You can not know the Absolute ___YES,,, PERSONALLY.!

[Guest guest]

Nisargadatta , " ramanama06 " <ramanama06>

wrote:

>

>

> human and jnani are not shared identities. where light is, darkness

is not. why talk about

> the non-existing darkness in a brightly lit room? knowing and being

are not the same. why

> concern yourself with an absolute identity which does not know

itself? the absolute has no

> need to know itself.

 

 

ramana,

 

_______and what?. Something learned by turning the light switch on or

off.

i would agree if the the light bulb where your analogy, which is to

say 'has know mind or active living principal ie soul.'

 

However the Absolute is just that " " " Manifest Absolute " " " and in full

awareness of all things. Just like you can recognize when someone

touches your leg or arm. He may not be directly touching your mind,

or spirit, but you're still are aware. Therefore abolutely aware in

the body you are in. So you can discern the mind is not the body.

 

Now somehow you have said the 'absolute does not know itself', that's

like saying you don't know who you are, quite a foolish premise. It

is valid for explaining that you are not the name or body, but it

stops there.( notice how you give no heed to the Absolute, your

absolute shows no humility to " Supreme Absolute " .)

 

There is an active principal, called spirit, that is deducting these

ideas or concepts, yes or no? The mind does not deduce, it's the

intelligence that operates in an awakened state to deduce. When you

are sleeping, you are essentially in darkness b/c the intelligence

has taken rest. However, you are still present in a quiet state, you

have not disappeared. your feelings as well are present to the touch

but your emotions are quiet.

 

You are correct in saying the Absolute has no need, but the Absolute

has allready come and committed to the active ' manifested'

principal. That is expanded into little souls. Why? you may ask? Then

enter into conversation with Him, that is good, and can be a good

beginning to prayer, and awakening that inner self to recognize that

an 'eternal loving relationship' exists.

 

You cannot deny that happiness, or sadness or pain and pleasure is

coming. Therefore who is sending it, is the Good Question?

Since by observance you can see that there is a provision for all

living things, then you must conclude provider. Who is provding,

what, how, why?

These are questions that phd scientist are trying to prove with all

their space flights looking for the smoking gun for the source of

life or other like places wherein is life. But they struggle b/c

their efforts are in vain. They have not faith and trust in the Holy

Spirit or God who manifests Himself in His own sons who are sent sons.

 

As is written and confirmed over and over, Jeremmiah repeated " I,

God, have sent you my sons rising early, which implies, lighted, but

you don't listen to them, preferring your own whims of living, this

is dualism, hence you leave me no choice but to cast you into

deserts " .

 

Perhaps you might not understand and inquire further as to what is

said, i'm not too sure you are hearing.

 

 

i shall now post comments below, in addition.

>

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 11/27/2005 10:47:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Q: I want direct experience of the Ultimate.

> >

> > Maharaj: The Absolute cannot be experienced. It is not an

objective affair.

> > When I am

> > unicity then that is pure awareness which is not aware of its

awareness, and

> > there can be no subject and object - therefore there can be no

witnessing.

> > Any manifestation, and functioning,

> > any witnessing, can only take

> > place in duality. There has to

> > be a subject and an object, they are two, but they are not two,

> > they are two ends of the same thing.

> >

> > When consciousness stirs, duality

> > arises. There are millions of objects, but each object, when

> > it sees another, assumes the subjectivity of the Absolute,

although it is an

> > object. I, as

> > an object, perceive and interpret all the other objects, and I

assume that I

> > am the subject, and the witnessing takes place.

 

 

_____________maharaja's expression is a rehearsed practice from the

mayavadi philosophy of impersonalism. This is not knew, for the

Indian history. One of there most prominent exponents of this, was

Sankaracharya, approximately 550 AD.

 

When 'conciousness stirs', like waking up in the morning from sleep

yes there is awarenss, but duality is only when one is not realized.

If one dwells in the manifestation of the carnal or physical world

then there is duality.

However, for one who's sleep is even kept in the Lords arms is not in

duality, while in sleep, is in God, b/c God is taking care of the

little manifested 'absolutes'.

 

This is the neophyte stage of awareness, but one must start somehere.

 

 

> >

> > Q: Why does consciousness stir? What is the cause?

> >

> > M: With any cause, spontaneously, it happens; there is no

reason. That

> > consciousness is universal - there is no individuality. But when

the consciousness

> > stirs in a particular form which has also arisen spontaneously,

and start

> > functioning in that form, that form assumes that it is an

individual and what

> > is unlimited limits itself to a particular form and the trouble

starts.

 

___________ok maharaja, this is like i said above, misidentyfying

with improper understanding carnal body and it's shortcomings,

instead of the true nature of self, _______ok.

 

 

> > Let us say that someone has become a jnani, but what was it to

begin with?

> > It was that sour, bitter, principle, that secretion because of

which the

> > consciousness has taken place. That very principle, the

knowledge " I " Am, " has

> > developed, grown, and become sweet; it matures and becomes the

manifest jnani

> > state; but what is that; It is the product of the five elemental

food essence.

> > When that goes, what remains?

> > The Absolute which does not know itself.

 

_______This gets a little abstract or strange. Are these words from

maharaja? If so, they might be common to the ear of disciples,if

there are such here, but not clear in presentation.

It appears to cover the topic of the carnal physical body and it's

temporary period which the soul occupies.

A jnani as mentioned here is just one stage in the developmental

process of the perfection of the Self. Jnani is not the goal, but can

be very intoxicationg, i have met many who try to explain away God.

And most are nihilists, somewhat sounding like maharaja here. It's

another trap for being subtly toxic with mental masterbation,

thinking ____'I know the Absolute', and He is not this, not that.

 

Beware of God that is not and Has not, for it is clearly the

foundation for 'spiritual suicide. " Certainly some extremists who

have this view can even blow themselves up, being convinced that

there body is nothing but a walking bomb, and useful for God in that

sense. _____________this is risky business.

 

Now eastern guru's or swami's are bringing all kinds of variations of

existential nihiism, and impressing upon a very somber generation of

people who are raised in socialistic frameworks. This too is clearly

defined by the Holy Prophets, as the 'not God', or imaginary God

conspirators who are adept at conjuring up theories, and using word

gymnastics, for personal adoration or gain.

 

 

summary answer

 

 

The word 'absolute' dimishes the character of God and does not

address Him, nor dress Him, but undresses. Hence it is used by

nihilists frequently, in their deliberation and conclusion of being

absorbed into the 'absolute' or 'one without qualities'.

 

That is why the prophetic 'Word of God' will lay to rest once and

for all, all these foolish attempts by men to put forth less than

productive ideas of God. God is love, Supreme Soul, and the source of

the family of 'little souls' that can share in the intimacy of that

love through service, and be rid of duality of identifying with the

manifested as opposed to the Supreme Manifest.

 

 

 

 

> >

> >

> > Groovy stuff.

> > I've been noticing lately, lots of folks who seem to want to self

destruct

> > as a human perceptive mechanism, not just here but elsewhere.

Possibly, this is

> > what Whitehorse is galloping on about.

> >

> > It can be noticed that what we truly are, pure, subjective

awareness, has no

> > means of perceiving itself. This is the functioning of

consciousness; to

> > obtain the ability to be conscious of the Self. Therefore, the

goal is not to

> > cease consciousness, or to cease to exist as a human mechanism.

> >

> > The enlightened will talk about being oneness and the totality

of

> > consciousness, and will declare the human as a mechanism of

nature, and there is no

> > real involvement with this mechanism. This is all true, but the

only way that

> > it's known that one is that, is through the perceptive mechanism

of

> > consciousness that it is known does not exist. This is what

allows for the experience of

> > Self. Without that experience, there is nothing going on at all.

When there

> > is no longer any mechanism to create experience, there is no

more experience.

 

_______again here sounding like the trap of nothingness.

 

 

 

 

> > That apparently individual experiential perspective dissolves

back into

> > consciousness from which it arose. One is then consciousness

experiencing itself

> > through all the other vehicles of perception, originating within

the Self.

> >

> > Annihilation of the individual self will occur soon enough, and

repeatedly.

 

 

_______Your words are counterproductive when they overlap here phil.

perhaps you understand your self, but it is confusing for the reader.

 

 

 

 

 

 

> > What we're looking for is the experience of Self while ego

remains as a part

> > of consciousness. Fortunately, the ego isn't going to

disappear. 'You' are the

> > one 'moving'. Ego remains.

 

> >Phil

 

________Again this is rather ambigious, considering what has been

said above by maharaj.

 

cheers

 

all glories to Our perfect Father and his loving kindness.

 

your eternal friend and confidant, in Him.

 

 

the whitehorse rider

 

 

 

> >

> >