot choose for the dreamer. Expansion of awareness within consciousness is the key, and this is allowed to occur as awareness expands to allow for it. There is nothing that can be done to cause this to occur. However, the illusion is experienced by consciousness, and this created experience offers the opportunity to reveal Truth by uncovering self created truth and removing it from view, leaving what is real, which can then be noticed. The exploration of illusion and the expansion of limiting beliefs is, therefore, all that can be 'done' from the ego perspective. Phil In a message dated 10/18/2005 3:57:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, s.petersilge writes: >This Alias mind and its body called " I " has to play its role in life >just as perfectly as Consciousness plays your Anna role perfectly. > >If this Alias called I had any choice then I would have drowned in >Consciousness long ago to leave all this f'iction far behind. Who told you, dear friend, that you have to play a role That you are choiceless, even this is it not still a belief How can fiction be left anywhere if it is just fiction Are you not already drowned head over heals lolila Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Yes, nicely said. Consciousness arises from awareness and is not fully aware of itself. This bounded consciousness expresses itself as the illusion, which is necessarily bounded. Because this expression is limited, it experiences lack. Lack brings about desire. Desire leads to the creation of ego and the choices designed to fulfill that desire. The search for meaning, then, becomes merely the apparent result of an apparent choice motivated by an apparent desire (All occurring within the dream) which arises out of a sense of lack which is sourced in consciousness by virtue of it's own limitations of awareness of Self. The choice, itself, has no real meaning. Phil BTW, I like to think that, while the interpretation may be " logical " , no processing was involved in the awareness that led to the interpretation. (Sounds like a disclaimer for a nature film. " No consciousnessses were harmed in the processing of this interpretation. " Okay, it must be getting late. Dear Phil: All that you speak of and about is quite logical processing Imo. What this logistic processing does not address is the choice for a " search for meaning " , the basis of all human experience. This search is the groundwork for all religion, all art, all abstractions of philosophy, science, etc. It is inherent in the human condition--an evolution of consciousness. Seen thru to its end, it is a search for unconditional love. Something given freely in the Being-ness we already always possess. The experience of enlightenment, framed in the linear movement of time, is to allow for the cognizing process to be 'seen' through. (Awareness of consciousness in the dreaming state--a lucid field of esperience in, of and as This--the I Am or Turiya and beyond--I Am That I Am.) Love, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Dear Phil: All that you speak of and about is quite logical processing Imo. What this logistic processing does not address is the choice for a " search for meaning " , the basis of all human experience. This search is the groundwork for all religion, all art, all abstractions of philosophy, science, etc. It is inherent in the human condition--an evolution of consciousness. Seen thru to its end, it is a search for unconditional love. Something given freely in the Being-ness we already always possess. The experience of enlightenment, framed in the linear movement of time, is to allow for the cognizing process to be 'seen' through. (Awareness of consciousness in the dreaming state--a lucid field of esperience in, of and as This--the I Am or Turiya and beyond--I Am That I Am.) Love, Ana - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Wednesday, October 19, 2005 4:22 AM Re: Re: the SELF personified as Anna I'm in agreement that there is no meaningful choosing. Choosing is a human faculty that results from dualistic perception and memory, both of which are illusory. Aside from that, there is no human. We seemingly make choices and all sorts of exciting events occur within the illusion, but the choices do not cause the events to occur, but are merely one of them. The ineffectiveness of choices can easily be demonstrated. We cannot choose to believe, we simply believe what we believe, which results from manifested experience within the context of our limited awareness. We cannot choose to be happy or enlightened. What we're most interested in is choosing surrender, acceptance, willingness, since these are attitudes that will allow for the expansion of awareness. Any attempt to choose these will again demonstrate the ineffectiveness of choice. We find ourselves struggling to surrender, wishing we could accept and wondering why willingness won't obey our own will. This is all as it should be, since all of physicality is nothing more than a dream expression of consciousness and so the dream object cannot choose for the dreamer. Expansion of awareness within consciousness is the key, and this is allowed to occur as awareness expands to allow for it. There is nothing that can be done to cause this to occur. However, the illusion is experienced by consciousness, and this created experience offers the opportunity to reveal Truth by uncovering self created truth and removing it from view, leaving what is real, which can then be noticed. The exploration of illusion and the expansion of limiting beliefs is, therefore, all that can be 'done' from the ego perspective. Phil In a message dated 10/18/2005 3:57:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, s.petersilge writes: >This Alias mind and its body called " I " has to play its role in life >just as perfectly as Consciousness plays your Anna role perfectly. > >If this Alias called I had any choice then I would have drowned in >Consciousness long ago to leave all this f'iction far behind. Who told you, dear friend, that you have to play a role That you are choiceless, even this is it not still a belief How can fiction be left anywhere if it is just fiction Are you not already drowned head over heals lolila Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 19, 2005 Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Lol, I suppose is the result of all our speaking about.... apparently... smiles, Ana - ADHHUB Nisargadatta Wednesday, October 19, 2005 6:32 AM Re: Re: the SELF personified as Anna Yes, nicely said. Consciousness arises from awareness and is not fully aware of itself. This bounded consciousness expresses itself as the illusion, which is necessarily bounded. Because this expression is limited, it experiences lack. Lack brings about desire. Desire leads to the creation of ego and the choices designed to fulfill that desire. The search for meaning, then, becomes merely the apparent result of an apparent choice motivated by an apparent desire (All occurring within the dream) which arises out of a sense of lack which is sourced in consciousness by virtue of it's own limitations of awareness of Self. The choice, itself, has no real meaning. Phil BTW, I like to think that, while the interpretation may be " logical " , no processing was involved in the awareness that led to the interpretation. (Sounds like a disclaimer for a nature film. " No consciousnessses were harmed in the processing of this interpretation. " Okay, it must be getting late. Dear Phil: All that you speak of and about is quite logical processing Imo. What this logistic processing does not address is the choice for a " search for meaning " , the basis of all human experience. This search is the groundwork for all religion, all art, all abstractions of philosophy, science, etc. It is inherent in the human condition--an evolution of consciousness. Seen thru to its end, it is a search for unconditional love. Something given freely in the Being-ness we already always possess. The experience of enlightenment, framed in the linear movement of time, is to allow for the cognizing process to be 'seen' through. (Awareness of consciousness in the dreaming state--a lucid field of esperience in, of and as This--the I Am or Turiya and beyond--I Am That I Am.) Love, Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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