Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 In a message dated 10/25/2005 8:35:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ADHHUB writes: There is talk of there being a dream....but no dreamer. Any thoughts on that? Well, I don't how a dream would arise without a dreamer, although it could be said that consciousness is operating under the delusion of limitation and is therefore not what it perceives itself to be. This seems to be what 'causes' the dream to occur. What does it mean when I start answering my own posts? Hehe. The intent of the question is clearer now. As long as ego seeks the dreamer of the dream as an independent entity, even if it's consciousness, it will never identify the Self, which is awareness from which consciousness arises. There is no 'individual' who is the dreamer of the dream. The terminology can be confusing because many will talk about consciousness as that which we are, which isn't wrong because consciousness isn't apart from awareness, but it can imply individuality, which would be misleading. There are no individuals. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 In a message dated 10/25/2005 9:11:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, cptc writes: There is talk of there being a dream....but no dreamer. > > Any thoughts on that? > > > > Well, I don't how a dream would arise without a dreamer, although it could > be said that consciousness is operating under the delusion of limitation and is > therefore not what it perceives itself to be. This seems to be what 'causes' > the dream to occur. > Perhaps the delusion of limitation is the collapse of the wave function....out of which the dream of illusory separation emerges. I have trouble conceptualizing how this occurs, perhaps wave function is as good as any. Awareness is the totality of all that is, and lacks nothing and therefore desires nothing. Awareness also does not perceive/experience in this conceptual state because all that exists is already within it's own 'field' since there is nothing outside of awareness, and the subject cannot perceive itself without an object. Awareness, in this 'state' is static; it does not create. And so, consciousness arises out of this awareness, (by what volition, I don't know) and this consciousness is conscious by virtue of it's unawareness of itself. This unawareness positions it as object to the purely subjective awareness, through which awareness may perceive Self. If consciousness becomes fully aware of Self, it dissolves back into awareness itself, since it no longer distinguishes itself as object, and the circle is complete. From this it becomes clear that only consciousness that remains ignorant of the totality of Self, can create illusion, or would create anything at all. It CAN create illusion because it isn't aware of it's own wholeness. It DOES create because it lacks wholeness, and therefore seeks wholeness. Creation is the outpicturing of desire itself, which is why the exploration of creation inevitably leads to the fulfillment of that desire for wholeness. Wei Wu Wei tells us that there in nothing beyond the dream. What say you? If by " nothing " is meant physical creation, that seems clear, but remember that awareness contains the illusion. From the perspective of the One, there is not the immersion within the illusion but the illusion remains a part of the One. I would suggest that there is isness (pure being) Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2005 Report Share Posted October 25, 2005 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/25/2005 8:20:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > cptc@w... writes: > > > There is talk of there being a dream....but no dreamer. > > Any thoughts on that? > > > > Well, I don't how a dream would arise without a dreamer, although it could > be said that consciousness is operating under the delusion of limitation and is > therefore not what it perceives itself to be. This seems to be what 'causes' > the dream to occur. > Perhaps the delusion of limitation is the collapse of the wave function....out of which the dream of illusory separation emerges. Wei Wu Wei tells us that there in nothing beyond the dream. What say you? toombaru > > > > I spent years playing with lucid dreaming and OOBS. > > Until it dawned that thisness is the most compelling conundrum > imaginable. > > Your words feel warm....I'm glad you are here. > > > toombaru > > > > > > Thank you, toombaru. Kindness is appreciated, especially where it's often > lacking. > > Phil > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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