I am That, Chap 13

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The Supreme, the Mind and the Body

 

Q: From what you have told us, it appears that you are

not quite conscious of your surrounding. To us you seem extremely alert and

active. We cannot possible believe that you  are in a kind of hypnotic state,

which leaves no memory behind. On the contrary, your memory seems excellent. How

are we to understand your statement that the world and all it includes does not

exist, as far as you are concerned?

 

Maharaj: It is all a matter of focus. Your mind is focused in the

world; mine is focused in reality. It is like the moon in daylight - when the

sun shines, the moon is hardly visible. Or, watch how you take your food. As

long as it is in your mouth, you are conscious of it; once swallowed, it does

not concern you any longer. It would be troublesome to have it constantly in

mind until it is eliminated. The mind should be normally in abeyance -incessant

activity is a morbid state. The universe works by itself -that I know. What else

do I need to know?  

Q: So a gnani knows what he is doing only when he turns his

mind to it; otherwise he just acts, without being concerned.  

M: The average man is not conscious of his body as such. He is

conscious of his sensations, feelings and thoughts. Even these, once detachment

sets in, moves away from the center of consciousness and happens spontaneously

and effortlessly.  

Q: What then is in the center of consciousness?

 

M: That which cannot be given name or form, for it is without

quality and beyond consciousness. You may say it is a point in consciousness.

Like a hole in the paper is both in the paper and yet not of paper, so is the

supreme state in the very center of consciousness, and yet beyond consciousness.

It is as if there were an opening in the mind through which the mind flooded

with light. The opening is not even the light. It is just and opening.  

Q: An opening is just a void, absence.

 

M: Quite so. From the mind's point of view, it is but and opening

for the light of awareness to enter the mental space. By itself the light can

only be compared to a solid, dense, rocklike, homogeneous and changeless mass of

pure awareness, free from the mental patterns of name and shape.

 

Q: Is there any connection between the mental space and the

supreme abode?

 

M: The supreme gives existence to the mind. The mind gives

existence to the body.

 

Q: And what lies beyond?

 

M: Take as an example. A venerable yogi, a master in the art of

longevity, himself over 1000 year old, comes to teach me his art. I fully

respect and sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can tell him is: of

what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time. However long a life may be it is

but a moment and a dream. In the same way I am beyond all attributes. They

appear and disappear in my light, but cannot describe me. The universe is all

names and forms, based on qualities and their differences, while I am beyond.

The world is there because I am, but I am not the world.  

Q: But you're living in the world!

 

M: That's what you say! I know there is a world, which includes

this body and this mind, but I do not consider them to be more 'mine' than other

minds and bodies. They are there in time and space, but I am timeless and

spaceless.

 

Q: But since all exists by your light, are you not the creator of the

world?

 

M: I am neither the potentiality nor the actualization, nor the

actuality of things, In my light they come and go as the specks of dust dancing

in the sunbeams. The light illumines the specks, but does not depend of them.

Nor can it be said to create them. It cannot be even said to know them.

 

Q: I am asking you a question and you are answering. Are you

conscious of the question and the answer?  

M: In reality I am neither hearing nor answering. In the world

of events the question happens and the answer happens. Nothing happens to me.

Everything just happens.

 

Q: Are you the witness?

 

M: What does witness mean? Mere knowledge. It rains and

now the rain is over. I did not get wet. I know it rained, but I am not

affected. I just witness the rain.

 

Q: The fully realized man, spontaneously abiding in the supreme

state, appears to eat, drink, and so on. Is he aware of it, or not?  

M: That in which consciousness happens, the universal

consciousness or mind, we call the either of consciousness. All the objects of

consciousness form the universe. What is beyond both, supporting both, is the

supreme state, a state of utter stillness and silence. Whoever goes there,

disappears. It is unreachable by words, or mind. You may call it God, or

Parabrahman, or supreme Reality, but these are names given by the mind. It is

the nameless, contentless, effortless and spontaneous state, beyond being and

not being.  

Q: But does it remain conscious?

 

M: As the universe is the body of the mind, so it consciousness

the body of the supreme. It is not conscious, but it gives rise to

consciousness.  

Q: In my daily action much goes by habit, automatically. I am

aware of the general purpose, but not of each movement in detail As my

consciousness broadens and deepens, details tend to recede, leaving me free for

the general trends. Does not the same happen to a gnani, but more so?

 

M: On the level of consciousness - yes. In the supreme state, no.

This state is entirely one and indivisible, a single solid block of reality. the

only way of knowing it is to be it. The mind cannot reach it. To perceive it,

does not need the senses; to know it, does not need the mind

 

Q: That is how God runs the world.

 

M: God is not running the world.

 

Q: Then who is doing it?

 

M: Nobody. All happens by itself. You are asking the question

and you are supplying the answer. And you know the answer when you ask the

question. All is a play in consciousness. All divisions are illusory. You can

know the false only. The truth you must yourself be

 

Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the

witnessing consciousness. Is the second the supreme?  

M: There are the two - the person and the witness, the observer.

When you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state. It is not

perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible. It is beyond being

and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the image in the mirror. It is what

is - the timeless reality, unbelievable hard and solid.  

Q: The gnani - is he the witness or the Supreme "

 

M: He is the Supreme, of course, but he can also be viewed as

the universal witness.

 

Q: But he remains a person?

 

M: When you believe yourself to be a person, you see persons

everywhere. In reality there are no persons, only threads of memories and

habits. At the moment of realization the person ceases. Identity remains, but

identity has no being in itself; it is a reflection in the mind of the witness,

the ''I am', which again is a mode of being.

 

Q: Is the Supreme conscious?

 

M: Nether conscious no unconscious, I am telling you from

experience.

 

Q: Pragnanam Brahma. What is this Pragna?

 

M: It is the unselfconscious knowledge of life itself.

 

Q: It is vitality, the energy of life, livingness?

 

M: Energy comes first. For everything is a form of energy.

Consciousness is most differentiated in the waking state. Less so in dream.

Still less in sleep. Homogeneous - in the fourth state. Beyond is the

inexpressible monolithic reality, the abode of the gnani.

 

Q: I have cut my hand. It healed, by what power did it heal?

 

M: By the power of life.

 

Q: What is that power?

 

M: It is consciousness. All is conscious.

 

Q: What is the source of consciousness?

 

M: Consciousness itself is the source of everything.

 

Q; Can there be life without consciousness?  

M: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in

reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form. And as long

as you cling to the idea that only what has name and shape exists, the Supreme

will appear to you non-existing. When you understand that names and shapes are

hollow shells without and content whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and

formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace -

immersed in the deep silence of reality.  

Q: If time and space are mere illusions and you are beyond, please

tell me what is the weather in New York. Is it hot or raining there?  

M: How can I tell you? Such things need special training. Or,

just traveling to New York? I may be quite certain that I am beyond time and

space, and yet unable to locate myself at will at some point of time and space.

I am not interested enough; I see no purpose in undergoing a special Yogic

training. I have just heard of New York. To me it is a word. Why should I know

more than the word conveys? every atom may be universe, as complex as ours. Must

I know them all? I can - if it train.  

Q: In putting the question about the weather in New York where

did I make the mistake?

 

M: The world and the mind are states of being. The supreme is

not a state. It pervades all states, but is is not a state of something else.

It is entirely uncaused, independent, complete in itself, beyond time and space,

mind and matter.

 

Q: By what sign do you recognize it?

 

M: That's the point - it leaves no traces. There is nothing to

recognize it by. It must be seen directly, by giving up all searching for signs

and approaches. When all names and forms have been given up, the real is with

you. You need not seek it. Plurality and diversity are the play of the mind only

.. Reality is one.  

Q: If reality leaves no evidence, there is no speaking about it.

 

M: It is, It cannot be denied. it is deep and dark, mystery beyond

mystery. But it is, while all merely happens.  

Q: Is it the Unknown?

 

M: It is beyond both, the known and the unknown. But I would

rather call it the known, then the unknown. For whenever something is known, it

is the real that is known.  

Q: Is silence an attribute of the real?

 

M: This too is of the mind. All states and conditions are of the

mind.

 

Q: What is the place of samadhi?

 

M: Not making use of one's consciousness is samadhi. You just

leave your mind alone. You want nothing, neither from your body nor your mind.

 

 

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love, Era

 

 

 

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