Guest guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the new > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for example > this talk: > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process cannot > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around that. But > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > nothing of order. ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in logic. The intellect is the function that organizes thought, therefore it is the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has being stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit-mind. >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > only exist in relation to ignorance. This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a contrived form of 'order' _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from which the portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored information. " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " _____not all accurate, some information comes in as ignorance, some as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming in due to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed to ignorance. However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and also has a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. >So real order cannot come about > through any intellectual attempt. _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. perhaps he meant 'information'. >Only through direct observation of > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That kind of > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. >al. _________This is a very confusing thought here. It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference to the collapse of the intellect between action and perception. Which implies what ? Action and perception are non different. or is it that you must not think through things, better to just act. or, is the act everything and the thought intellect nothing. Point here is very confusing. However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive and requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to actually understand what the speaker is really implying. And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing not trying to figure Him out. Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending process. The first is through analysis by your subjective mind the other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie from God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested God within. When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation of God, and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, son and Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former 'Holy Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh as sent sons. i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible Text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2005 Report Share Posted December 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the > new > > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for > example > > this talk: > > > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? > page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process cannot > > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around that. But > > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > > nothing of order. > > ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in logic. > The intellect is the function that organizes thought, therefore it is > the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has being > stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit-mind. Simply look at how the intellect operates. It operates through effort which is the result of conflict. When we operate through the intellect, we cannot see the higher state because the intellect is then our highest state of functioning. > > > >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > > only exist in relation to ignorance. > > This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a > contrived form of 'order' > > _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from which the > portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as > received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored information. > > " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " > > _____not all accurate, some information comes in as ignorance, some > as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming in due > to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed to > ignorance. > However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and also has > a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. All goodness seen from the perspective of the intellect is goodness as opposed to badness. The intellect cannot see nondual goodness. > > >So real order cannot come about > > through any intellectual attempt. > > _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. perhaps he > meant 'information'. Order here means total order, conflicless order. For knowledge to be total then the intellect has to know everything, but it does not know everything. It only holds a fragmented view of reality which exists in relation to what " it does no know " , i.e. ignorance. > > > >Only through direct observation of > > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That kind of > > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > >al. > > > _________This is a very confusing thought here. > It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not > intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. Nondual truth cannot be seen by the intellect. > > Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference to the > collapse of the intellect between action and perception. > > Which implies what ? > Action and perception are non different. or is it that you must not > think through things, better to just act. or, is the act everything > and the thought intellect nothing. > > Point here is very confusing. If you need to think about how to act, then this itself is the interval between observation and action. In direct perception, there is no interval between perception and action. > > > > However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive and > requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to > actually understand what the speaker is really implying. We need less explanation. We need a short explanation, like " no mind " . Otherwise the intellect will still be caught in the same treadmill. > > And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual > analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing not > trying to figure Him out. > Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending > process. The first is through analysis by your subjective mind the > other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie from > God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested God > within. > > When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation of God, > and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme > manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, son and > Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. > > And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former 'Holy > Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh as sent > sons. > > i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible Text. > God cannot be reached by the intellect, if we by 'God' mean nondual truth. To become 'One' with God, the intellect needs to be collapsed. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the new > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for example > this talk: > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process cannot > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around that. But > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > nothing of order. It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > only exist in relation to ignorance. So real order cannot come about > through any intellectual attempt. Only through direct observation of > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That kind of > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > al. thank you for this words of (about) peace.... Regards and peace Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Friday, December 02, 2005 1:12 AM > Re: Intellectual Meltdown > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the > > new > > > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > > > > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > > > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for > > example > > > this talk: > > > > > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? > > page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > > > > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process cannot > > > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around that. But > > > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > > > > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > > > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > > > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > > > > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > > > nothing of order. > > > > ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in logic. > > The intellect is the function that organizes thought, therefore it is > > the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has being > > stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit-mind. > > > Simply look at how the intellect operates. It operates through effort > which is the result of conflict. When we operate through the > intellect, we cannot see the higher state because the intellect is > then our highest state of functioning. > > > > > > > > >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > > > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > > > only exist in relation to ignorance. > > > > This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a > > contrived form of 'order' > > > > _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from which the > > portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as > > received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored information. > > > > " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " > > > > _____not all accurate, some information comes in as ignorance, some > > as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming in due > > to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed to > > ignorance. > > However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and also has > > a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. > > > All goodness seen from the perspective of the intellect is goodness as > opposed to badness. The intellect cannot see nondual goodness. > > > > > > >So real order cannot come about > > > through any intellectual attempt. > > > > _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. perhaps he > > meant 'information'. > > > Order here means total order, conflicless order. For knowledge to be > total then the intellect has to know everything, but it does not know > everything. It only holds a fragmented view of reality which exists in > relation to what " it does no know " , i.e. ignorance. > > > > > > > >Only through direct observation of > > > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That kind of > > > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > > > >al. > > > > > > _________This is a very confusing thought here. > > It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not > > intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. > > > Nondual truth cannot be seen by the intellect. > > > > > Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference to the > > collapse of the intellect between action and perception. > > > > Which implies what ? > > Action and perception are non different. or is it that you must not > > think through things, better to just act. or, is the act everything > > and the thought intellect nothing. > > > > Point here is very confusing. > > > If you need to think about how to act, then this itself is the > interval between observation and action. In direct perception, there > is no interval between perception and action. > > > > > > > > > > However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive and > > requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to > > actually understand what the speaker is really implying. > > > We need less explanation. We need a short explanation, like " no mind " . > Otherwise the intellect will still be caught in the same treadmill. > > > > > > And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual > > analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing not > > trying to figure Him out. > > Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending > > process. The first is through analysis by your subjective mind the > > other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie from > > God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested God > > within. > > > > When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation of God, > > and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme > > manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, son and > > Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. > > > > And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former 'Holy > > Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh as sent > > sons. > > > > i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible Text. > > > > > God cannot be reached by the intellect, if we by 'God' mean nondual > truth. To become 'One' with God, the intellect needs to be collapsed. > > al. > > Good morning Beloved Al., > > It is so nice to 'see' you again. How are you? > > When I saw your question, I thought and thought how to answer. > > I then realized thru Krishnamurti was the first cconscious 'thought' thru which I acknowledged and understood > how 'thought' separates into compartmentalized thinking. Only thru processing thought internally, wholly, and > holistically can one achieve union, yoga with God. God and thoughts of God are exactly the same. > > It is as if one is caught in a blizzard in the darkest, coldest Winter, one freezes and all the organs are in > suspended animation. We are alive yet we do not 'know it' because we do not function as humans can, for we can > do 'nothing'. We are stuck, we are rudderless, we are lost, we are hopelessly absolutely incapable of seeing, and > feeling, yet we know intellectually we are alive. We are conscious. We are aware of being conscious. > > After a while, Spring breaks thru, we thaw and now we know what happened to us, how it happened-- > how we were unaware and we are grateful for both Winter freeze and Spring thaw which can be seen as the > collapse of the intellect. Spring has arrived in the blossoming of the Soul in the Union with God, a small bud, > a heart that is full of gratitude, which is the essence of non-dual truth. Who knows this knows God, truth, > and the non-duality of non-other=than-one's own life. We now know Love. > > Imo. > > Love, > Ana > Good Morning Ana Inspiring words. Indeed, the frosty glass in body and mind must thaw. I can sense that. This is how I feel today. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, December 02, 2005 1:12 AM > > Re: Intellectual Meltdown > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the > > > new > > > > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > > > > > > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > > > > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for > > > example > > > > this talk: > > > > > > > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? > > > page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > > > > > > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process > cannot > > > > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around > that. But > > > > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > > > > > > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > > > > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > > > > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > > > > > > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > > > > nothing of order. > > > > > > ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in logic. > > > The intellect is the function that organizes thought, therefore > it is > > > the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has being > > > stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit- mind. > > > > > > Simply look at how the intellect operates. It operates through effort > > which is the result of conflict. When we operate through the > > intellect, we cannot see the higher state because the intellect is > > then our highest state of functioning. ________________This again is only applicable to one who is in conflict. One who is free from sin and lives in God has no conflict. you say when " we " , speak about yourself is fine but to one who libersted he has surrendered his intellect, or collapsed it , i've said this many times, you cannot hear me b/c you are in mental conflict exactly living in the duality of your mind trying to realize an impossible dream of becoming God. _______LOLOLOLOL. You have listened to too much chatter from nihilist, mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > > > > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > > > > only exist in relation to ignorance. > > > > > > This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a > > > contrived form of 'order' > > > > > > _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from which the > > > portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as > > > received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored information. > > > > > > " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " > > > > > > _____not all accurate, some information comes in as ignorance, some > > > as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming in > due > > > to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed to > > > ignorance. > > > However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and also > has > > > a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. > > > > > > All goodness seen from the perspective of the intellect is goodness as > > opposed to badness. The intellect cannot see nondual goodness. _______JUST SEE, the words you chosen goodness, and badness. This is true when goodness and badness is all in the duality of this life. But you have missed the point of PURE GOODNESS, ____OR you refuse to accept it exists ?________________Is this your problem? > > > > > > > > > > >So real order cannot come about > > > > through any intellectual attempt. > > > > > > _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. > perhaps he > > > meant 'information'. > > > > > > Order here means total order, conflicless order. For knowledge to be > > total then the intellect has to know everything, but it does not know > > everything. > >It only holds a fragmented view of reality which exists in > > relation to what " it does no know " , i.e. ignorance. AL, you have been subjected to an inferior explanation of veda literature, this course of philosophy comes from the Mayavadi discipline. It's not new but it's about 2500 years old. Intelligence doesn't hold anything it's a function like the serving spoon which is used to pick from different foods to fill the plate. Your intelligence is working in the waking state, resting in the sleeping state, but food is still in the pots, called your mind. When you go to sleep at night you haven't forgotten the day before really. The information is still there in storage. That is not your intellect. When you constantly read certain philosophy and accept it's word and conditions then it is in the mind over and over and over. hence when retrieval tome comes, you automatically callon the intelligence to sort and bring up what's stored. So you have all these expressions stored as i do the personal philosophy of love in action with God. You have a 'just know God as all theory, and live, it's all one and you are one. > > > > > > > > > >Only through direct observation of > > > > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That > kind of > > > > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > > > > > >al. > > > > > > > > > _________This is a very confusing thought here. > > > It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not > > > intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. > > > > > > Nondual truth cannot be seen by the intellect. Nondual truth cannot be understood by the intellect. Everything is perceived through intellect, but intellect is not the opitimum goal nor what is taught by HOLY SAINTS, Prophets GOD. Therefore when you collapse the intellect you don't become God either. For you are still left with ACTION _________GET IT!!!!!!!!!!. YOU STILL MUST ACT. now when you REALIZE that all your actions are meant to serve adn please GOD._________________then you might receive LOVE back from HIM___________________GET IT!!!!!!!!! OK _______RESPOND ON THIS POINT PLEASE, YOU OR ANA. > > > > > > > > Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference to > the > > > collapse of the intellect between action and perception. > > > > > > Which implies what ? > > > Action and perception are non different. or is it that you must not > > > think through things, better to just act. or, is the act everything > > > and the thought intellect nothing. > > > > > > Point here is very confusing. > > > > > > If you need to think about how to act, then this itself is the > > interval between observation and action. In direct perception, there > > is no interval between perception and action. ok, you might be getting somewhere where i can get through. If " DIRECT PERCEPTION' is strainght to God, then yes. NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THIS " DIRECT PERCEPTION " . _____YOU ARE GOD? _______________-ABNSWER PLEASE________ > > > > > > > > > However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive and > > > requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to > > > actually understand what the speaker is really implying. > > > > > > We need less explanation. We need a short explanation, like " no mind " . > > Otherwise the intellect will still be caught in the same treadmill. NO , wrong try not to escape explanation, b/c it is how you got here, and how you need to prove your worth. not just 'no mind', or just 'know God' or 'all i love'. then you might join that marc, french fellow, in the peace, love hippie chant man, everything is one man, far out , cool baby were one man where's that yellow sunshine man i need so more mesc, man, maybe some mda or that cool new ecstasy man love, god peace man. lol > > > > > > And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual > > > analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing not > > > trying to figure Him out. > > > Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending > > > process. The first is through analysis by your subjective mind the > > > other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie from > > > God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested God > > > within. > > > > > > When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation of > God, > > > and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme > > > manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, > son and > > > Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. > > > > > > And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former > 'Holy > > > Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh as sent > > > sons. > > > > > > i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible Text. > > > > > > > > > God cannot be reached by the intellect, if we by 'God' mean nondual > > truth. To become 'One' with God, the intellect needs to be collapsed. > >al ________ok , you repeat like parrot without giving substance but above i have giveing you room to bring in substance. whitehorserides again > > Good morning Beloved Al., > > > > It is so nice to 'see' you again. How are you? > > > > When I saw your question, I thought and thought how to answer. > > > > I then realized thru Krishnamurti was the first cconscious > 'thought' thru which I acknowledged and understood > > how 'thought' separates into compartmentalized thinking. Only > thru processing thought internally, wholly, and > > holistically can one achieve union, yoga with God. God and > thoughts of God are exactly the same. > > > > It is as if one is caught in a blizzard in the darkest, coldest > Winter, one freezes and all the organs are in > > suspended animation. We are alive yet we do not 'know it' because > we do not function as humans can, for we can > > do 'nothing'. We are stuck, we are rudderless, we are lost, we > are hopelessly absolutely incapable of seeing, and > > feeling, yet we know intellectually we are alive. We are > conscious. We are aware of being conscious. > > > > After a while, Spring breaks thru, we thaw and now we know what > happened to us, how it happened-- > > how we were unaware and we are grateful for both Winter freeze and > Spring thaw which can be seen as the > > collapse of the intellect. Spring has arrived in the blossoming > of the Soul in the Union with God, a small bud, > > a heart that is full of gratitude, which is the essence of > non-dual truth. Who knows this knows God, truth, > > and the non-duality of non-other=than-one's own life. We now know > Love. there you go again, " who knows this knows truth " where is your collapsing if you have to know. see how you are in the duality and you are blinded by it with only words,______empty words. God is not a know thing or snow thing He's a Personlity with a large family and friends who live with Him and is shared personality in love, Ana. > > > > Imo. > > > > Love, > > Ana > > > > Good Morning Ana > > Inspiring words. Indeed, the frosty glass in body and mind must thaw. > I can sense that. This is how I feel today. > > al. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > - > > > anders_lindman > > > Nisargadatta > > > Friday, December 02, 2005 1:12 AM > > > Re: Intellectual Meltdown > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards > for the > > > > new > > > > > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > > > > > > > > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval > between > > > > > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in > for > > > > example > > > > > this talk: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? > > > > page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > > > > > > > > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process > > cannot > > > > > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around > > that. But > > > > > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > > > > > > > > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > > > > > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that > pure > > > > > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > > > > > > > > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The > intellect knows > > > > > nothing of order. > > > > > > > > ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in > logic. > > > > The intellect is the function that organizes thought, > therefore > > it is > > > > the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has > being > > > > stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit- > mind. > > > > > > > > > Simply look at how the intellect operates. It operates through > effort > > > which is the result of conflict. When we operate through the > > > intellect, we cannot see the higher state because the intellect > is > > > then our highest state of functioning. > > > ________________This again is only applicable to one who is in > conflict. One who is free from sin and lives in God has no conflict. > > you say when " we " , speak about yourself is fine but to one who > libersted he has surrendered his intellect, or collapsed it , i've > said this many times, you cannot hear me b/c you are in mental > conflict exactly living in the duality of your mind trying to realize > an impossible dream of becoming God. _______LOLOLOLOL. > > You have listened to too much chatter from nihilist, mayavadi > philosophy. When you look at yourself, it is clear that the separation between you and the rest of existence is only like the separation between the beginning and the end of a circle. Thus, the difference between the " we " and the " I " is only arbitrary. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > > > > > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because > it can > > > > > only exist in relation to ignorance. > > > > > > > > This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a > > > > contrived form of 'order' > > > > > > > > _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from > which the > > > > portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as > > > > received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored > information. > > > > > > > > " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " > > > > > > > > _____not all accurate, some information comes in as > ignorance, some > > > > as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming > in > > due > > > > to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed > to > > > > ignorance. > > > > However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and > also > > has > > > > a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. > > > > > > > > > All goodness seen from the perspective of the intellect is > goodness as > > > opposed to badness. The intellect cannot see nondual goodness. > > > _______JUST SEE, the words you chosen goodness, and badness. This is > true when goodness and badness is all in the duality of this life. > > But you have missed the point of PURE GOODNESS, ____OR you refuse to > accept it exists ?________________Is this your problem? The intellect cannot see pure goodness precisely because it is a dual process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >So real order cannot come about > > > > > through any intellectual attempt. > > > > > > > > _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. > > perhaps he > > > > meant 'information'. > > > > > > > > > Order here means total order, conflicless order. For knowledge > to be > > > total then the intellect has to know everything, but it does > not know > > > everything. > > >It only holds a fragmented view of reality which exists in > > > relation to what " it does no know " , i.e. ignorance. > > > AL, you have been subjected to an inferior explanation of veda > literature, this course of philosophy comes from the Mayavadi > discipline. It's not new but it's about 2500 years old. > > Intelligence doesn't hold anything it's a function like the serving > spoon which is used to pick from different foods to fill the plate. > Your intelligence is working in the waking state, resting in the > sleeping state, but food is still in the pots, called your mind. > When you go to sleep at night you haven't forgotten the day before > really. The information is still there in storage. That is not your > intellect. > > When you constantly read certain philosophy and accept it's word and > conditions then it is in the mind over and over and over. hence when > retrieval tome comes, you automatically callon the intelligence to > sort and bring up what's stored. > So you have all these expressions stored as i do the personal > philosophy of love in action with God. You have a 'just know God as > all theory, and live, it's all one and you are one. As a factual experience, yes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Only through direct observation of > > > > > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That > > kind of > > > > > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > > > > > > > >al. > > > > > > > > > > > > _________This is a very confusing thought here. > > > > It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not > > > > intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. > > > > > > > > > Nondual truth cannot be seen by the intellect. > > > Nondual truth cannot be understood by the intellect. Everything is > perceived through intellect, but intellect is not the opitimum goal > nor what is taught by HOLY SAINTS, Prophets GOD. Therefore when you > collapse the intellect you don't become God either. For you are still > left with ACTION _________GET IT!!!!!!!!!!. But that action must be total in order to be conflictless. > > YOU STILL MUST ACT. now when you REALIZE that all your actions are > meant to serve adn please GOD._________________then you might receive > LOVE back from HIM___________________GET IT!!!!!!!!! > > OK _______RESPOND ON THIS POINT PLEASE, YOU OR ANA. Being one with God is not the same thing as pleasing God. Who can you please but yourSelf? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference > to > > the > > > > collapse of the intellect between action and perception. > > > > > > > > Which implies what ? > > > > Action and perception are non different. or is it that you > must not > > > > think through things, better to just act. or, is the act > everything > > > > and the thought intellect nothing. > > > > > > > > Point here is very confusing. > > > > > > > > > If you need to think about how to act, then this itself is the > > > interval between observation and action. In direct perception, > there > > > is no interval between perception and action. > > > ok, you might be getting somewhere where i can get through. If " > DIRECT PERCEPTION' is strainght to God, then yes. > > NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THIS " DIRECT PERCEPTION " . _____YOU ARE GOD? > > _______________-ABNSWER PLEASE________ I and you are facets of God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive > and > > > > requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to > > > > actually understand what the speaker is really implying. > > > > > > > > > We need less explanation. We need a short explanation, like " no > mind " . > > > Otherwise the intellect will still be caught in the same > treadmill. > > > NO , wrong try not to escape explanation, b/c it is how you got here, > and how you need to prove your worth. > not just 'no mind', or just 'know God' or 'all i love'. > > then you might join that marc, french fellow, in the peace, love > hippie chant man, everything is one man, far out , cool baby were one > man where's that yellow sunshine man i need so more mesc, man, maybe > some mda or that cool new ecstasy man love, god peace man. lol No. Just " no mind " . Don't continue running around in the treadmill. > > > > > > > > And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual > > > > analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing > not > > > > trying to figure Him out. > > > > Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending > > > > process. The first is through analysis by your subjective > mind the > > > > other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie > from > > > > God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested > God > > > > within. > > > > > > > > When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation > of > > God, > > > > and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme > > > > manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, > > son and > > > > Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. > > > > > > > > And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former > > 'Holy > > > > Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh > as sent > > > > sons. > > > > > > > > i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible > Text. > > > > > > > > > > > > > God cannot be reached by the intellect, if we by 'God' mean > nondual > > > truth. To become 'One' with God, the intellect needs to be > collapsed. > > > >al > > > ________ok , you repeat like parrot without giving substance but > above i have giveing you room to bring in substance. > > whitehorserides again Who, before " me " has talked about collapsing the intellect? al. > > > > > Good morning Beloved Al., > > > > > > It is so nice to 'see' you again. How are you? > > > > > > When I saw your question, I thought and thought how to answer. > > > > > > I then realized thru Krishnamurti was the first cconscious > > 'thought' thru which I acknowledged and understood > > > how 'thought' separates into compartmentalized thinking. Only > > thru processing thought internally, wholly, and > > > holistically can one achieve union, yoga with God. God and > > thoughts of God are exactly the same. > > > > > > It is as if one is caught in a blizzard in the darkest, coldest > > Winter, one freezes and all the organs are in > > > suspended animation. We are alive yet we do not 'know it' > because > > we do not function as humans can, for we can > > > do 'nothing'. We are stuck, we are rudderless, we are lost, we > > are hopelessly absolutely incapable of seeing, and > > > feeling, yet we know intellectually we are alive. We are > > conscious. We are aware of being conscious. > > > > > > After a while, Spring breaks thru, we thaw and now we know what > > happened to us, how it happened-- > > > how we were unaware and we are grateful for both Winter freeze > and > > Spring thaw which can be seen as the > > > collapse of the intellect. Spring has arrived in the blossoming > > of the Soul in the Union with God, a small bud, > > > a heart that is full of gratitude, which is the essence of > > non-dual truth. Who knows this knows God, truth, > > > and the non-duality of non-other=than-one's own life. We now > know > > Love. > > > there you go again, " who knows this knows truth " where is your > collapsing if you have to know. see how you are in the duality and > you are blinded by it with only words,______empty words. > > God is not a know thing or snow thing He's a Personlity with a large > family and friends who live with Him and is shared personality in > love, Ana. > > > > > > > Imo. > > > > > > Love, > > > Ana > > > > > > > Good Morning Ana > > > > Inspiring words. Indeed, the frosty glass in body and mind must > thaw. > > I can sense that. This is how I feel today. > > > > al. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2005 Report Share Posted December 2, 2005 - whitehorserides Nisargadatta Friday, December 02, 2005 6:01 AM Re: Intellectual Meltdown Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > > > - > > anders_lindman > > Nisargadatta > > Friday, December 02, 2005 1:12 AM > > Re: Intellectual Meltdown > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > The intellect needs to be collapsed like a house of cards for the > > > new > > > > state of consciousness to arise in you. > > > > > > > > This collapse is " simply " the removal of the interval between > > > > perception and action, as explained by J. Krishnamurti in for > > > example > > > > this talk: > > > > > > > > http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/index.php? > > > page=x & type=text & cid=790719 & nav=td & nid=790719 > > > > > > > > " No mind " is a good description because the thinking process > cannot > > > > form an intellectual concept or a dogmatic religion around > that. But > > > > what it is all about can also be described as " clear mind " . > > > > > > > > One way to reach no mind is to see that ordinary thinking is > > > > poisonous; it is always steeped in conflict. Through that pure > > > > observation the new state of consciousness can be reached. > > > > > > > > For the mind to be clear, there must be order. The intellect knows > > > > nothing of order. > > > > > > ______wait a second here. Unfortuantely there is no basis in logic. > > > The intellect is the function that organizes thought, therefore > it is > > > the organizer, correlator of all subjective thought that has being > > > stored in the memory or mind. There are two parts to spirit- mind. > > > > > > Simply look at how the intellect operates. It operates through effort > > which is the result of conflict. When we operate through the > > intellect, we cannot see the higher state because the intellect is > > then our highest state of functioning. ________________This again is only applicable to one who is in conflict. One who is free from sin and lives in God has no conflict. you say when " we " , speak about yourself is fine but to one who libersted he has surrendered his intellect, or collapsed it , i've said this many times, you cannot hear me b/c you are in mental conflict exactly living in the duality of your mind trying to realize an impossible dream of becoming God. _______LOLOLOLOL. You have listened to too much chatter from nihilist, mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It knows only about order in the form of knowledge > > > > and all knowledge is only a contrived form of order because it can > > > > only exist in relation to ignorance. > > > > > > This does not make sense. hear carefully 'all knowledge is a > > > contrived form of 'order' > > > > > > _______no all knowledge is an assembly of thoughts, from which the > > > portals the senses touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing as > > > received into a memory bank called the mind. ie stored information. > > > > > > " because it can only exist according to ignorance. " > > > > > > _____not all accurate, some information comes in as ignorance, some > > > as passion, some as goodness. But since these are all coming in > due > > > to one in material carnal conscience it could be attributed to > > > ignorance. > > > However, there is knowlesge which is 'perfect and pure' and also > has > > > a place in the mind, and will be let in as thought. > > > > > > All goodness seen from the perspective of the intellect is goodness as > > opposed to badness. The intellect cannot see nondual goodness. _______JUST SEE, the words you chosen goodness, and badness. This is true when goodness and badness is all in the duality of this life. But you have missed the point of PURE GOODNESS, ____OR you refuse to accept it exists ?________________Is this your problem? > > > > > > > > > > >So real order cannot come about > > > > through any intellectual attempt. > > > > > > _____Again 'order' is an inapproriate word here, to apply. > perhaps he > > > meant 'information'. > > > > > > Order here means total order, conflicless order. For knowledge to be > > total then the intellect has to know everything, but it does not know > > everything. > >It only holds a fragmented view of reality which exists in > > relation to what " it does no know " , i.e. ignorance. AL, you have been subjected to an inferior explanation of veda literature, this course of philosophy comes from the Mayavadi discipline. It's not new but it's about 2500 years old. Intelligence doesn't hold anything it's a function like the serving spoon which is used to pick from different foods to fill the plate. Your intelligence is working in the waking state, resting in the sleeping state, but food is still in the pots, called your mind. When you go to sleep at night you haven't forgotten the day before really. The information is still there in storage. That is not your intellect. When you constantly read certain philosophy and accept it's word and conditions then it is in the mind over and over and over. hence when retrieval tome comes, you automatically callon the intelligence to sort and bring up what's stored. So you have all these expressions stored as i do the personal philosophy of love in action with God. You have a 'just know God as all theory, and live, it's all one and you are one. > > > > > > > > > >Only through direct observation of > > > > the disorder in the thinking process can order appear. That > kind of > > > > observation creates a collapse of the intellect. > > > > > > >al. > > > > > > > > > _________This is a very confusing thought here. > > > It appears he's trying to say intellectual analysis is not > > > intellectual at all and has no basis in the real Truth. > > > > > > Nondual truth cannot be seen by the intellect. Nondual truth cannot be understood by the intellect. Everything is perceived through intellect, but intellect is not the opitimum goal nor what is taught by HOLY SAINTS, Prophets GOD. Therefore when you collapse the intellect you don't become God either. For you are still left with ACTION _________GET IT!!!!!!!!!!. YOU STILL MUST ACT. now when you REALIZE that all your actions are meant to serve adn please GOD._________________then you might receive LOVE back from HIM___________________GET IT!!!!!!!!! OK _______RESPOND ON THIS POINT PLEASE, YOU OR ANA. > > > > > > > > Now it appears by the brief given above there is a reference to > the > > > collapse of the intellect between action and perception. > > > > > > Which implies what ? > > > Action and perception are non different. or is it that you must not > > > think through things, better to just act. or, is the act everything > > > and the thought intellect nothing. > > > > > > Point here is very confusing. > > > > > > If you need to think about how to act, then this itself is the > > interval between observation and action. In direct perception, there > > is no interval between perception and action. ok, you might be getting somewhere where i can get through. If " DIRECT PERCEPTION' is strainght to God, then yes. NOW TELL ME WHAT IS THIS " DIRECT PERCEPTION " . _____YOU ARE GOD? _______________-ABNSWER PLEASE________ > > > > > > > > > However, my observation of this short brief is inconclusive and > > > requires a better presentation, more information, clarity, to > > > actually understand what the speaker is really implying. > > > > > > We need less explanation. We need a short explanation, like " no mind " . > > Otherwise the intellect will still be caught in the same treadmill. NO , wrong try not to escape explanation, b/c it is how you got here, and how you need to prove your worth. not just 'no mind', or just 'know God' or 'all i love'. then you might join that marc, french fellow, in the peace, love hippie chant man, everything is one man, far out , cool baby were one man where's that yellow sunshine man i need so more mesc, man, maybe some mda or that cool new ecstasy man love, god peace man. lol > > > > > > And finally God is not to be understood through intellectual > > > analysis. God is authority, and is understood through hearing not > > > trying to figure Him out. > > > Two ways of acquiring knowledge, the ascending or descending > > > process. The first is through analysis by your subjective mind the > > > other is through acceptance or being a recipient of Truth, ie from > > > God or the Holy Spirit the external and personal manifested God > > > within. > > > > > > When you have the 'living son' as the external manifestation of > God, > > > and the Holy Spirit, as the internal, and God the Supreme > > > manifestation all in agreement!____ then you have the Father, > son and > > > Holy Spirit with you, simultaneously b/c the are inseperable. > > > > > > And the 'Holy Spirit' is verified by the 'words' of the former > 'Holy > > > Prophets' who manifest the 'personaity of God' in the flesh as sent > > > sons. > > > > > > i can't make it any clearer, that is confirmed in the Bible Text. > > > > > > > > > God cannot be reached by the intellect, if we by 'God' mean nondual > > truth. To become 'One' with God, the intellect needs to be collapsed. > >al ________ok , you repeat like parrot without giving substance but above i have giveing you room to bring in substance. whitehorserides again > > Good morning Beloved Al., > > > > It is so nice to 'see' you again. How are you? > > > > When I saw your question, I thought and thought how to answer. > > > > I then realized thru Krishnamurti was the first cconscious > 'thought' thru which I acknowledged and understood > > how 'thought' separates into compartmentalized thinking. Only > thru processing thought internally, wholly, and > > holistically can one achieve union, yoga with God. God and > thoughts of God are exactly the same. > > > > It is as if one is caught in a blizzard in the darkest, coldest > Winter, one freezes and all the organs are in > > suspended animation. We are alive yet we do not 'know it' because > we do not function as humans can, for we can > > do 'nothing'. We are stuck, we are rudderless, we are lost, we > are hopelessly absolutely incapable of seeing, and > > feeling, yet we know intellectually we are alive. We are > conscious. We are aware of being conscious. > > > > After a while, Spring breaks thru, we thaw and now we know what > happened to us, how it happened-- > > how we were unaware and we are grateful for both Winter freeze and > Spring thaw which can be seen as the > > collapse of the intellect. Spring has arrived in the blossoming > of the Soul in the Union with God, a small bud, > > a heart that is full of gratitude, which is the essence of > non-dual truth. Who knows this knows God, truth, > > and the non-duality of non-other=than-one's own life. We now know > Love. there you go again, " who knows this knows truth " where is your collapsing if you have to know. see how you are in the duality and you are blinded by it with only words,______empty words. God is not a know thing or snow thing He's a Personlity with a large family and friends who live with Him and is shared personality in love, Ana. My Darling Whitehorse, Please do not extrapolate meanings from my words as I answered Al's question. I shall endeavor to answer yours: Godhead is the Father Son and Holy Spirit according to biblical writings you often speak of. God the Father is the Unknown/Unknownable God, the Unborn Buddha-mind God the Son is the Known God, the pesonalities we see 'Jesus', Whitehorse, Ana, Al God the Spirit is the Oneness we share in the return of the individual personality/death to the Godhead Have I answered you, My Lovely Whitehorse sufficiently? Ana. > > > > Imo. > > > > Love, > > Ana > > > > Good Morning Ana > > Inspiring words. Indeed, the frosty glass in body and mind must thaw. > I can sense that. This is how I feel today. > > al. > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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