Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami A Christian Devotee: How can I believe other human incarnations like Krishna, Buddha and Mohammed when my Bible says that only Jesus is God in Flesh? Swami: Bible says that Jesus is the God in flesh, but Gita says for a Hindu, That Krishna is the God in flesh, let us analyse both these views? I am not touching Buddhism and Islam in this topic because Islam believes That Mohammad is not God in flesh and He was only messenger of God. Buddhism keeps silent on the God and no question of God in flesh for them. If the Bible told that Krishna was not God in flesh or if Gita told that Jesus was not God in flesh, then both Bible and Gita are valid. When the scriptures does not mention like this in complete version How can you interpret your own scripture in the other way? More over all of you whether Christians or Hindus have to accept The concept of one God, there is no other alternative way in this. You say that your God created this entire world and Hindus say that Their God created this same entire world, unfortunately my dear friends! I do not find two worlds and I find only one world! Now tell me Whether this single entire world is created by Christian God or Hindu God? One of you or both should be wrong and in that case who is wrong? Either you should have two separate worlds or you should have single God. If both the scriptures are wrong and both Gods did not create this Universe Then the vote goes to Science, which says that the world exists by itself. They say that nobody created this world and it is self-existent. Since both are sacred scriptures, let us solve this problem by analysis. If you are rigid of your own scripture, I am not touching you at all. If one is rigid where is the place for logical analysis and judgement? In the court if one party says that what ever it says is the only truth What is the necessity of the court, advocates, arguments and judgement? If you leave rigidity and become flexible to accept the truth After analysis only, you are most welcome to my Universal Spirituality. Even in the small worldly matters, we apply open mind and analysis, I wonder why you are not applying the same open mind and analysis In such most important spiritual knowledge which decides everything. The word Jesus stands for Human Incarnation and similarly the word Krishna. In scriptures, we have to take the internal meanings and not simple external Meanings for the sacred words, each word is ocean of divine knowledge. Bible says that the lamb will come in red robe, here what is the meaning For the word lamb? Is it simple animal with four legs and one tail. Does this mean that Jesus will come again as animal? Here you say That the word lamb stands for the Lord who is pure and innocent Like the lamb, at one place you take the inner meaning and at other place You take the external meaning! Therefore, the word Jesus means God in flesh, Which means that the Lord comes in human form with blood and flesh. This is a great concept, which Jesus tried to establish to the devotees. Till then the Islam believed only in the formless God called Allah. Islam does not treat Mohammad as God in flesh even today. Jesus told that He and His father are one and the same, what does this mean? Here the word father does not mean Joseph, the husband of His mother Mary. If you take the meaning of the word of father in the external sense only It is impossible because two human beings cannot be one and the same. That Creator is indicated by the word father and human incarnation by the word Jesus Both are one and the same since God pervaded all over the human incarnation. If you take the meaning of the word Jesus as a particular human body only, Then the meaning of the word father should also mean another particular human body. In that case both the human bodies cannot be one and the same because We are seeing the father and the son represented by two separate human bodies. Similarly Jesus told that one could reach His father only through Him. This again should mean that nobody could see or meet Joseph without Jesus. But it is not so because several people have seen Joseph even before Jesus was born. You are taking the inner meaning for the word father and say that father means God. But for the word Jesus you are taking a particular human body only. This is not justified and even a child will contradict this different approach. When it is said that Jesus will baptise by fire, does it mean Jesus will sprinkle fire? In such case the baptized person will be burnt with fire, therefore, the word fire Means Knowledge as said in Gita “Jnanaagnih”, moreover if you stick the word Jesus to a particular human body only and if you say that Jesus exists even now, Please show Me Jesus as the same human body to My eyes also, in the past When Jesus was alive everyone could show Jesus as human body to anyone. Whether a believer or a non-believer saw Jesus as human body in the past. Now the situation is not the same, you say that you have seen Jesus. How to believe this unless you show Jesus to Me also just like in the past. The difference between the past and the present is that there was human body In the past called as Jesus and at present that human body does not exist. posted by: His servant at the lotus feet of shri datta swami www.universal-spirituality.org whitehorserides <green1911 wrote: posted by some Bindu dasa krishna----- follower. if you get bored since it's easy to do, just go to Whitehorse comments 3/4 way down PS ::: you know how many times these hare krisha's, run the other way when confronted by me who knows there crap inside out. and can challenge them with the teachings of the Holy Prophets. Main reason is the krishna's grand pupada's say Jesus is guru to. Guru but not guru like you. They catagorically lie. He never affirmed idolatry or eastern hindhu imaginery god worship that was prevelent in the area 2000 years ago.The teachings are not similar, not but for some very selectively picked lines from the Bible, stategically placed in their diatribe to sound as if he was teaching some kind of hinduism. Sorry, bring on the guru's. Personals Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. Lots of someones, actually. Personals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 Nisargadatta , prakki surya <dattapr2000> wrote: > > Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami > > A Christian Devotee: How can I believe other human incarnations like Krishna, Buddha and Mohammed when my Bible says that only Jesus is God in Flesh? This is not so, this christian nobody, does not eve have the right premise. First off Jesus was never God the Father, Creator or God in full manifestation in the flesh, this is stupid thinking. He was eve born in immaculate conception.That is another false premise put for by the catholic lying criminals, sorry. Jesus was born out of wedlock , but that did not dimish he's role as the sacrificial lamb to replace the animimal sacrifices for atonement as prophesied by the OT. so let's atleast get some records straight, even th jews will agree with this. He was a good son and prophet, and it was purposefully set up that the jews hang in. lol > > Swami: Bible says that Jesus is the God in flesh, but Gita says for a Hindu, > That Krishna is the God in flesh, let us analyse both these views? > I am not touching Buddhism and Islam in this topic because Islam believes > That Mohammad is not God in flesh and He was only messenger of God. > Buddhism keeps silent on the God and no question of God in flesh for them. > If the Bible told that Krishna was not God in flesh or if Gita told that > Jesus was not God in flesh, then both Bible and Gita are valid. > When the scriptures does not mention like this in complete version > How can you interpret your own scripture in the other way? > More over all of you whether Christians or Hindus have to accept > The concept of one God, there is no other alternative way in this. > You say that your God created this entire world and Hindus say that > Their God created this same entire world, unfortunately my dear friends! > I do not find two worlds and I find only one world! Now tell me > > Whether this single entire world is created by Christian God or Hindu God? > One of you or both should be wrong and in that case who is wrong? > Either you should have two separate worlds or you should have single God. > If both the scriptures are wrong and both Gods did not create this Universe > Then the vote goes to Science, which says that the world exists by itself. > They say that nobody created this world and it is self-existent. > Since both are sacred scriptures, let us solve this problem by analysis. > If you are rigid of your own scripture, I am not touching you at all. > If one is rigid where is the place for logical analysis and judgement? > In the court if one party says that what ever it says is the only truth > What is the necessity of the court, advocates, arguments and judgement? > If you leave rigidity and become flexible to accept the truth > After analysis only, you are most welcome to my Universal Spirituality. > > Even in the small worldly matters, we apply open mind and analysis, > I wonder why you are not applying the same open mind and analysis > In such most important spiritual knowledge which decides everything. > The word Jesus stands for Human Incarnation and similarly the word Krishna. Where did datta get this from? this is the 2cd time i've read this. He likes his own spin, puts the scriptures, like blacks and whites clothes together throught a washing machine and squeezes out his own blend of greyness. He likes the grey zone, lol. lol! He even speaks like one in the grey zone, half english and half hindi accent, what's up with that? lol. grey sound. lol > In scriptures, we have to take the internal meanings and not simple external > Meanings for the sacred words, each word is ocean of divine knowledge. boy that's childish talk. Let's explain that properly. One should be able to discern the differnce between literal, symbolism and figures of speech. All the prophets spoke utilizing these diferences depending on the analogy. i would care to differ with each word being 'ocean of divine knowledge' but will give datta a © for trying to appeal to 12 year olds, so they can understand. > Bible says that the lamb will come in red robe, here what is the meaning > For the word lamb? This again is the 2cd time he says this. Surya i hate to tell you but your datta is CLUELESS and you should tell him, i'm telling him to " ZIP IT " and stop talking foolishly about the Bible. Listen , he's going to talk about this lamb animal, just bveing a figure of speech. It's like he's addressing 12 year olds. Is it simple animal with four legs and one tail. > Does this mean that Jesus will come again as animal? Here you say > That the word lamb stands for the Lord who is pure and innocent > Like the lamb, at one place you take the inner meaning and at other place > You take the external meaning! inner meaning , external ____reminds me of an 'innie or outie' referring to belly buttons lololol. >Therefore, the word Jesus means God in flesh, now Jesus means God in Flesh. Surya, where did you find this crackedpot??????????? he makes up as he goes. > Which means that the Lord comes in human form with blood and flesh. ya right, there goes God , look he took at left at the corner and walked over the lake, ya sure._______bs! > > This is a great concept, which Jesus tried to establish to the devotees. Great concept? jesus was a good son, prophet as he admitted with aspecial mission to fulfill prophecy. YOur datta looks like he 's trying to do something that's mental, bv/c he sure speaks like a nut case. > Till then the Islam believed only in the formless God called Allah. > Islam does not treat Mohammad as God in flesh even today. > Jesus told that He and His father are one and the same, what does this mean? Jesus said ' i and the Father are one,, if you've seen me you see the Father " this does not imply he is Father sitting there. One is in Word, that I Am like Moses was told by God to tell the jews that I AM sent you. So as Moses as the begotton son David and the chosen sent sons are all one with God,that is one with the Holy Spirit Manifest in each one of us. God is not partial as in love, He loves equally. He did not love Jesus more than he loves you. God Father is not partial but equally disposed to all. Like water rains on weeds as well as good plants. Doesn't discriminate. Your datta is trying to put Jesus up there with his blue god krishna god and then bring them down to earth to meet in him, just like his own website demonstrates. He's going to have a big headache soon. An if not soon , soon. He's got too many heads, for one body, he[s thinking he's like the mythgod brahma with 4 heads lololol > Here the word father does not mean Joseph, the husband of His mother Mary. > If you take the meaning of the word of father in the external sense only > It is impossible because two human beings cannot be one and the same. > That Creator is indicated by the word father and human incarnation by the word Jesus ya ya ya sure datta > Both are one and the same since God pervaded all over the human incarnation. > If you take the meaning of the word Jesus as a particular human body only, > Then the meaning of the word father should also mean another particular human body. > In that case both the human bodies cannot be one and the same because > We are seeing the father and the son represented by two separate human bodies. > Similarly Jesus told that one could reach His father only through Him. > > This again should mean that nobody could see or meet Joseph without Jesus. > But it is not so because several people have seen Joseph even before Jesus was born. > You are taking the inner meaning for the word father and say that father means God. > But for the word Jesus you are taking a particular human body only. man what a bunch a doubletalk > This is not justified and even a child will contradict this different approach. no child would have understood that talk.! > When it is said that Jesus will baptise by fire, does it mean Jesus will sprinkle fire? > In such case the baptized person will be burnt with fire, therefore, the word fire > Means Knowledge as said in Gita " Jnanaagnih " , moreover if you stick the word > Jesus to a particular human body only and if you say that Jesus exists even now, > Please show Me Jesus as the same human body to My eyes also, in the past what a run on rambling sentence, He's worse than me, i thought i rambled. lol ok i'll give him credit, that fire refers to knowledge, he's right there. but that fire lights on in the spirit of love. > When Jesus was alive everyone could show Jesus as human body to anyone. > Whether a believer or a non-believer saw Jesus as human body in the past. > > Now the situation is not the same, you say that you have seen Jesus. > How to believe this unless you show Jesus to Me also just like in the past. From what i'm reading i can tell you don't know the real Jesus from the past, he sure wasn't this supernatural being walking around in the air and poofing peoples arms and legs together. So know you won't see that Jesus , jus tlike the christians won't b/c it doesn 't say anything about him coming back like a miracle thing, nor is the rapture santa clause jesus in the sky coming either lolol Moe literalism twisted by the PHD's somthing like getting your innies and outie's right ! lolol > The difference between the past and the present is that there was human body > In the past called as Jesus and at present that human body does not exist. oh ok , whatever you say datta, ya sure, and try asking God for some truth instead of manufacturing all your own with selected aids to satisfy your greyness. YOu should be be called 'swammigrey'. dear Surya: i suggest you keep those divine datta do's away, i've seen similar posting going on elsewhere. Is this your method of getting his garbage spread out? If so i have no intentions of offending you, neither datta, but if you continue to put idolatry forth spun through washing machine with christianity , i'll toss it out. > > posted by: His servant > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami > www.universal-spirituality.org > > > whitehorserides <green1911@v...> wrote: posted by some Bindu dasa krishna----- follower. > if you get bored since it's easy to do, just go to Whitehorse comments 3/4 way down > > PS ::: you know how many times these hare krisha's, run the other way > when confronted by me who knows there crap inside out. > and can challenge them with the teachings of the Holy Prophets. > > Main reason is the krishna's grand pupada's say Jesus is guru to. > > Guru but not guru like you. > > They catagorically lie. He never affirmed idolatry or eastern hindhu imaginery god worship that was prevelent in the area 2000 years ago.The teachings are not similar, not but for some very selectively > picked lines from the Bible, stategically placed in their diatribe to sound as if he was teaching some kind of hinduism. Sorry, bring on the guru's. > > > > Personals > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. > Lots of someones, actually. Personals > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 dear friend i appreciate you in one angle. you went through the post completely. it looks to me that you neither believe Krishna nor Jesus. probably you believe in yourself only. but don't think others are fools and you are only great, there is equal probability for you to falter because we are all human beings only. when many no. of people are following krishna & Jesus as God, do you mean to say that not even a single intelligent humanbeing is there in that group? instead of calling all of them wrong, why don't you analyse yourself and find out where you are deviating from them? if you find that point the solution is in front of you. if you discard the divine knowledge preached by both of them and depend on yourself only it is near impossible for you to progress in spirituality until and unless you are the creator. in which case you don't require any spiritual effort. i hope you will view this positively. posted by: His servant at the lotus feet of shri datta swami www.universal-spirituality.org whitehorserides <green1911 wrote: First off Jesus was never God the Father, Creator or God in full manifestation in the flesh, this is stupid thinking. He was eve born in immaculate conception.That is another false premise put for by the catholic lying criminals, sorry. Shopping Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Shopping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , prakki surya <dattapr2000> wrote: > > dear friend > > i appreciate you in one angle. you went through the post completely. > > it looks to me that you neither believe Krishna nor Jesus. _________i believe that bothe existed, just diferently than what is been put forth by current day so called religious heads who claim to know them. probably you believe in yourself only. _______no, i believe in you, as much as me, but i'll be selective as to what i accept from people . I 'll measure a man by actions, faith and words, in line with God's Word. but don't think others are fools and you are only great, _______We are equal in God's eyes. God's love is equally distributed. It's a question of how you use what you get. One may be expert at gardening will another at speaking God's Will, but if the spirit of the soul is right with God then the benefit is received the same. Two children recieve love equally, but they are doing differently. The key to receiving Love is to be sure to line up with His Desire. there is equal probability for you to falter because we are all human beings only. ______What you consider is, soul in flesh body, all spirits are subjected to the same two options. either doing with Gods pleasure in mind or you don't. So one faulteres when either he sins " knowingly or unknowingly " , ie in 'ignorance'. There's actually a provision made for sin in 'ignorance' of God's Law. > > when many no. of people are following krishna & Jesus as God, do you mean to say that not even a single intelligent human being is there in that group? Intelligence is not measured by brain power, but how or what spirit, you serve and love God. Good intelligence, as Jesus taught is like the innocence of a child. The state of most krishna followers is " intellect intox " . lol They make a show of their love through regiment, routines and dismiss those who don't follow, said routines. It has been seen that the regemented strict austure, everyday in and out routine will 'lock the brian', not free it. Holy, doesn't imply 'lock brain' no heart. Or like their system of who's who, and who are you, on the spiritual ladder. There is too much emphasis on this 'guru Who', 'swami that' and 'self realized this', and 'spiritual order' going on. Often it's like they're turning out robots. lol, and not lovers of God. They end up missing the loving God in each other. You may notice the general hindu people are more relaxed about god than those trying to act like they know god. But blue-gods and such are not Truely God and there relaxed attitude is compared to the born again or safety net christians who seem comfortable, but are lost in false hopes. > >instead of calling all of them wrong, why don't you analyse yourself and find out where you are deviating from them? if you find that point the solution is in front of you. _______Let's put it this way, when in the world of this life, socialism and capitolisma and corruption, there is no room for judgememnt. It's next too impossible to live without having to slip in truth. HOWEVER, there is life in Truth when you take up that path of life in God. You see, Jesus said ''first get the log out of you eye, or dirt out of your heart, then you too can judge''(paraphrased). But that implied judging, is not according to you, but according to God's Word. That 's the measuring stick. But even there it must be done timely and with love. It's not like i'm a saint and you're a sinner, oh bow to me you pagan. If you met me on the street as an ordinary person, and we talked, i'm not condescending, nor intimidating, but my pattern is to encourage and speak Truth. Now this internet chat stuff is much more,____ here now, what's your point?___ or are you good and expressing your point. Unless of course you want to have mush potatoes and it's all love man and everything's cool, just relax and live in your own love. That's just another facade of look i'm cool thing and love it all. May be good for poetry, but God is not just about esoteric poetry. So what you see, is words on paper, not human interaction. This is not a warm type of personal kind of place. ESPECIALLY when talking about God, Love, Right, wrong, _____These are truly the 'HOT BUTTON' issues, compared to the world of finances and politics and which movies do you like. We are discussion the essence or rudiments of human existence and everyone is 1/2- full serious on this forum. Jesus said ''let your yes be yes and no, no.'' Why, what did he imply? If your mind is filled with love, then that's where your treasure is. What you dwell on, will come out on your lips as words. Words may not always appear to edify, but if your heart is set on God, Love " AUTO PILOT " . Then God will take care of all. Why? b/c Perfect Love does not depend on self, but the 'Self' and in that Self is Love. As i've repeated elsewhere, be a conduit of Love, let it flow, from the Soul up and out. Your 'hari stuff' unfortunately starts at the head and goes down then back up, so it becomes very heady, and it turns out as 'intellectual love', or scientific love, lol, if you wish. THINK on that. Surya, step back, for a moment and read with an open, objective mind how your datta speaks, try it. Look how much emphasis is on analysis and intellectualism. Granted my mind is razor sharp, but not b/c my mind is, but God is. Let the Holy Spirit be your guide, not the stone god, or not gods, or surya's god. Just let the Love of the Holy Spirit come out from within.__more if you ? The stone God world s has some very interesting expressions, but, it's laced in mythology. Then so called men of " " " " authority " " " that appear so " " realized " " to the western world, typically young men/women embrace this stuff b/c of lost love, or a cold kind of upbringing, broken homes, hearts etc, etc +,+,+,+, and they find the enthusiasm and familiarity in those who are into this, cool hand guru god, truth, and search mode. now it's become guru ratings lol,(i see u over there, lol.) If peace be within, who's within? ok it's Who. Remember that Who is not you. i'm dealing with that misconception in the impersonal expression, which is slightly different but difficult nonetheless. > > if you discard the divine knowledge preached by both of them and depend on yourself only it is near impossible for you to progress in spirituality until and unless you are the creator. in which case you don't require any spiritual effort. i hope you will view this positively. Point 1 Positively, yes, i look first to the positive for everything. If it's not, then i'll point it out. i don't discard Divine knowledge. Point 2 Was your heart 'divine' when you met datta? no or yes_____ So he told you that his words were the 'divine truth', and you've excepted it. So did your 'not divine' mind, now become divine? or just filled with datta " " so called 'divine talking' and using words like 'this is divine'? __ Did you get that? Point 3 Now there's a clear expression from the Holy Prophets, first clean the cup before you put fresh water in it. Do you understand? You cannot put new wine in old bottles, understand? This is what's precisely going on in your guru-do world. Eventually, the Light of Truth keeps pushing and pushng and pushing up and until you are set at odds with all you've been doing, then you really start to get to the crux of the matter.______like why after all these years am i still thinking differently but really the same. So ? Classic krishna vs Simple Truth. God is the Simple Truth, He doesn't need fancy cars, or all the money, He owns all. When you hook up to God, you don't need fancy cars or money because you have all. What's the 'all' Surya????????? knowledge or love? Let's play tennis, Surya. the ball is in your court. and it's Love-40. lololol. just kidding, i's not my ego that i say this, it's BIG EGO, saying " wake them up with this, they need some strong medicine. " kind of like shock treatment !!!! If it takes shock treatment then so it is. The key is letting God do the work, He's pretty intense at times.Tthe stuff He says through the Holy Spirit by the mouth of His own the I AM, can be very heavy, for some who are attached. Some here think i have a big ego,____ what do they think of God? He has the biggest ego. lol, but then again He is the most gentliest of all, too. Love is, it's not mush candy ass crap, nor is it rigid intellectualism. Love knows all, sees all, because it searches out the hearts. Know one can argue against Love, Love is King. Who is king, but God. There's some God Loving to chew on. Direct from the Horse's mouth, not this horse, but The Horse. lol So Surya i didn't forget you. peace and thanks whitehorserides ps- i reserve the right to correction or addition to clarify any of the points or philosophy above. > > posted by: His servant > at the lotus feet of shri datta swami > www.universal-spirituality.org > > whitehorserides <green1911@v...> wrote: > > First off Jesus was never God the Father, Creator or God in full manifestation in the flesh, this is stupid thinking. He was eve born in immaculate conception.That is another false premise put for by the catholic lying criminals, sorry. > > > Shopping > Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Shopping > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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