Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta M: I deal with only > two things: What is your identity, > and what is your conviction > about what you are? These > questions cannot be discussed > with everyone. I can speak of > them only with those of you who > are in earnest. There are those who have a lot of wisdom but have not solved the riddle of " I Amness " . There is no riddle except the one you purport. 'I Amness' and so? > > Q: Scientists have discovered, in the last ten years, > that if they don't observe the reaction of the atomic particles, > the reactions remain as they are. > > If they do observe those > reactions, there is a change. > The very act of observing causes > a change in that which is observed. > > M: The observer is also changing. What is being observed brings > about a change in the observer, > and unless that change is > brought about in the observer, > the observer cannot observe the > object; therefore, one can never > get to the depth of spirituality. This suggests that the observer is intellectualizing and processsing according to his own subjective experiences. what does observation have to do with the purity of the heart? If one lives in God's Will then his observation is of God. One who eyes is filled with the eyesalve of love is in God and God is in Him. > > When you are cognizing something > as an individual, where do you place yourself? Consciousness is that which is cognizing, the cognition, and that which is being > cognized. You are only scratching > the surface. It can't do you any good at all. well i guess he's trying to same the same using consciousness as the function of intelligence . ok now what What you hear must enter you like an arrow and hit something deep within you. There must be an internal reaction; without the reaction what you hear won't do you any good. You should know it when the arrow reaches its mark. this is interesting and somehow follows the suggestion i made what is the relativity if the heart is pure. What is being proposed hear is the reaching into the soul, where the seat of love is, but he Nisa, is not being clear enough with his choice of words hence it appears criptic to me, but to others the mystery may intrigue them. It's time to get over the mystery and understand the Truth without verbal gymanastics of " " " " i Amnesss " " " sugesting the all one is one and all ones once ones realized is all the same one. i'm afraid my friends that i could probably do a better job at teaching the mysticism of this obscure and unattainable 'onesness' better than most of these gurudo's. It's simply a matter of realizing what level of spiritual intellectualizing they're at, and adding or subtracting as needs be. 'This' Nisa teachings is only at a neophytes level, but still may impress many linsteners. whitehorserides again got more, bring it on. > > > Jean Dunn January 31, 1981 > > ..... > Era > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 What the hell is " purity of the heart " , a New Age slogan, a Christian morality, a Sufi notion, or is simply nonsense ? Please explain (but not with more than three sentences). Werner Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Era " <n0ndual@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta M: I deal with only > > two things: What is your identity, > > and what is your conviction > > about what you are? These > > questions cannot be discussed > > with everyone. I can speak of > > them only with those of you who > > are in earnest. There are those who have a lot of wisdom but have > not solved the riddle of " I Amness " . > > > There is no riddle except the one you purport. 'I Amness' and so? > > > > > Q: Scientists have discovered, in the last ten years, > > that if they don't observe the reaction of the atomic particles, > > the reactions remain as they are. > > > > If they do observe those > > reactions, there is a change. > > The very act of observing causes > > a change in that which is observed. > > > > M: The observer is also changing. What is being observed brings > > about a change in the observer, > > and unless that change is > > brought about in the observer, > > the observer cannot observe the > > object; therefore, one can never > > get to the depth of spirituality. > > This suggests that the observer is intellectualizing and processsing > according to his own subjective experiences. > > what does observation have to do with the purity of the heart? If one > lives in God's Will then his observation is of God. One who eyes is > filled with the eyesalve of love is in God and God is in Him. > > > > > When you are cognizing something > > as an individual, where do you place yourself? Consciousness is > that which is cognizing, the cognition, and that which is being > > cognized. You are only scratching > > the surface. It can't do you any good at all. > > well i guess he's trying to same the same using consciousness as the > function of intelligence . ok now what > > What you hear must enter you like an arrow and hit something deep > within you. There must be an internal reaction; without the reaction > what you hear won't do you any good. You should know it when the > arrow reaches its mark. > > this is interesting and somehow follows the suggestion i made what > is the relativity if the heart is pure. What is being proposed hear > is the reaching into the soul, where the seat of love is, but he > Nisa, is not being clear enough with his choice of words > > hence it appears criptic to me, but to others the mystery may > intrigue them. > > It's time to get over the mystery and understand the Truth without > verbal gymanastics of " " " " i Amnesss " " " sugesting the all one is one > and all ones once ones realized is all the same one. > > i'm afraid my friends that i could probably do a better job at > teaching the mysticism of this obscure and unattainable 'onesness' > better than most of these gurudo's. > > It's simply a matter of realizing what level of spiritual > intellectualizing they're at, and adding or subtracting as needs be. > > 'This' Nisa teachings is only at a neophytes level, but still may > impress many linsteners. > > whitehorserides again > got more, bring it on. > > > > > Jean Dunn January 31, 1981 > > > > ..... > > Era > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > What the hell is " purity of the heart " , a New Age slogan, a Christian > morality, a Sufi notion, or is simply nonsense ? Please explain (but > not with more than three sentences). > > Werner > good day, As the the soul is considered the resting place for love, so goes my expression of heart. It's not for nothing that yogi's practice breating techniques to control the self which is centered near the heart. Therefore when the heart is cleansed from all negative characteristics, such as hate, envy, depression, false imprisonment of loving what the mind dwells on in the carnal sense. Then what emanates is pure love in action, which are expressed through word and deed. That is translated into a sinless person, one who does not offend because he is not motivated for any personal gain. i know that may sound like impossible b/c you have been told everything is for the self, but that is not so, not for a purfied heart. God gives and gives and gives freely, He has no needs, but He gets His return when His own, little souls, co-operate. Hence the love comes back and He becomes obligated in that act of love and reciprocates out of pure love. Does God have a heart? He's all heart, He's all Soul and you little soul. but don't mistake little for. Big It's not all about you , it's all about God. Learn selflessness and what your heart become pure. Sorry about the 3 sentence thing but maybe it's good keeps me compacting God's Word. thanks werner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 > What the hell is " purity of the heart " , a New Age slogan, a Christian > morality, a Sufi notion, or is simply nonsense ? Please explain (but > not with more than three sentences). Kierkegaard said, " Purity of heart is to will one thing. " As for me, purity of heart is: a oneness that shines so deep that it illuminates everywhere. Note: you asked for an " explanation " . What I have given is not an explanation. Purity of heart is a mystical notion and not subject to " explanation " . If you are not mystically inclined then a mystical notion will be of no meaning to you. It can be compared to poetry, where if one is not inclined to respond to poetry then poetry will not speak to one; or compared to art, where if one is not senstitive to art then art will not be evocative. But then, non-dualism can't be " explained " either. Explanability is hardly a criterion of significance in regards to matters non-dual, in my view. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Hi whitehorseman, Purity of the heart: If you own that purity are you aware of it ? As you know, conscious virtue is vanity. When you have that pure heart then you cannot be aware of it and when you are aware of it then you are a vain hypocrite, right ? So I suppose you don*t have a pure heart but you are considering to get it, and in the meantime you already are writing promising, beautiful posts as if you already had it (which is called " eating a cake which is not yet cooked " ). Do you think you ever will get a pure heart ? When will that happen, in two days, or in three weeks, or five years ? Or will it happen when you are blessed with the holy ghost and God has forgiven you all sins and Jesus is in your heart ? Werner Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > What the hell is " purity of the heart " , a New Age slogan, a Christian > > morality, a Sufi notion, or is simply nonsense ? Please explain (but > > not with more than three sentences). > > > > Werner > > > good day, > > As the the soul is considered the resting place for love, so goes my > expression of heart. It's not for nothing that yogi's practice breating > techniques to control the self which is centered near the heart. > Therefore when the heart is cleansed from all negative characteristics, > such as hate, envy, depression, false imprisonment of loving what the > mind dwells on in the carnal sense. Then what emanates is pure love in > action, which are expressed through word and deed. That is translated > into a sinless person, one who does not offend because he is not > motivated for any personal gain. > i know that may sound like impossible b/c you have been told everything > is for the self, but that is not so, not for a purfied heart. > God gives and gives and gives freely, He has no needs, but He gets His > return when His own, little souls, co-operate. Hence the love comes > back and He becomes obligated in that act of love and reciprocates out > of pure love. Does God have a heart? > > He's all heart, He's all Soul and you little soul. > > but don't mistake little for. Big > > It's not all about you , it's all about God. > > Learn selflessness and what your heart become pure. > > Sorry about the 3 sentence thing but maybe it's good keeps me > compacting God's Word. > > thanks werner. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2005 Report Share Posted December 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > What the hell is " purity of the heart " , a New Age slogan, a > Christian > > morality, a Sufi notion, or is simply nonsense ? Please explain > (but > > not with more than three sentences). > > Kierkegaard said, " Purity of heart is to will one thing. " > > As for me, purity of heart is: a oneness that shines so > deep that it illuminates everywhere. This may sound like it should be bill. now hear this purity is shining everywhere, it's called God. Can you see that? ok , may be not so lets consider your point of it being 'soooooo deep it illuminates everything'. Well it has been seen or understod that some have come being 'pure' unblemished hearts, hearts purged from all sin desire, and therefore ' one with God' but many an most cannot see that light can they, so no matter how a bright a lit son may be. He only lights up those who are also of the same firmament. You must be connected to see the source and you must not be a fickle or bad connect to see the bright light at the source. Kierkegarde may have the right saying, kind of, to will one thing. but it's without substance. Before of after requires the finishing touches as to what that 'One Will' must be. again as i mentioned above alignment is key, good alignment is required for your car to go straight an operate smoothly. Notice there are two wheels to align. Does that disqualify my analogy? lol > > Note: you asked for an " explanation " . What I have given > is not an explanation. Purity of heart is a mystical > notion and not subject to " explanation " . If you are not > mystically inclined then a mystical notion will be of > no meaning to you. It can be compared to poetry, where > if one is not inclined to respond to poetry then poetry > will not speak to one; or compared to art, where if one > is not senstitive to art then art will not be > evocative. Well this throws the ambiguity of the oneness thing back into it, again. Yes, being pure is an experience and is internal through the feelings and intimacy of love. It's experinced through the spirit having it cleansed from all personal motives. so i disagree that you can't explain it. That would be like saying the manufacturer, God has left you without an example or manuel to explain how it all works, and that would be foolish. Dumb God eh? NO. However it is true from time to time the 'explanation' is lost and he sends a good son to straighten things out but that takes proving that son scientifically. God is Supreme science and can be known through application and promised result, again _____follow the manufacturers guide. > > But then, non-dualism can't be " explained " either. > > Explanability is hardly a criterion of significance > in regards to matters non-dual, in my view. In the ultimate sense, yes, but in the pragmatic sense God Has provided for those who are sincere to be reconnected. That is prophecy, and the fulfillment thereof. But non-dualism is just words, and i've confirmed elsewhere that the bottom line of nonduality lies in the singlemindedness of love, towards the perfect source in a cooperative relationship.. you are all struggling with my continuous expression of seperation yet oneness. i know. Two yet one. as the Holy Prphets were and explained. YOu have lost all understanding that those are the teachings of _______________________God. not hindhu god, not idol god, not 'imaginary''' God which includes this impersonal , mayavadi, nihilism, coming across here. whitehorserides keep your brush wet. lol > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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