You can not know the Absolute_____YES _BUT

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote:

>

>

>

> I want direct experience of the Ultimate. Prior to

Consciousness..Nisargadatta

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>  

> Q: I want direct experience of the Ultimate.

>

> Maharaj: The Absolute cannot be experienced.  It is not an

objective affair. When I am

> unicity then that is pure awareness which is not aware of its

awareness, and there can be no subject and object - therefore there

can be no witnessing. Any manifestation, and functioning,

> any witnessing, can only take

> place in duality.  There has to

> be a subject and an object, they are two, but they are not two,

> they are two ends of the same thing.

>

> When consciousness stirs, duality

> arises.  There are millions of objects, but each object, when

> it sees another, assumes the subjectivity of the Absolute, although

it is an object. I, as

> an object, perceive and interpret all the other objects, and I

assume that I am the subject, and the witnessing takes place.

>

> Q: Why does consciousness stir? What is the cause?

>

> M: With any cause, spontaneously, it happens; there is no

reason. That consciousness is universal - there is no individuality.

But when the consciousness stirs in a particular form which has also

arisen spontaneously, and start functioning in that form, that form

assumes that it is an individual and what is unlimited limits itself

to a particular form and the trouble starts.

>

> Let us say that someone has become a jnani, but what was it to

begin with?  It was that sour, bitter, principle, that secretion

because of which the consciousness has taken place. That very

principle, the knowledge " I " Am, " has developed, grown, and become

sweet; it matures and becomes the manifest jnani state; but what is

that; It is the product of the five elemental food essence. When that

goes, what remains?

> The Absolute which does not know itself.

>

> Q:  The desire for liberation is also a desire, isn't it?

>

> M:  Don't talk about liberation, talk about yourself, what you

are.  When you understand that, both knowledge and ignorance

disappear.  You only require knowledge so long as the ignorance it

there.

 

 

This is similar to the practitioners of modern day buddhists.

>

> A knowledgeable person can tell anything to an ignorant person to

remove his ignorance.  For that purpose he takes the aid of the so-

called worldly knowledge, concepts, and both the worldly conceptual

knowledge and the ignorance go simultaneously.  A jnani will give you

any concepts to remove you ignorance.  This " I Amness " is the

knowledge and you are embracing that.  To remove that he gives you

all these concepts; to understand that you are not this " I Amness "

which is an outcome of the food essence product.  Once you realize

that, whatever concepts he has given you, together with this " I

Amness, " are to be thrown out.  What remain is the Absolute.

>

>

> This is the actual state of affairs.  You can never say I am like

this or that - you are without knowledge. 

Rarely will one understand this and transcend the domain of

consciousness.

>

> After listening to my talks, you think it is all very simple, but

it is not that easy.  

>

>

> jnani = knower

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> 12/7/1980

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>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~

> love, Era

>

The critic Jacques Derrida, for example, asserts that one can never

be sure that what one knows corresponds with what is. Since human

beings participate in only an infinitesimal part of the whole, they

are unable to grasp anything with certainty, and absolutes are

merely " fictional forms. "

 

 

yes Era, nihilism is alive and well and comes in many forms. What is

being purported by Nisa. is one " non-concept " if you wish of it,

which is not according to him.

 

However, there is an interesting answer which is similar to an answer

somewhere in a Bhudda Q & A, which is, " it's rarely attained " . This

is the nice catch to keep bringing one back to practice otherwise

what someone has been able to make you believe he's attained. The old

addage, 'i have something most valuable and you can you can

have ''if''. It is common answer but here you present that point.

 

There is no mystery for a self realized mystic who has attained to

the personal intimacy of the Lord through perfect submission and

completely purging of all personal motives 'in thought'.

 

For the spirit is an active principal and is alive. Therefore, since

it's make up is part of the eternal Self it is unified in Onesness,

when it no longer sees the self as different from but a 'co-equal

part' and then is an instrument or a functional part of.

 

For eg there is a car, it is one moving unit, but it's make up is

many parts. When you enter the unit you to become a part and are

moving with yet not seperate from, correct. However, you are not the

car. But temporarily you are part of.

 

Now enter universe, and moving parts, since you are a part of a part

in principal, you are an active living part then you have a function

as a moving part. For eg. the wheel is a moving part of the car, the

seat is also in part, and will end up at the same place.

 

Likewise dead stones move as the World moves around.

 

 

What impersonal philosophy tries to achieve is through a negative

process of jnani, in character a nihilist, or language meaningless,

or nothingingness and in theory oneness.

But note how Nisa, says " what the jnani proposes is to be thrown out,

and what remains is ____Absolute. "

 

Interesting, right, there still remains _____Absolute which is, and

is not nothing.

So word jugglery renders his own self to conclude the ___Absolute.

 

Now somewhere, and i have not his teachings he will problably

conclude that it's all about love. ____i'm hazarding a guess here,

but i've encountered impersonalists before. The are adept at

disguising the Absloute, whereas the Holy Prophets live in the

Absloute, therefore submerged in love. That is the perfection of

life, even as taught by your eastern guru's who teach from

a 'personalist' position. But they too fall short. And i will not

bring that point forth here.

 

 

These are not knewly proposed theories at all, but is destructive to

the 'true nature' of the 'perfect self' which is infintessimal self

or spirit-soul full of bliss and knowlege, in eternal conscience.

 

This is the perfect teachings of the Bible, Jesus and the Holy

Prophets concluding in the perfect state of peace or semadhi.

 

i know how you like all those eastern words, they sound more

appropriate when discussing the subject of life, eternity ++++++.

 

i am very familar with all schools of thought even the ones of try to

purport to deny thought, but this is my 'raison d'etre.' In time with

you shall know as ' i am' friend and confidant of Her in Him. You

shall come to honour your (eternal)Mother and your Father, or you

shall continue in 'guna' or ignorance mode again another life.

Have you not read what the Prophets said?

 

Probably not, and if so, your teachers are not, were not realized

souis in the Holy Spirit. That's why you discard the Bible as

foolishness or just some fairy tales_____blah blah blah, _______.

 

Therefore, these eastern so called philosophies, are intriguing.

i understand, been there done my homework.

 

if i told you my homework has always been God's work and never the

education or traditions of socialism, you might just call me a liar,

bs'er b/c it's easy, this internet makes it is easy to do that.

 

But my whole life is accountable even to what i just said, i'm not

lying. lol.

 

You have preconceived ideas about me like i have about you, which is

normal. But each of us is based on our beliefs and comprehesion or

the acceptance of what we have learned.

 

Back to Nisa,'s philosophy, " forget all that " , 'let's get on even

ground' is basically what he's purporting. But then he concludes back

to an Absolute, which is something not nothing. i agree in theory but

not in principal.

Where his process of denial, turns to 'pure abstract' and my proposal

as with the Holy Prophets turns into 'pure love'.

 

question : Which do you prefer?

 

fill in the blank.

 

 

_____

 

 

 

the whitehorserides again.