Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 In physics black holes are referred to as singularities. What this roughly means is that all the laws of physics break down, all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. are collapsed. Black holes can serve as analogy for the living moment, for in the living moment there is no time, no is there distance (distance requires time). In the living moment all thoughts and forms collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The dream of events and happenings continues after a fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that whatever shadows there are instantly fade in significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, such is the impermanent non-lastingness of events as they unfold from the vital life of the burning Now. There are those who will not understand this. There are those who will understand it perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an " event horizon " applies. Once the " event horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows with crushing intensity. The dross of old notions, dearly held, are burned away. Eventually more and more the crust of self is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving a silent burning blaze. So it is not about ideas and understanding. It is about an event horizon, and its being crossed or not. The blaze of burning presence is utterly indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the infinite window of nothingness whereby everything collapsed to a singularity. Such yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of flame... but like the tongues of flame, the yearnings *are* again and again. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 thank you a tongue of flame in darkness Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > In physics black holes are referred to as > singularities. What this roughly means is > that all the laws of physics break down, > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > are collapsed. > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > moment, for in the living moment there is no > time, no is there distance (distance requires > time). > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > dream of events and happenings continues after a > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > burning Now. > > There are those who will not understand this. > There are those who will understand it > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > Eventually more and more the crust of self > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > a silent burning blaze. > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > or not. > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > infinite window of nothingness whereby > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > In physics black holes are referred to as > singularities. What this roughly means is > that all the laws of physics break down, > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > are collapsed. > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > moment, for in the living moment there is no > time, no is there distance (distance requires > time). > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > dream of events and happenings continues after a > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > burning Now. > > There are those who will not understand this. > There are those who will understand it > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > Eventually more and more the crust of self > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > a silent burning blaze. > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > or not. > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > infinite window of nothingness whereby > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > Bill > DREAM ALLONG WITH ME , FLY ME TO THE MOON ~~~~~~~~~~~ having fun yet? are we now into science and forgetting philosophy, the essence of love and perfections of life. are we trading love for mechanics, bill? is this the Quantum leap theory, bill? black holes and the abyss , yes that too is well addressed. i think another forum or discussin group might serve that well. This is off topic moderater man, _______________boot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > thank you > a tongue of flame in darkness > ya ______________ALICE COOPER______________ > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > are collapsed. > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > time). > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > burning Now. > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > There are those who will understand it > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > or not. > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Bill wrote [[in physics black holes are referred to as singularities. What this roughly means is that all the laws of physics break down, all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. are collapsed. Black holes can serve as analogy for the living moment, for in the living moment there is no time, no is there distance (distance requires time).]] ** I think you are in good company with this thought Bill. Every read Dr. Fred A. Wolf? http://www.fredalanwolf.com/ He too has equated black holes to .. the power of now. Be Whole!.. Siddhananda Devi Hermits_Cave- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 > Every read Dr. Fred A. Wolf? > http://www.fredalanwolf.com/ > > He too has equated black holes to .. the power of now. Wow... that sounds very interesting indeed. Thanks for the tip! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 from the depth of darkness... LOLlolLOLlolLOLlol who is there?!? the belly of the universe. Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > thank you > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > ya ______________ALICE COOPER______________ > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > time). > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > burning Now. > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > There are those who will understand it > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > or not. > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > from the depth of darkness... > > > LOLlolLOLlolLOLlol > > who is there?!? > the belly of the universe. > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > wrote: > > > > > > thank you > > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > ya ______________ALICE COOPER______________ > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > > time). > > > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > > burning Now. > > > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > > There are those who will understand it > > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > yearning 's lingering lusts when oh when, we'll we be free of lust. this is material conscience, stuck on the yearnings. Purge the heart from all sin desire, you are captured by brute beasts posturing as kings. and all they do is engage you in flings. Look over and above the trash of this life,for who needs to live like a begger in strife. so whether you are in a tall house or out in the cold. it doesn't mattter if you heart is filled with lust. for inside a house or out in the cold your heart is still rust. so get out the polish and clean it up and i'll be over for veggies and sup. do i hear an invitation????????????????????????????lol (*_*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 so what? Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > > > from the depth of darkness... > > > > > > LOLlolLOLlolLOLlol > > > > who is there?!? > > the belly of the universe. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > thank you > > > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > > > ya ______________ALICE COOPER______________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > > > time). > > > > > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > > > burning Now. > > > > > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > > > There are those who will understand it > > > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > > yearning 's lingering lusts > when oh when, we'll we be free of lust. > > this is material conscience, > stuck on the yearnings. > Purge the heart from all sin desire, > you are captured by brute beasts > posturing as kings. > and all they do > is engage you in flings. > Look over and above the trash > of this life,for who needs to live > like a begger in strife. > so whether you are in a tall house > or out in the cold. it doesn't mattter > if you heart is filled with lust. > for inside a house or out in the cold > your heart is still rust. > > so get out the polish and clean it up > and i'll be over for veggies and sup. > > do i hear an invitation????????????????????????????lol > > (*_*) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Dear Bill, This is a very good post. And, I have a request: Could you please describe what you mean by " event horizon " in this context [the context of the moment]. With warm regards, ac. [NNB] Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > thank you > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > are collapsed. > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > time). > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > burning Now. > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > There are those who will understand it > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > or not. > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Q: Could you please describe what you mean by " event horizon " in this context [the context of the moment]. --------------- I take it you understand the concept of event horizon in the context of physics. Keep in mind that the notion of event horizon was used metaphorically. In the context of physics event horizon has a very precise explanation. As a metaphor in the context of the " Singularity " post there is not a correspondingly precise explanation. The key passage that your question applies to is: " Once the 'event horizon' is crossed there is a *falling in*. Having 'fallen in' the immediacy of Now grows with crushing intensity. The dross of old notions, dearly held, are burned away. Eventually more and more the crust of self is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving a silent burning blaze. " So it is not about ideas and understanding. It is about an event horizon, and its being crossed or not. " Note: A saying that expresses the same basic idea is, " When the fruit is ripe, it falls from the tree. " I will, however, attempt further elaboration. The key point is that it is not about an intellectual understanding. At some point " being in the now " starts gaining momentum, such that the grip of thought, the movement of thought begins to lose its hold. Technically, there is a point of " critical mass " (again a parallel to black holes) where being in the now further begets being in the now. All of this is independent of any sense of " who am I " , any sense of self, any sense of personhood. There is no- " body " , no- " one " , no sentient entity that is undergoing the kind of transformation being described. Rather, the transformation described entails the disintegration of such patterns in perception. As time compresses into the intense immediacy of now there is no time for there to be any " one " to experience. As stated before, there may be apparent " events " , but they are fleeting and transitiory. The crushing intensity of Now obliterates all in its billiant immediacy. The " event horizon " , then, refers to some point at which being in the now begets being in the now and takes on the quality of a " runaway reaction " (again a physics notion) such that the Now becomes an irresistable attractor and the power of the old ego-based thought cycles and regimens is overcome. Bill Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Dear Bill, > > This is a very good post. > > And, I have a request: > > Could you please describe what you mean by > " event horizon " in this context [the context > of the moment]. > > With warm regards, > ac. > > [NNB] > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > thank you > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > time). > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > burning Now. > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > There are those who will understand it > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > or not. > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > Q: Could you please describe what you mean by > " event horizon " in this context [the context > of the moment]. > --------------- > > I take it you understand the concept of event > horizon in the context of physics. Keep in > mind that the notion of event horizon was used > metaphorically. Bill i was curious as to what you imply by 'keep in mind that the notion'. are these two seperate or is the action one, or two and what distinguishes mind and notion? Is there an ocean in that notion or an ocean in the notion? lol In the context of physics > event horizon has a very precise explanation. > As a metaphor in the context of the " Singularity " > post there is not a correspondingly precise > explanation. > > The key passage that your question applies to is: > > " Once the 'event horizon' is crossed there is > a *falling in*. Having 'fallen in' the > immediacy of Now grows with crushing > intensity. The dross of old notions, dearly > held, are burned away. Eventually more and > more the crust of self is melted and > extinquished at the core, leaving a silent > burning blaze. __________so, since the notions are burned away does that still leave mind? > > " So it is not about ideas and understanding. > It is about an event horizon, and its being > crossed or not. " _____________ok so further splain your self here. > > Note: A saying that expresses the same basic > idea is, " When the fruit is ripe, it falls from > the tree. " I will, however, attempt further > elaboration. > > The key point is that it is not about an > intellectual understanding. At some point " being > in the now " starts gaining momentum, such that > the grip of thought, the movement of thought > begins to lose its hold. ____________is this some experimental dream idea scientifically proven or is this how you want to see it? Technically, there is a > point of " critical mass " (again a parallel to > black holes) where being in the now further > begets being in the now. All of this is > independent of any sense of " who am I " , any sense > of self, any sense of personhood. There is > no- " body " , no- " one " , no sentient entity that is > undergoing the kind of transformation being > described. Rather, the transformation described > entails the disintegration of such patterns in > perception. As time compresses into the intense > immediacy of now there is no time for there to be > any " one " to experience. As stated before, there > may be apparent " events " , but they are fleeting > and transitiory. The crushing intensity of Now > obliterates all in its billiant immediacy. __________and darkness prevails? > > The " event horizon " , then, refers to some point at > which being in the now begets being in the now > and takes on the quality of a " runaway reaction " > (again a physics notion) such that the Now > becomes an irresistable attractor and the power > of the old ego-based thought cycles and regimens > is overcome. ______so does the 'event horizon' become the equalizer or the stablizer in the ego-based thought or mind or is that notions? Does such a plangent of irresistance become the erotic mind or exotic mind or is there another euphoric cosmetic expression to the application that can excite the false egoic to increase it's own spheric role in the plasmodium of the plenary? Do we ever come down bill, from the spheral rotation of the unknown black holes? Did you conjecture this with notion or mind or egoic manifestations through realized colour formations, by smearing paint on the canvas in a moment of absrtact thought? i find your your prowess of the unknown most exhilirating and i'm honoured to have this moment in ______________________. signed, forgotten in time_______ oh let me down gently lol > > Bill > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Dear Bill, > > > > This is a very good post. > > > > And, I have a request: > > > > Could you please describe what you mean by > > " event horizon " in this context [the context > > of the moment]. > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. > > > > [NNB] > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > wrote: > > > > > > thank you > > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > > time). > > > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > > burning Now. > > > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > > There are those who will understand it > > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > > > > Q: Could you please describe what you mean by > > " event horizon " in this context [the context > > of the moment]. > > --------------- > > > > I take it you understand the concept of event > > horizon in the context of physics. Keep in > > mind that the notion of event horizon was used > > metaphorically. > > Bill > i was curious as to what you imply by 'keep in mind that the notion'. > are these two seperate or is the action one, or two and what > distinguishes mind and notion? > Is there an ocean in that notion or an ocean in the notion? lol > > > In the context of physics > > event horizon has a very precise explanation. > > As a metaphor in the context of the " Singularity " > > post there is not a correspondingly precise > > explanation. > > > > The key passage that your question applies to is: > > > > " Once the 'event horizon' is crossed there is > > a *falling in*. Having 'fallen in' the > > immediacy of Now grows with crushing > > intensity. The dross of old notions, dearly > > held, are burned away. Eventually more and > > more the crust of self is melted and > > extinquished at the core, leaving a silent > > burning blaze. > > __________so, since the notions are burned away does that still leave > mind? > > > > " So it is not about ideas and understanding. > > It is about an event horizon, and its being > > crossed or not. " > > _____________ok so further splain your self here. > > > > Note: A saying that expresses the same basic > > idea is, " When the fruit is ripe, it falls from > > the tree. " I will, however, attempt further > > elaboration. > > > > The key point is that it is not about an > > intellectual understanding. At some point " being > > in the now " starts gaining momentum, such that > > the grip of thought, the movement of thought > > begins to lose its hold. > > ____________is this some experimental dream idea scientifically > proven or is this how you want to see it? > > Technically, there is a > > point of " critical mass " (again a parallel to > > black holes) where being in the now further > > begets being in the now. All of this is > > independent of any sense of " who am I " , any sense > > of self, any sense of personhood. There is > > no- " body " , no- " one " , no sentient entity that is > > undergoing the kind of transformation being > > described. Rather, the transformation described > > entails the disintegration of such patterns in > > perception. As time compresses into the intense > > immediacy of now there is no time for there to be > > any " one " to experience. As stated before, there > > may be apparent " events " , but they are fleeting > > and transitiory. The crushing intensity of Now > > obliterates all in its billiant immediacy. > > __________and darkness prevails? > > > > > > The " event horizon " , then, refers to some point at > > which being in the now begets being in the now > > and takes on the quality of a " runaway reaction " > > (again a physics notion) such that the Now > > becomes an irresistable attractor and the power > > of the old ego-based thought cycles and regimens > > is overcome. > > ______so does the 'event horizon' become the equalizer or the > stablizer in the ego-based thought or mind or is that notions? > Does such a plangent of irresistance become the erotic mind or exotic > mind or is there another euphoric cosmetic expression to the > application that can excite the false egoic to increase it's own > spheric role in the plasmodium of the plenary? > > Do we ever come down bill, from the spheral rotation of the unknown > black holes? > > Did you conjecture this with notion or mind or egoic manifestations > through realized colour formations, by smearing paint on the canvas > in a moment of absrtact thought? > > i find your your prowess of the unknown most exhilirating and i'm > honoured to have this moment in ______________________. > > signed, > > > forgotten in time_______ oh let me down gently > > > lol > > > > Bill > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > Dear Bill, > > > > > > This is a very good post. > > > > > > And, I have a request: > > > > > > Could you please describe what you mean by > > > " event horizon " in this context [the context > > > of the moment]. > > > > > > With warm regards, > > > ac. > > > > > > [NNB] > > > > > so bill may be you missed my questions here's a replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2005 Report Share Posted December 9, 2005 Very Nice, Bill! So once the Black Hole has sucked the whole galaxy [the world, the thoughts]... when and how does the outward expansion [the thoughts, the world] begins Again? Or, does it never happen at all? .... Because, as far as remember... the physical Black Holes explode in galaxies Again and so it goes... From Singularity... to multiplicity... From Multiplicity... to Singularity... and back... and again! Seeing that Hawkins remarked: Why does the universe goes through all the troubles of 'becoming'? To] what end? Does the " thought world' too goes the same way... back and forth? With warm regards, ac. Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > Q: Could you please describe what you mean by > " event horizon " in this context [the context > of the moment]. > --------------- > > I take it you understand the concept of event > horizon in the context of physics. Keep in > mind that the notion of event horizon was used > metaphorically. In the context of physics > event horizon has a very precise explanation. > As a metaphor in the context of the " Singularity " > post there is not a correspondingly precise > explanation. > > The key passage that your question applies to is: > > " Once the 'event horizon' is crossed there is > a *falling in*. Having 'fallen in' the > immediacy of Now grows with crushing > intensity. The dross of old notions, dearly > held, are burned away. Eventually more and > more the crust of self is melted and > extinquished at the core, leaving a silent > burning blaze. > > " So it is not about ideas and understanding. > It is about an event horizon, and its being > crossed or not. " > > Note: A saying that expresses the same basic > idea is, " When the fruit is ripe, it falls from > the tree. " I will, however, attempt further > elaboration. > > The key point is that it is not about an > intellectual understanding. At some point " being > in the now " starts gaining momentum, such that > the grip of thought, the movement of thought > begins to lose its hold. Technically, there is a > point of " critical mass " (again a parallel to > black holes) where being in the now further > begets being in the now. All of this is > independent of any sense of " who am I " , any sense > of self, any sense of personhood. There is > no- " body " , no- " one " , no sentient entity that is > undergoing the kind of transformation being > described. Rather, the transformation described > entails the disintegration of such patterns in > perception. As time compresses into the intense > immediacy of now there is no time for there to be > any " one " to experience. As stated before, there > may be apparent " events " , but they are fleeting > and transitiory. The crushing intensity of Now > obliterates all in its billiant immediacy. > > The " event horizon " , then, refers to some point at > which being in the now begets being in the now > and takes on the quality of a " runaway reaction " > (again a physics notion) such that the Now > becomes an irresistable attractor and the power > of the old ego-based thought cycles and regimens > is overcome. > > > Bill > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Dear Bill, > > > > This is a very good post. > > > > And, I have a request: > > > > Could you please describe what you mean by > > " event horizon " in this context [the context > > of the moment]. > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. > > > > [NNB] > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > wrote: > > > > > > thank you > > > a tongue of flame in darkness > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > In physics black holes are referred to as > > > > singularities. What this roughly means is > > > > that all the laws of physics break down, > > > > all notions of time, space, dimension, etc. > > > > are collapsed. > > > > > > > > Black holes can serve as analogy for the living > > > > moment, for in the living moment there is no > > > > time, no is there distance (distance requires > > > > time). > > > > > > > > In the living moment all thoughts and forms > > > > collapse. In the intense vibrance of the moment > > > > consciousness becomes as a plasma, compressed as > > > > to a point, but also seemingly everywhere. The > > > > dream of events and happenings continues after a > > > > fashion, but diaphanously, transparently, as > > > > fleeting dreams, as shadows dancing on a wall. > > > > At the core is a vibrance of such intensity that > > > > whatever shadows there are instantly fade in > > > > significance. As the tongues of flame in a fire, > > > > such is the impermanent non-lastingness of > > > > events as they unfold from the vital life of the > > > > burning Now. > > > > > > > > There are those who will not understand this. > > > > There are those who will understand it > > > > perfectly. As with a black hole the notion of an > > > > " event horizon " applies. Once the " event > > > > horizon " is crossed there is a *falling in*. > > > > Having " fallen in " the immediacy of Now grows > > > > with crushing intensity. The dross of old > > > > notions, dearly held, are burned away. > > > > Eventually more and more the crust of self > > > > is melted and extinquished at the core, leaving > > > > a silent burning blaze. > > > > > > > > So it is not about ideas and understanding. It > > > > is about an event horizon, and its being crossed > > > > or not. > > > > > > > > The blaze of burning presence is utterly > > > > indifferent. And yet, somehow also, there is an > > > > *ache*, a yearning to reach back out across the > > > > infinite window of nothingness whereby > > > > everything collapsed to a singularity. Such > > > > yearnings are fleeting, just as the tongues of > > > > flame... but like the tongues of flame, the > > > > yearnings *are* again and again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Well, ac, methinks you are pressing the black hole metaphor of the Singularity post into warp-mode, where whether it stretches, breaks, or just snaps back in one's face is unclear. > Because, as far as remember... > the physical Black Holes explode > in galaxies Again and so it goes... Hadn't heard of this. Googled a bit and found references to exploding " mini-black holes " , as well as: " Philosopher Quentin Smith and physicist Lee Smolin have independently suggested a mechanism for the evolution of universes by natural selection. They propose a multi-universe scenario in which each universe is the residue of an exploding black hole that was previously formed in another universe " . That, however, is entirely speculative. If, when you say: > Because, as far as remember... > the physical Black Holes explode > in galaxies Again and so it goes... you mean black holes exploding as galaxies in *our* universe, I don't believe there is any scientific support for that. Hawkings proposed that black holes " leak " energy, which has been substantiated by experiments. As for the metaphorical black hole of the Singularity post, perhaps *it* leaks a bit too. I was actually alluding to that at the end of the original post. But I see no scientific necessity in any of this. It is merely the utilization of a metaphor drawn from science for poetic purposes. Which is not to dampen your enthusiastic off-spinnings of ideas along the lines you mention. Indeed, the little research I did investigating your remarks let to some very interesting articles, such as: http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/hawkingsenigma012302.htm The above I found to be a fascinating discussion of the strange landscape of contemporay physics. A quote from the article: We clearly see the world the way we see a hologram, " Dr. Bousso said. " We see three dimensions. When you look at one of those [hologram] chips, it looks pretty real, but in our case the illusion is perfect. " Dr. Susskind added: " We don't read the hologram. We are the hologram. " I highly recommend the article to anyone interested in the far-out thoughtscapes of contemporary physics. Bill AdvaitaToZen , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Very Nice, Bill! > > So once the Black Hole has > sucked the whole galaxy > [the world, the thoughts]... > > when and how does the outward expansion > [the thoughts, the world] begins > Again? > > Or, does it never happen at all? > > ... > > Because, as far as remember... > the physical Black Holes explode > in galaxies Again and so it goes... > > > From Singularity... to multiplicity... > From Multiplicity... to Singularity... > > and back... and again! > > Seeing that Hawkins remarked: > > Why does the universe goes through > all the troubles of 'becoming'? To] > what end? > > > Does the " thought world' too goes the same > way... back and forth? > > With warm regards, > ac. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thank you Bill! My message was partly based on: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/white_hole_030917.html .... If black holes and the Big Bang befuddle you, try wrapping your brain around this one: The entire universe may have been created in an explosion inside a black hole. " It's a mathematically plausible model which refines the standard model of the Big Bang, " said Blake Temple, a mathematician at the University of California, Davis. .... The Big Bang has been compared to black holes before, because the tremendous crush of matter that defines a black hole is much like the unfathomable density that preceded the Big Bang. Both phenomena are termed singularities. In the proposed modification to the standard model, the Big Bang is an actual explosion, Temple explained today in a statement, and it occurs within a black hole in an existing space. The shock wave of the explosion is expanding into an infinite space. .... I am aware that as with much of many other thing in space, sub-atomic physics and neurology this too not yet proven however it appeals to me mainly because of its simplicity and consistency. I kind of agree that a phenomenon like Black Hole with greatly small (in size) and infinitely focused energy has a *real* potential of expanding into infinite empty space and creating the entire matter universe by combining and separating in different ratios. IMO [and in my observation] Universe manifests some very simple, consistent and elegant ideas and it replicates it to a great extent: energy -> matter -> energy -> matter water-> vapor-> water water-> ice -> water Similarly: if galaxy -> Black Hole then, possibly [iMO likely] Black Hole -> galaxy Or, E = MC^2 then, MC^2 = E also Galaxy = Black Hole Black Hole = Galaxy .... Some that such phenomenon that I find replicated ware: According to the current understanding the entire matter universe is just a ratio and combination of positive, negative and neutral energy. According to the same understanding, 99.999% of the atom (matter) is empty and rest is energy which seems like particle/string [...we are yet not sure). We are yet not able to see within the sub-atomic particles but I speculated what if the same pattern (the universe being almost all empty and some matter/energy stars here and there, ...then within stars there is still 99.999% of empty space and some energy particles as star is just a mass of matter] follows even within the energy particle, ...that is even the energy particle being almost all (99.999%) empty. It will be pretty consistent with what we see elsewhere in universe and nature, as the one simple, elegant principle [such as electrons going around nucleus, moons going around planets, planets going around stars, galaxy going around back hole] ...applied to great scale. .... But, all that said... I am not an expert on Black Holes. I was mostly asking if thoughts get 'stopped' or 'sucked in' by some process do they then emerge back again? If yes, how, why and when? Of course, an answer might be possible only if you were talking of it in terms of such *real* phenomenon that you are aware of and not just as a teaching metaphor. With warm regards, ac. Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > Well, ac, methinks you are pressing > the black hole metaphor of the > Singularity post into warp-mode, where > whether it stretches, breaks, or just > snaps back in one's face is unclear. > > > Because, as far as remember... > > the physical Black Holes explode > > in galaxies Again and so it goes... > Hadn't heard of this. Googled a bit and > found references to exploding " mini-black > holes " , as well as: > > " Philosopher Quentin Smith and > physicist Lee Smolin have independently > suggested a mechanism for the evolution > of universes by natural selection. They > propose a multi-universe scenario in > which each universe is the residue of > an exploding black hole that was > previously formed in another universe " . > > That, however, is entirely speculative. > > If, when you say: > > Because, as far as remember... > > the physical Black Holes explode > > in galaxies Again and so it goes... > you mean black holes exploding as galaxies > in *our* universe, I don't believe there > is any scientific support for that. > > > Hawkings proposed that black holes " leak " > energy, which has been substantiated by > experiments. > > As for the metaphorical black hole of the > Singularity post, perhaps *it* leaks a bit > too. I was actually alluding to that at > the end of the original post. > > But I see no scientific necessity in any > of this. It is merely the utilization of > a metaphor drawn from science for poetic > purposes. > > Which is not to dampen your enthusiastic > off-spinnings of ideas along the lines you > mention. Indeed, the little research I did > investigating your remarks let to some very > interesting articles, such as: > http://www.arn.org/docs2/news/hawkingsenigma012302.htm > The above I found to be a fascinating > discussion of the strange landscape of > contemporay physics. A quote from the > article: > > We clearly see the world the way we see a hologram, " > Dr. Bousso said. " We see three dimensions. When you > look at one of those [hologram] chips, it looks pretty > real, but in our case the illusion is perfect. " > Dr. Susskind added: " We don't read the hologram. We > are the hologram. " > > I highly recommend the article to anyone > interested in the far-out thoughtscapes > of contemporary physics. > > > Bill > > > > > AdvaitaToZen , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Very Nice, Bill! > > > > So once the Black Hole has > > sucked the whole galaxy > > [the world, the thoughts]... > > > > when and how does the outward expansion > > [the thoughts, the world] begins > > Again? > > > > Or, does it never happen at all? > > > > ... > > > > Because, as far as remember... > > the physical Black Holes explode > > in galaxies Again and so it goes... > > > > > > From Singularity... to multiplicity... > > From Multiplicity... to Singularity... > > > > and back... and again! > > > > Seeing that Hawkins remarked: > > > > Why does the universe goes through > > all the troubles of 'becoming'? To] > > what end? > > > > > > Does the " thought world' too goes the same > > way... back and forth? > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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