Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old people walking on the streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and behave like belonging to noblility. But in reality they are the very poor ones living on small pensions or on welfare in the slums. Their fancy garments is the only of some value they ever owned. And so those sundays are their chance to live some dream and to demonstrate that they still were not broken by that desperate filth they have to live in. When reading most posts, not only here but also on other lists I get the impression same is happening there. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old people walking on the > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and behave like belonging > to noblility. But in reality they are the very poor ones living on > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value they ever owned. And so > those sundays are their chance to live some dream and to demonstrate > that they still were not broken by that desperate filth they have to > live in. > > When reading most posts, not only here but also on other lists I get > the impression same is happening there. > > Werner > he heh I see what you mean Werner Era .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Dear friends, in centre of Paris, near Louvre, lives very kind, nice man, pure being, real disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj, Paul Vervish, do you know him? you can see him on video tape with Maharaj. sv.aha > > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old > people walking on the > > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and > behave like belonging > > to noblility. But in reality they are the very > poor ones living on > > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value > they ever owned. And so > > those sundays are their chance to live some dream > and to demonstrate > > that they still were not broken by that desperate > filth they have to > > live in. > > > > When reading most posts, not only here but also on > other lists I get > > the impression same is happening there. > > > > Werner > > > > he heh > > I see what you mean Werner > > > Era > > . > > > > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Dear Ales, That video I watched several times but I didn't pay much attention to the names. This evening I will have a look at it and try not to miss the name you mentioned. Have you met Paul Vernish already face to face ? Werner Nisargadatta , ales adamek <svahapraha> wrote: > > > Dear friends, > > in centre of Paris, near Louvre, lives very kind, nice > man, pure being, real disciple of Nisargadatta > Maharaj, Paul Vervish, do you know him? > > you can see him on video tape with Maharaj. > > sv.aha > > > > > > > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old > > people walking on the > > > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and > > behave like belonging > > > to noblility. But in reality they are the very > > poor ones living on > > > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > > > > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value > > they ever owned. And so > > > those sundays are their chance to live some dream > > and to demonstrate > > > that they still were not broken by that desperate > > filth they have to > > > live in. > > > > > > When reading most posts, not only here but also on > > other lists I get > > > the impression same is happening there. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > he heh > > > > I see what you mean Werner > > > > > > Era > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. > http://farechase. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old people walking on the > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and behave like belonging > to noblility. But in reality they are the very poor ones living on > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value they ever owned. And so > those sundays are their chance to live some dream and to demonstrate > that they still were not broken by that desperate filth they have to > live in. > > When reading most posts, not only here but also on other lists I get > the impression same is happening there. > > Werner > This is wonderful.....and painful. Thank you toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old people walking on the > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed and behave like belonging > to noblility. But in reality they are the very poor ones living on > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value they ever owned. And so > those sundays are their chance to live some dream and to demonstrate > that they still were not broken by that desperate filth they have to > live in. > > When reading most posts, not only here but also on other lists I get > the impression same is happening there. > > Werner > Once you already have a preconceived idea, it is not too difficult to visualize things as supporting it! .... I just see some messages appearing... with some name and ids... Sometimes, I find them funny. Sometimes insightful... Sometimes insightful... Sometimes witty.... Sometimes kind... Sometimes scornful... ....... Sometimes based on beliefs... Sometimes based on imaginations, fascinations... Sometimes based on some pain... Sometimes needing to 'control'... ..... Just some messages appearing. I don't really know much about that which writes them. Rarely I find it necessary to try to 'guess' their personal reality. ..... I have never visited Paris... But, when I see nicely dressed people seating in cafes in SFO... I see nicely dressed people sitting in cafes. I rarely try to guess what might be their real reality or motive. is that really necessary? ..... is this version less true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 adithya_comming wrote: > Once you already have a preconceived > idea, it is not too difficult to > visualize things as supporting it! > > ... True. Can you think of any idea which is not preconceived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2005 Report Share Posted November 1, 2005 > .... > > > I have never visited Paris... > > But, when I see nicely dressed people > seating in cafes in SFO... > > I see nicely > dressed people sitting in cafes. > > I rarely try to guess what might be > their real reality or motive. > > is that really necessary? > > > .... > > > is this version less true? > The identification as an entity is a facade.....a painful delusion that needs constant reinforcing. It is a survival biased existence...driven by the ever present fear of impending extinction. The belief that one is an individual makes one vulnerable to a multitude of frightening possibilities......any one of which could lead to its own imagined demise. For the imagined individual......it is not a dream of separation..... a manic-depressive bi- polar nightmare of solitary confinement. The Buddha called it suffering................He was being kind. Ok........................ Wanna hear the good news? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Dear Werner, yes, I met him in paris and he visited last week prague. he is a real oneness, i was touched by his devotion to his guru, nisargadatta maharaj. no criticism, just love, and in ramesh balsekar case just criticism, no love to his guru, nisargadatta maharaj sv.aha --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr wrote: > Dear Ales, > > That video I watched several times but I didn't pay > much attention to > the names. This evening I will have a look at it and > try not to miss > the name you mentioned. > > Have you met Paul Vernish already face to face ? > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , ales adamek > <svahapraha> > wrote: > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > in centre of Paris, near Louvre, lives very kind, > nice > > man, pure being, real disciple of Nisargadatta > > Maharaj, Paul Vervish, do you know him? > > > > you can see him on video tape with Maharaj. > > > > sv.aha > > > > > > > > > > > > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old > > > people walking on the > > > > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed > and > > > behave like belonging > > > > to noblility. But in reality they are the very > > > poor ones living on > > > > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > > > > > > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value > > > they ever owned. And so > > > > those sundays are their chance to live some > dream > > > and to demonstrate > > > > that they still were not broken by that > desperate > > > filth they have to > > > > live in. > > > > > > > > When reading most posts, not only here but > also on > > > other lists I get > > > > the impression same is happening there. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > he heh > > > > > > I see what you mean Werner > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in > one click. > > http://farechase. > > > > > > > Start your day with - Make it your home page! http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Fine, Ales, Yesterday I watched again the Maharaj video and now I know who of those pople is Paul Vervish. Indeed, he semmed to be a simple gnuine man. Werner Nisargadatta , ales adamek <svahapraha> wrote: > > > Dear Werner, > > yes, I met him in paris and he visited last week > prague. he is a real oneness, i was touched by his > devotion to his guru, nisargadatta maharaj. > > no criticism, just love, > and in ramesh balsekar case just criticism, no love to > his guru, nisargadatta maharaj > > sv.aha > > > --- Werner Woehr <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > Dear Ales, > > > > That video I watched several times but I didn't pay > > much attention to > > the names. This evening I will have a look at it and > > try not to miss > > the name you mentioned. > > > > Have you met Paul Vernish already face to face ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ales adamek > > <svahapraha> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear friends, > > > > > > in centre of Paris, near Louvre, lives very kind, > > nice > > > man, pure being, real disciple of Nisargadatta > > > Maharaj, Paul Vervish, do you know him? > > > > > > you can see him on video tape with Maharaj. > > > > > > sv.aha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On sundays in Paris you can meet a lot of old > > > > people walking on the > > > > > streets or sitting in cafes which are dressed > > and > > > > behave like belonging > > > > > to noblility. But in reality they are the very > > > > poor ones living on > > > > > small pensions or on welfare in the slums. > > > > > > > > > > Their fancy garments is the only of some value > > > > they ever owned. And so > > > > > those sundays are their chance to live some > > dream > > > > and to demonstrate > > > > > that they still were not broken by that > > desperate > > > > filth they have to > > > > > live in. > > > > > > > > > > When reading most posts, not only here but > > also on > > > > other lists I get > > > > > the impression same is happening there. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > he heh > > > > > > > > I see what you mean Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Era > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in > > one click. > > > http://farechase. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Start your day with - Make it your home page! > http://www./r/hs > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 In a message dated 11/2/2005 6:54:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: adithya_comming wrote: > Once you already have a preconceived > idea, it is not too difficult to > visualize things as supporting it! > > ... True. Can you think of any idea which is not preconceived? One can simply look at what is, rather than one's ideas about what is. In practice, it's much like looking 'past' the ideas by ignoring them. Behind the idea of what is, lies the truth of what is, waiting to be noticed. This is so with human 'truth' just as it is with Truth. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Phil, It is sheer self-delusion and self-cheating to believe one could simply look at what is (or to have a quiet mind, or to lead a virtuous life, etc). That what gets conscious is already preprocessed by the brain and it is not reversible and there is also no doer who could influence the brain's processing of sensual inputs. All appearances are not what is but what the brain allowed to get conscious. Happy self-delusion on your path to cheat yourself and others by parrotting all that spiritual and nondual crap you have read. Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/2/2005 6:54:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > adithya_comming wrote: > > > Once you already have a preconceived > > idea, it is not too difficult to > > visualize things as supporting it! > > > > ... > > True. Can you think of any idea which is not preconceived? > > > > One can simply look at what is, rather than one's ideas about what is. In > practice, it's much like looking 'past' the ideas by ignoring them. Behind the > idea of what is, lies the truth of what is, waiting to be noticed. This is so > with human 'truth' just as it is with Truth. > > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 2, 2005 Report Share Posted November 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/2/2005 6:54:26 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > adithya_comming wrote: > > > Once you already have a preconceived > > idea, it is not too difficult to > > visualize things as supporting it! > > > > ... > > True. Can you think of any idea which is not preconceived? > > > > One can simply look at what is, rather than one's ideas about what is. In > practice, it's much like looking 'past' the ideas by ignoring them. Behind the > idea of what is, lies the truth of what is, waiting to be noticed. This is so > with human 'truth' just as it is with Truth. > > Phil > Every-thing that you think you see...exists only as an idea. 'Truth' is a conceptual overlay....only another idea. There is no truth in nature. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: >...Can you think of any idea which is not preconceived? >One can simply look at what is, rather than one's ideas about what is. ... hallihallo... did it never occur to you that all you perceive are ideas? What else is " perception " than having ideas? The stuff which is prior to ideas is in darkness... the moment it dawns(!) to you it is an idea. And in darkness... there is no perceiver. Nobody to " simply look what is " . I prefer to call perception as is... and conclude that everybody already and always sees what is. We are all truly living in truth. From where perception happens - your home, your source - has been called wordless wonder here, some time ago. And it might not be existent, but this is irrelevant. Being is simply relaxed. ....ollahillah (Stefan) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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