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[NonDualPhil] I am That, Chap 13 Niz

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On Oct 26, 2005, at 9:23 AM, Era wrote:

 

> The Supreme, the Mind and the Body

>  

> Q: From what you have told us, it appears that you are

> not quite conscious of your surrounding. To us you seem extremely

> alert and active. We cannot possible believe that you  are in a kind

> of hypnotic state, which leaves no memory behind. On the contrary,

> your memory seems excellent. How are we to understand your statement

> that the world and all it includes does not exist, as far as you are

> concerned?

>  

> Maharaj: It is all a matter of focus. Your mind is focused in the

> world; mine is focused in reality. It is like the moon in daylight -

> when the sun shines, the moon is hardly visible. Or, watch how you

> take your food. As long as it is in your mouth, you are conscious of

> it; once swallowed, it does not concern you any longer. It would be

> troublesome to have it constantly in mind until it is eliminated. The

> mind should be normally in abeyance -incessant activity is a morbid

> state. The universe works by itself -that I know. What else do I need

> to know?  

> Q: So a gnani knows what he is doing only when he turns his

> mind to it; otherwise he just acts, without being concerned.  

> M: The average man is not conscious of his body as such. He is

> conscious of his sensations, feelings and thoughts. Even these, once

> detachment sets in, moves away from the center of consciousness and

> happens spontaneously and effortlessly.  

> Q: What then is in the center of consciousness?

>  

> M: That which cannot be given name or form, for it is without

> quality and beyond consciousness. You may say it is a point in

> consciousness. Like a hole in the paper is both in the paper and yet

> not of paper, so is the supreme state in the very center of

> consciousness, and yet beyond consciousness. It is as if there were an

> opening in the mind through which the mind flooded with light. The

> opening is not even the light. It is just and opening.  

> Q: An opening is just a void, absence.

>  

> M: Quite so. From the mind's point of view, it is but and opening

> for the light of awareness to enter the mental space. By itself the

> light can only be compared to a solid, dense, rocklike, homogeneous

> and changeless mass of pure awareness, free from the mental patterns

> of name and shape.

>  

> Q: Is there any connection between the mental space and the

> supreme abode?

>  

> M: The supreme gives existence to the mind. The mind gives

> existence to the body.

>  

> Q: And what lies beyond?

>  

> M: Take as an example. A venerable yogi, a master in the art of

> longevity, himself over 1000 year old, comes to teach me his art. I

> fully respect and sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can

> tell him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time. However

> long a life may be it is but a moment and a dream. In the same way I

> am beyond all attributes. They appear and disappear in my light, but

> cannot describe me. The universe is all names and forms, based on

> qualities and their differences, while I am beyond. The world is there

> because I am, but I am not the world.  

> Q: But you're living in the world!

>  

> M: That's what you say! I know there is a world, which includes

> this body and this mind, but I do not consider them to be more 'mine'

> than other minds and bodies. They are there in time and space, but I

> am timeless and spaceless.

>  

> Q: But since all exists by your light, are you not the creator of the

> world?

>  

> M: I am neither the potentiality nor the actualization, nor the

> actuality of things, In my light they come and go as the specks of

> dust dancing in the sunbeams. The light illumines the specks, but does

> not depend of them. Nor can it be said to create them. It cannot be

> even said to know them.

>  

> Q: I am asking you a question and you are answering. Are you

> conscious of the question and the answer?  

> M: In reality I am neither hearing nor answering. In the world

> of events the question happens and the answer happens. Nothing happens

> to me. Everything just happens.

>  

> Q: Are you the witness?

>  

> M: What does witness mean? Mere knowledge. It rains and

> now the rain is over. I did not get wet. I know it rained, but I am

> not affected. I just witness the rain.

>  

> Q: The fully realized man, spontaneously abiding in the supreme

> state, appears to eat, drink, and so on. Is he aware of it, or not?  

> M: That in which consciousness happens, the universal

> consciousness or mind, we call the either of consciousness. All the

> objects of consciousness form the universe. What is beyond both,

> supporting both, is the supreme state, a state of utter stillness and

> silence. Whoever goes there, disappears. It is unreachable by words,

> or mind. You may call it God, or Parabrahman, or supreme Reality, but

> these are names given by the mind. It is the nameless, contentless,

> effortless and spontaneous state, beyond being and not being.  

> Q: But does it remain conscious?

>  

> M: As the universe is the body of the mind, so it consciousness

> the body of the supreme. It is not conscious, but it gives rise to

> consciousness.  

> Q: In my daily action much goes by habit, automatically. I am

> aware of the general purpose, but not of each movement in detail As my

> consciousness broadens and deepens, details tend to recede, leaving me

> free for the general trends. Does not the same happen to a gnani, but

> more so?

>  

> M: On the level of consciousness - yes. In the supreme state, no.

> This state is entirely one and indivisible, a single solid block of

> reality. the only way of knowing it is to be it. The mind cannot reach

> it. To perceive it, does not need the senses; to know it, does not

> need the mind

>  

> Q: That is how God runs the world.

>  

> M: God is not running the world.

>  

> Q: Then who is doing it?

>  

> M: Nobody. All happens by itself. You are asking the question

> and you are supplying the answer. And you know the answer when you ask

> the question. All is a play in consciousness. All divisions are

> illusory. You can know the false only. The truth you must yourself be

>  

> Q: There is the witnessed consciousness and there is the

> witnessing consciousness. Is the second the supreme?  

> M: There are the two - the person and the witness, the observer.

> When you see them as one, and go beyond, you are in the supreme state.

> It is not perceivable, because it is what makes perception possible.

> It is beyond being and not being. It is neither the mirror nor the

> image in the mirror. It is what is - the timeless reality,

> unbelievable hard and solid.  

> Q: The gnani - is he the witness or the Supreme "

>  

> M: He is the Supreme, of course, but he can also be viewed as

> the universal witness.

>  

> Q: But he remains a person?

>  

> M: When you believe yourself to be a person, you see persons

> everywhere. In reality there are no persons, only threads of memories

> and habits. At the moment of realization the person ceases. Identity

> remains, but identity has no being in itself; it is a reflection in

> the mind of the witness, the ''I am', which again is a mode of being.

>  

> Q: Is the Supreme conscious?

>  

> M: Nether conscious no unconscious, I am telling you from

> experience.

>  

> Q: Pragnanam Brahma. What is this Pragna?

>  

> M: It is the unselfconscious knowledge of life itself.

>  

> Q: It is vitality, the energy of life, livingness?

>  

> M: Energy comes first. For everything is a form of energy.

> Consciousness is most differentiated in the waking state. Less so in

> dream. Still less in sleep. Homogeneous - in the fourth state. Beyond

> is the inexpressible monolithic reality, the abode of the gnani.

>  

> Q: I have cut my hand. It healed, by what power did it heal?

>  

> M: By the power of life.

>  

> Q: What is that power?

>  

> M: It is consciousness. All is conscious.

>  

> Q: What is the source of consciousness?

>  

> M: Consciousness itself is the source of everything.

>  

> Q; Can there be life without consciousness?  

> M: No, nor consciousness without life. They are both one. But in

> reality only the Ultimate is. The rest is a matter of name and form.

> And as long as you cling to the idea that only what has name and shape

> exists, the Supreme will appear to you non-existing. When you

> understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without and content

> whatsoever, and what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy of

> life and light of consciousness, you will be at peace - immersed in

> the deep silence of reality.  

> Q: If time and space are mere illusions and you are beyond, please

> tell me what is the weather in New York. Is it hot or raining there?  

> M: How can I tell you? Such things need special training. Or,

> just traveling to New York? I may be quite certain that I am beyond

> time and space, and yet unable to locate myself at will at some point

> of time and space. I am not interested enough; I see no purpose in

> undergoing a special Yogic training. I have just heard of New York. To

> me it is a word. Why should I know more than the word conveys? every

> atom may be universe, as complex as ours. Must I know them all? I can

> - if it train.  

> Q: In putting the question about the weather in New York where

> did I make the mistake?

>  

> M: The world and the mind are states of being. The supreme is

> not a state. It pervades all states, but is is not a state of

> something else.

> It is entirely uncaused, independent, complete in itself, beyond time

> and space, mind and matter.

>  

> Q: By what sign do you recognize it?

>  

> M: That's the point - it leaves no traces. There is nothing to

> recognize it by. It must be seen directly, by giving up all searching

> for signs and approaches. When all names and forms have been given up,

> the real is with you. You need not seek it. Plurality and diversity

> are the play of the mind only . Reality is one.  

> Q: If reality leaves no evidence, there is no speaking about it.

>  

> M: It is, It cannot be denied. it is deep and dark, mystery beyond

> mystery. But it is, while all merely happens.  

> Q: Is it the Unknown?

>  

> M: It is beyond both, the known and the unknown. But I would

> rather call it the known, then the unknown. For whenever something is

> known, it is the real that is known.  

> Q: Is silence an attribute of the real?

>  

> M: This too is of the mind. All states and conditions are of the

> mind.

>  

> Q: What is the place of samadhi?

>  

> M: Not making use of one's consciousness is samadhi. You just

> leave your mind alone. You want nothing, neither from your body nor

> your mind.

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~

> love, Era

>

>

> .

>

 

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