Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 On another list someone writing about their experiences working in a health and yoga center wrote: " ...and the process exposed the sordid underbelly of their humanity... All those rough edges get exposed and you can't help but bump up against them. In the end I became very grateful for them, and my experience there. " It is interesting how working in the " spiritual trenches " as it were can bring forth some of the deepest forms of spiritual growth. I have had/am having similar experiences in my work with first emotionally disturbed children and teenagers, and now with mentally ill adults. The key in what the person wrote, as I see it, is the part about the exposed underbelly of humanity. That is what at first may seem ugly, but in the end is (hopefully) seen to be the great beauty. It is really that one is seeing the truth, as the challenges are too deep for the dainty formalities of society, for all the " cover-ups " . In this kind of work I have found that simply " being in my heart " is the key. I don't mean anything particularly mystical by that. I mean simply being centered in a very authentic way. The emotionally disturbed and the mentally ill seem to have a very keen sense of whether one is being authentic with them. And because I am able to *genuinely* like them, to appreciate the person hidden inside (even if the outer behavior is not entirely pleasant), again and again I find them really opening to me, sometimes with words, sometimes with just a look or a smile. I've been thinking about this recently, and it does seem to me that what people want the most is to be treated with genuine dignity and respect. Many of the people I work with haven't had much of that. But when they *do* receive it, it is amazing the deep ways they will respond. It is as if they just need someone to believe in them to help them get back to believing in themselves. When I speak of " being in my heart " , what I am really talking about is being myself in a true, authentic way. And one way I see that in relation to the clients I work with is that I am being like a tuning fork. If I set up a true reference vibration, that helps them get back to finding that same true vibration in themselves. It's there, but they may have lost track of it along the way. And that, I think, is a very pragmatic way of looking at the often so very lofty notion of " truth " . It is easy to think of truth/Truth as some transcendental absolute. But being oneself in a simple, heartful, authentic way, and treating all others *from there* with deep respect and dignity... a very *human* notion of truth as it were, perhaps that is all we really need. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Beautiful description, Bill, When I finished reading it there arose the question are those metally ill kids or adults not too genuine and that their illness is the expression of the only possible genuineness in their situation ? Is there a borderline between being genuine and mentally ill ? Maybe what you identify as your genuineness which opens long ago spilt and locked potentials in these people is soemthing totally different ? It could be your own potentiality which is wide open without fear, ready to receive whatever comes and to fathom life with a kind of 6th sense prepared for it ? Werner Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > On another list someone writing about > their experiences working in a health > and yoga center wrote: > > " ...and the process exposed the sordid > underbelly of their humanity... All > those rough edges get exposed and you > can't help but bump up against them. > In the end I became very grateful for > them, and my experience there. " > > It is interesting how working in the > " spiritual trenches " as it were can bring > forth some of the deepest forms of spiritual > growth. > > I have had/am having similar experiences in > my work with first emotionally disturbed > children and teenagers, and now with > mentally ill adults. > > The key in what the person wrote, as I see > it, is the part about the exposed > underbelly of humanity. That is what at > first may seem ugly, but in the end is > (hopefully) seen to be the great beauty. > It is really that one is seeing the truth, > as the challenges are too deep for the > dainty formalities of society, for all the > " cover-ups " . > > In this kind of work I have found that > simply " being in my heart " is the key. I > don't mean anything particularly mystical > by that. I mean simply being centered in a > very authentic way. The emotionally > disturbed and the mentally ill seem to have > a very keen sense of whether one is being > authentic with them. > > And because I am able to *genuinely* like > them, to appreciate the person hidden > inside (even if the outer behavior is not > entirely pleasant), again and again I find > them really opening to me, sometimes with > words, sometimes with just a look or a > smile. > > I've been thinking about this recently, and > it does seem to me that what people want > the most is to be treated with genuine > dignity and respect. Many of the people I > work with haven't had much of that. But > when they *do* receive it, it is amazing > the deep ways they will respond. It is as > if they just need someone to believe in > them to help them get back to believing in > themselves. > > When I speak of " being in my heart " , what I > am really talking about is being myself in > a true, authentic way. And one way I see > that in relation to the clients I work with > is that I am being like a tuning fork. If I > set up a true reference vibration, that > helps them get back to finding that same > true vibration in themselves. It's there, > but they may have lost track of it along > the way. > > And that, I think, is a very pragmatic way > of looking at the often so very lofty > notion of " truth " . It is easy to think of > truth/Truth as some transcendental > absolute. But being oneself in a simple, > heartful, authentic way, and treating all > others *from there* with deep respect and > dignity... a very *human* notion of truth > as it were, perhaps that is all we really > need. > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > >> > And that, I think, is a very pragmatic way > of looking at the often so very lofty > notion of " truth " . It is easy to think of > truth/Truth as some transcendental > absolute. But being oneself in a simple, > heartful, authentic way, and treating all > others *from there* with deep respect and > dignity... a very *human* notion of truth > as it were, perhaps that is all we really > need. > > > Bill > nice to see you acknowledge an 'individual self' and not be in negation of all for the nothingness, but to be able to identify that spirit-souls are truthfully unique unto themselves though still are part of the One and that you can as a good brother help them identify with that whole. This is the teachings of the Holy Spirit. Basically almost all eastern forms of transcendental mysticism focus on the " I Am " or Oneness, but God and the Prophets especially Jesus brought the " Your Are " into focus again, which was originally from Moses but got lost. And the premise for that is love your brothers/sisters equally treaating them as you would like to be treated. Therefore the focus is to look outside into the heart of others and see them as brother/sister. This is basic 101 sales by Carnegie' ' How to win friends and influence people " Granted as far as philosophy goes, it's relative to know oneself as an eternal soul and not this temporal, corporal body, but that is the beginning of spiritual awakenings a means to becoming purely compassionate, kind and caring and radiate love. So much of this impersonal philosophy is set up as validating the 'self and the i am' and thus there is a trapping of this which starts to see within as the all important one. That's precisely why you have God stepping up and discounting all eastern mysticism as idolatry and a practice in selfishness. Not Love. You have being describing connecting with the 'individuals' inside, this is important. i too had a empolyee, university graduate with a degree in music, who was daignosed clinically manic depressive, being in straight jackets, tried to commit suicide several times, and so on. Anyways, despite his severe weaknesses in work habits, i kept him under my wing for years, and was a loving father figure to him. Won't go into all the stories and details but they are interesting and as rewarding for me as him. point is recognition, Jesus and the Holy Prophets had 'no respect of persons', which simply implied norespect for those who pushed 'idol theories of god' or the ways of the jews and their cronisms of the Temple functions and false teachings, which are consistent today, as well as in christianity. So i have no respect for them. However, that does not imply i won't respect you in this world for your house rules or business life. That's a horse of a different color, pun intended. But as the Word of God goes , there is no better expression of intimate personal loving expression of non duality and love, as is written, in the Bible. i have no respect for the three main exponents of the Bible religions today they have made a complete mockery of God's Word. There may be some good coming from Niz's teachings , i concur, but it's not the expression that will render one to pure and perfect liberation through purification of the heart in caring, kindness and compassion. It's not about me, it's about you. And your post proved my point. thank you bill, you will always see me bill lolol wherever you go. So you might start thinking kindly of me, as i do of you, and have the utmost respect for your talent and see into your art, your personality, open up. you should understand after 20 years with artists, i am a like artist. whitehorserides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 > When I finished reading it there arose the question are those metally > ill kids or adults not too genuine and that their illness is the > expression of the only possible genuineness in their situation ? You have a good question, Werner, and you seem to be getting at an irony that I was noticing as I wrote that piece: I seem to be saying that there is a greater honesty that comes forth with the disturbed children and mentally ill adults than with so-called " normal " people. Is that true, and if so why is that? What comes to me as I ask that is that they are more " in need " than " normal people " , and they are more alone. And they have had very little in the way of being treated with dignity and respect in their lives. So if someone comes along and *does* treat them with dignity and respect they really respond; partly because they are so alone and so in need of being validated as a human being, but also because of the contrast with how they are used to being treated. " Normal " people do respond to the same kind of heart-centered authenticness, in my experience. But their defenses are more intact, and they don't have the same degree of need, so they tend to keep more of a distance, a greater reserve, at least in general. Putting it in terms of my point of view... with the clients that I am able to connect will with there is a greater sense of intimacy on some level, a richer sense of satisfaction in really connecting. And on reflection I realize that I also probably am more intent on being connecting and present with these " downtrodden " ones, because I see their great need. > Is there a borderline between being genuine and mentally ill ? I didn't mean to suggest that the clients I work with are in general especially genuine. Many of them have spent much of their lives in the " system " and are highly skilled in the art of manipulation. Many of the adults I work with are quite genuine, though. > Maybe what you identify as your genuineness which opens long ago > spilt and locked potentials in these people is soemthing totally > different ? It could be your own potentiality which is wide open > without fear, ready to receive whatever comes and to fathom life with > a kind of 6th sense prepared for it ? Well yes, that is the case. But there are many people who are drawn into this kind of work who have a very genuine quality of personal authenticity. Some are more skilled and go deeper than others. But one thing I learned when working with the kids was that there were staff members who didn't operate in ways that I always thought proper (such as raising their voices, badgering the kids, etc.), yet in the end were still good for the kids because they were authentically themselves and the kids knew who they were, knew what they were dealing with. You might say that they could relate to the kids in a " grounded " way, even if their skills had some rough edges. But as for myself, it was/is a fabulous opportunity to put my heart-centered form of spirituality into practice. I don't have to think. I can just *be*. And it is so simple. When I am deeply heart-centered in my stance in the world, all the complexities dissolve. There is nothing to know, really. Because everyone has a heart. And as I stand in the world, clear and simple, as if a luminous flame of gentleness, it seems as if I can see the hearts of others around me so clearly, and it seems that regardless of what their minds may be thinking, their hearts *do sense* that heartful presence and do respond, each in their own way, often very subtly, but always, it seems, with a very rare and wonderful magic. Bill > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> wrote: > > > > On another list someone writing about > > their experiences working in a health > > and yoga center wrote: > > > > " ...and the process exposed the sordid > > underbelly of their humanity... All > > those rough edges get exposed and you > > can't help but bump up against them. > > In the end I became very grateful for > > them, and my experience there. " > > > > It is interesting how working in the > > " spiritual trenches " as it were can bring > > forth some of the deepest forms of spiritual > > growth. > > > > I have had/am having similar experiences in > > my work with first emotionally disturbed > > children and teenagers, and now with > > mentally ill adults. > > > > The key in what the person wrote, as I see > > it, is the part about the exposed > > underbelly of humanity. That is what at > > first may seem ugly, but in the end is > > (hopefully) seen to be the great beauty. > > It is really that one is seeing the truth, > > as the challenges are too deep for the > > dainty formalities of society, for all the > > " cover-ups " . > > > > In this kind of work I have found that > > simply " being in my heart " is the key. I > > don't mean anything particularly mystical > > by that. I mean simply being centered in a > > very authentic way. The emotionally > > disturbed and the mentally ill seem to have > > a very keen sense of whether one is being > > authentic with them. > > > > And because I am able to *genuinely* like > > them, to appreciate the person hidden > > inside (even if the outer behavior is not > > entirely pleasant), again and again I find > > them really opening to me, sometimes with > > words, sometimes with just a look or a > > smile. > > > > I've been thinking about this recently, and > > it does seem to me that what people want > > the most is to be treated with genuine > > dignity and respect. Many of the people I > > work with haven't had much of that. But > > when they *do* receive it, it is amazing > > the deep ways they will respond. It is as > > if they just need someone to believe in > > them to help them get back to believing in > > themselves. > > > > When I speak of " being in my heart " , what I > > am really talking about is being myself in > > a true, authentic way. And one way I see > > that in relation to the clients I work with > > is that I am being like a tuning fork. If I > > set up a true reference vibration, that > > helps them get back to finding that same > > true vibration in themselves. It's there, > > but they may have lost track of it along > > the way. > > > > And that, I think, is a very pragmatic way > > of looking at the often so very lofty > > notion of " truth " . It is easy to think of > > truth/Truth as some transcendental > > absolute. But being oneself in a simple, > > heartful, authentic way, and treating all > > others *from there* with deep respect and > > dignity... a very *human* notion of truth > > as it were, perhaps that is all we really > > need. > > > > > > Bill > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2005 Report Share Posted December 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illieusion@h...> wrote: > Well i couldn't resist, enjoy. whitehorserides > > When I finished reading it there arose the question are those > metally > > ill kids or adults not too genuine and that their illness is the > > expression of the only possible genuineness in their situation ? > > You have a good question, Werner, and you seem to be getting > at an irony that I was noticing as I wrote that piece: > > I seem to be saying that there is a greater honesty > that comes forth with the disturbed children and > mentally ill adults than with so-called " normal " people. > Is that true, and if so why is that? ________This is due to a not having a responsibilities, there is a certain innocense in the child as that same is in the spiritually unbalanced. > > What comes to me as I ask that is that they are more " in > need " than " normal people " , and they are more alone. __________That's also superficial, most 'normal people' have developed minds and senses and there needs increase with their wants. That's why son David song, " the Lord is my shepherd, i shall not want..... " is good to ponder. And they > have had very little in the way of being treated with dignity > and respect in their lives. So if someone comes along and > *does* treat them with dignity and respect they really > respond; ___________These words they almost don't understand it's showing you genuinely care, caring is key. > partly because they are so alone and so in need of > being validated as a human being, here again is a stretch many have not comprehended the real human being being b/c the real is eternal soul and that's out of reach, but they do understand feelings. >but also because of the > contrast with how they are used to being treated. ________and precisely b/c those who handle them often do so without deepfelt, genuine feelings. This is truely the esssese of " Normal people " learning what it is that God is __PURE AND PERFECT LOVE, IE FEELINGS " > > " Normal " people do respond to the same kind of heart-centered > authenticness, in my experience. But their defenses are more > intact, and they don't have the same degree of need, so they > tend to keep more of a distance, a greater reserve, at least > in general. Putting it in terms of my point of view... with the > clients that I am able to connect will with there is a greater > sense of intimacy on some level, a richer sense of satisfaction > in really connecting. And on reflection I realize that I also > probably am more intent on being connecting and present with > these " downtrodden " ones, because I see their great need. __________Now you know how i feel just trying to get through to 'normal'. This is why the Holy Spirit, says to " become childlike, there is a need to put down defenses and open the heart and be free " and these will enter the kingdom of God. > > > Is there a borderline between being genuine and mentally ill ? ________depends how far gone they are. Even genuine amongst 'normal' is covered over by all the defenses, coverings, just see how hard it is to get throught to you guys, your walls are high, let me tell ya. > I didn't mean to suggest that the clients I work with are in > general especially genuine. Many of them have spent much of > their lives in the " system " and are highly skilled in the > art of manipulation. Many of the adults I work with are quite > genuine, though. __________can't comment unless there's more info. > > > Maybe what you identify as your genuineness which opens long ago > > spilt and locked potentials in these people is soemthing totally > > different ? It could be your own potentiality which is wide open > > without fear, ready to receive whatever comes and to fathom life > with > > a kind of 6th sense prepared for it ? ______6th sense is like starting to bring in psychiatry or psychoanalysis > > Well yes, that is the case. But there are many people who are > drawn into this kind of work who have a very genuine quality of > personal authenticity. Some are more skilled and go deeper than > others. ________yes, there are comparisons that can be made across all social workers at many levels, school teaching , day care and so on and so forth. but typically the draw or stick to self reward is seeing the others advance in themselves and the teacher or caretaker experiences a spirit self reward besides a pay check. This is also the essense of one in pure consciousness, the son of God is only interested in seeing others advance he is the ultimate caretaker for God and he iw rewarded ____by God__from within and pleasures from without by seeing the others come to Him in Truth. >But one thing I learned when working with the kids was > that there were staff members who didn't operate in ways that I > always thought proper (such as raising their voices, badgering > the kids, etc.), yet in the end were still good for the kids > because they were authentically themselves and the kids knew who > they were, knew what they were dealing with. You might say that > they could relate to the kids in a " grounded " way, even if their > skills had some rough edges. ________This too, is the expertise of good son that is expert at recognizing the students and there conditions as written, Hebrews 4:12 'the two edged sword' is from the Lord, is in the heart and mouth of the son who recognizes the depths of the disease and the intent of the the spirits within, their conditions and can apply sometimes heavy words at other times can be, as soft as a rose. It depends on the walls that are up, just as right now i'm opening the understandiing of God's Word b/c you have shown to have understood through this world by personal experience, and even though you are avoiding me whether or not purposefully, well ok purposefully, you are getting the mercy of God's Word depite all. > > But as for myself, it was/is a fabulous opportunity to put my > heart-centered form of spirituality into practice. I don't have > to think. I can just *be*. And it is so simple. When I am deeply > heart-centered in my stance in the world, all the complexities > dissolve. There is nothing to know, really. Because everyone > has a heart. ___ " Is " heart, not has, you don't have a soul, you are soul. THINK on this a little longer bill. >And as I stand in the world, clear and simple, > as if a luminous flame of gentleness, it seems as if I can > see the hearts of others around me so clearly, and it seems that > regardless of what their minds may be thinking, their hearts > *do sense* that heartful presence and do respond, each in their > own way, often very subtly, but always, it seems, with a very > rare and wonderful magic. __________So bill, it takes dealing with the spiritually unbalanced to recognize this. The similar realizations i had as a teenager allowed me to always stay in my Fathers love and not to loose myself in any loves, put forth before me which implies before Him, therefore maturing in balance and remaining fixed on Him. Thou shalt not put any gods, no loves, inplace of Me. Love Me First. The wonderful magic is coming from somewhere, that is God within, and that Self is not to be misstaken for the self, you. Or you will have commited the act of 'spiritual suicide' thinking, that it's by your ability that 'you' are so wonderful and forget to respect the Father, REMEMBER , HONOUR YOUR FATHER, N0 5 who is also without and within everyone else. The danger is in that state you are 'alone' in your world thinking you have attained. That is the impersonalist experience or mayavadi philosopher. Be careful, you are entering the room of one who knows the heart, and intents of the spirits. Simply b/c you have avoided all my personal emails as well as being addressed here, proves your avoidance is due to very deep insecurities, and they are all rooted in envy, which is at the deepest depths of the heart, and is like the weeds that are in the garden, finely disguised by nevertheless recieving water as all the other plants of illumination, gentleness, caring, kindness, and so on. i'm trying to be gentle here. If you think you're clear and simple, luminous state is due to your own doing, then you will again have to experience shortcomings b/c there are some weeds in that garden of illumination yet to be pulled. But no doubt you are moving in the right direction, and this is good. But this was a good exercise, almost like satsang. This is all i live for, bill, nothing more, i gave up the million dollar art business to do the loving service God. Well,....to be truthful, He told me in a dream 'it was time' 1998. > > > Bill > > > Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <plexus@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > On another list someone writing about > > > their experiences working in a health > > > and yoga center wrote: > > > > > > " ...and the process exposed the sordid > > > underbelly of their humanity... All > > > those rough edges get exposed and you > > > can't help but bump up against them. > > > In the end I became very grateful for > > > them, and my experience there. " > > > > > > It is interesting how working in the > > > " spiritual trenches " as it were can bring > > > forth some of the deepest forms of spiritual > > > growth. > > > > > > I have had/am having similar experiences in > > > my work with first emotionally disturbed > > > children and teenagers, and now with > > > mentally ill adults. > > > > > > The key in what the person wrote, as I see > > > it, is the part about the exposed > > > underbelly of humanity. That is what at > > > first may seem ugly, but in the end is > > > (hopefully) seen to be the great beauty. > > > It is really that one is seeing the truth, > > > as the challenges are too deep for the > > > dainty formalities of society, for all the > > > " cover-ups " . > > > > > > In this kind of work I have found that > > > simply " being in my heart " is the key. I > > > don't mean anything particularly mystical > > > by that. I mean simply being centered in a > > > very authentic way. The emotionally > > > disturbed and the mentally ill seem to have > > > a very keen sense of whether one is being > > > authentic with them. > > > > > > And because I am able to *genuinely* like > > > them, to appreciate the person hidden > > > inside (even if the outer behavior is not > > > entirely pleasant), again and again I find > > > them really opening to me, sometimes with > > > words, sometimes with just a look or a > > > smile. > > > > > > I've been thinking about this recently, and > > > it does seem to me that what people want > > > the most is to be treated with genuine > > > dignity and respect. Many of the people I > > > work with haven't had much of that. But > > > when they *do* receive it, it is amazing > > > the deep ways they will respond. It is as > > > if they just need someone to believe in > > > them to help them get back to believing in > > > themselves. > > > > > > When I speak of " being in my heart " , what I > > > am really talking about is being myself in > > > a true, authentic way. And one way I see > > > that in relation to the clients I work with > > > is that I am being like a tuning fork. If I > > > set up a true reference vibration, that > > > helps them get back to finding that same > > > true vibration in themselves. It's there, > > > but they may have lost track of it along > > > the way. > > > > > > And that, I think, is a very pragmatic way > > > of looking at the often so very lofty > > > notion of " truth " . It is easy to think of > > > truth/Truth as some transcendental > > > absolute. But being oneself in a simple, > > > heartful, authentic way, and treating all > > > others *from there* with deep respect and > > > dignity... a very *human* notion of truth > > > as it were, perhaps that is all we really > > > need. > > > > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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