Guest guest Posted October 23, 2005 Report Share Posted October 23, 2005 Here is another example of that idespread wonderful dream to go on living. Werner --- P: You know it's important we understand how different images trigger the mind, and how they serve a soteriological purpose, but are not real, and shouldn't be taken to infer anything about reality. Ramana wasn't dead, he just imagine he was, and that worked for him, it doesn't for me and many others, and we shouldn't use his imagination to conclude anything about death. nnb On Oct 21, 2005, at 10:20 AM, mjb3000 wrote: > These are all very intriguing questions. (Those of the death > experience and how we view them in relation to what we are). > Especially so in that they make us examine what part of us is ego- like > vs presense-like. I am sure it would closely parallel Ramana's > instructions to ask " Who am I? " > > Apparantly Ramana experienced the death of his ego as part of his > awakening. I have not read anything describing that process for a few > years and do not recall his description of the process. > > .................................................... > > Here is one recount of the incident: > > In his seventeenth year, in full health and in normal waking state he > was suddenly overwhelmed with the fear of death and fully convinced > that death was imminent. The inexplicable feeling would not leave so > the boy began to ponder on the meaning of death. He was alone in his > upper story room at the time so he decided to act out death and > inquire into the meaning of it. He laid down with his arms stiffly at > his sides as if dead, held his breath and said to himself; " Now death > has come but what does it mean? What is it that is dying? The body > dies and is carried off to the cremation ground and reduced to ashes. > But with the death of the body, am I dead? Am I the body? This body is > now silent and inert but I feel the full force of my personality and > even the voice of the 'I' within me, apart from the body. So I am the > Spirit transcending the body. The body dies but the spirit that > transcends it cannot be touched by death. That means that I am the > deathless Spirit " . The awareness of this knowledge took full > possession of him, not at the level of mere mental awareness but at > the deeper level of complete spiritual self-awareness. He suddenly > became the Spirit and knew himself as That, no longer identifying > himself as merely the body form that had been called Venkataraman. > Self realization was instantaneous, complete, and irreversible. His > ego was lost in a flood of pure Self awareness. > > ...................................................... > > This seems opposed to those that have near-death experiences, etc. in > that Ramana seems to have voluntarily risked/tempted 'ego-loss' (which > does not seem to be a chosen activity of those having near-death > experiences). > > Perhaps the opportunity/death of the natural body does not > automatically rid us of ego; and that its psychical shell continues to > clothe us after bodily/brain death. Rather, it would be in the prior > understanding that the ego/body is more or less an instrument for use > which offers us the opportunity to experience the proper sorting out > of our various component parts. In other words, death will not > automatically erase our body based identifications. > > It would seem the varieties of Maya are very complex. > > > Brian > > NonDualPhil , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> wrote: >> >> >> On Oct 20, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Insight wrote: >> >>>> P: Would Joyce know she died? >>> >>> J: There will be knowing of what ever >>> there is to be known...much like now. I expect >>> that basically everything will be much the same, >>> with some differences. >>> >>> >> >> P: Could you elaborate on that. Who will be the knower? >> How can there be knowledge without memories, >> or senses, and a brain? >> What's everything? Remember I asked if Joyce will >> know she is dead? >> What you said above, sounds like a belief that >> a something which is now Joyce will be spared, >> but all sense of " I -ness " and any sense of identity >> are in the brain. And at a very superficial level at that. >> It doesn't even survive anesthesia, much less >> death. Of course, if believing Joyce will survive >> gives you comfort, then why not? But know it for what >> it is, just a hope propped up by improbable hypotheses. >> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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