Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. Once you > > understand > > > > > that > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all ignorance, you are > > on your > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have the knowledge; > > this > > > > > is > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no knowledge > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no attributes. It cannot > > be > > > > > imagined > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the stone beside me. > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, or the dog, > > think > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no attributes? > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be final. A > > sage > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, but an answer > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same question again > > after a > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different answer! > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the sum of 2 + > > 2? " , > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do you feel " , > > then > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, although most people > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they really felt like > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > al. > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with an answer. > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives somewhere. If > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for Niz since > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that appear > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up Niz > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c his teachings > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. Interesting, but funny > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that from me from > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, but i have > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell me this > > mirror thing including waaba. > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking at the 'not > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in the 60's and > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from this planet and > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, but i guess > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not that mirror > > ______LOLOL. > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " I am This " . > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so called > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, including > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love woman. > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal internet stuff > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you can't be > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are filled with empty > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > your loving whitehorse > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey dovey thing. > > The true Self Within. > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I guess one > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the intellect. Then the > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > al. > > al. this becomes an interesting topic for me. first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with impersonalists on this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping over, 1 & 2 for lack of better expression. First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the Soul or God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see yourself as God. This is not good. For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the person is a lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that God was behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the door like alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the thoughts like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, their emotions of love are towards you, that does not need intelligence, it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or purifiying the heart does not require intelligence. First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can help you become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him which is very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and opened it there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating loving relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, negate type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental gymnastics, trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words behind the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray from it with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like Oshe and alike are strains of the same. Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions going on in India of Mayavadi philosophy. There has been posted an expression of collapsing the intellect. That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in removing all the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the mind. But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. One must eat, sleep and do things. 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do your actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your objective " then all will fall into place. Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, personal goal and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in time turns to pure love. Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes obligated to reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or giving or philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to leave, because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much love you show or give her, she's going. But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by genuine loving service. Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? Through manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy Prophets were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions and in dreams and visions through the Spirit. When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways special to each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' first with faith. However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this expression. They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary difference. This will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics especially without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to satisfy some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against the door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their room. Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not going anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a lock on the inside without a key to get out. Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around doesn't change anything just offers another look at the same ole stuff. God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, filled with unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances that allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the heart of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps in to share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind of " i love you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are the special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal intimacy one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only love and it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That is True Love. ok enough here, i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into the intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns but more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving son/daughter. your friend in the Holy Spirit whitehorserides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 12, 2005 Report Share Posted December 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > ok enough here, > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into the > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. Agent Smith: You hear that Frank?... That is the sound of inevitability. Morpheus: What are you waiting for Frank? You're faster than this. Don't think you are, know you are. Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the Whitehorse. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. Frank: What truth? Spoon boy: There is no Whitehorse. Frank: There is no Whitehorse? Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the Whitehorse that bends, it is only yourself. Frank: What is happening to me? The Father: You are the One, Frank. You see, you may have spent the last few years looking for me, but I have spent my entire life looking for you. ps. yes Frank, the Father (and plenty of users on nonduality groups) wants you do this, please start your group as fast as you can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@n...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > ok enough here, > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into the > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > Agent Smith: You hear that Frank?... That is the sound of > inevitability. > > Morpheus: What are you waiting for Frank? You're faster than this. > Don't think you are, know you are. > > Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the Whitehorse. That's impossible. > Instead... only try to realize the truth. > > Frank: What truth? > > Spoon boy: There is no Whitehorse. > > Frank: There is no Whitehorse? > > Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the Whitehorse that > bends, it is only yourself. > > Frank: What is happening to me? > > The Father: You are the One, Frank. You see, you may have spent the > last few years looking for me, but I have spent my entire life > looking for you. > > ps. yes Frank, the Father (and plenty of users on nonduality groups) > wants you do this, please start your group as fast as you can > Hur , i see you have had time to break from your pastime and visit, lol Must be hard! surrounded by all _____________-that beauty. on a lighter note, i don't repeat movies. and though i did see the Matrix many years ago it is in the distant past right now as on ot those many movies i saw at that millenium end, whilst hollywood was up to their ears using all their controversial tactics of making truth sound unreal and the unreal as truth. though i was able to get your drift here, peace, my hur i love you despite yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. Once you > > > understand > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all ignorance, you > are > > > on your > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have the > knowledge; > > > this > > > > > > is > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no knowledge > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no attributes. It > cannot > > > be > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the stone > beside me. > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, or the > dog, > > > think > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no attributes? > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be final. > A > > > sage > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, but an > answer > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same question again > > > after a > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different answer! > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the sum of 2 > + > > > 2? " , > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do you > feel " , > > > then > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, although most > people > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they really felt > like > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with an > answer. > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > somewhere. If > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for Niz since > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that appear > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up Niz > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c his > teachings > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. Interesting, but > funny > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that from me > from > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, but i > have > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell me this > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking at > the 'not > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in the 60's > and > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from this planet > and > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, but i > guess > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not that > mirror > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " I am > This " . > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so called > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, > including > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal internet stuff > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you can't be > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are filled with > empty > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey dovey thing. > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I guess one > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the intellect. Then > the > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > al. > > > > al. > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with impersonalists on > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping over, 1 & 2 > for lack of better expression. > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the Soul or > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see > yourself as God. This is not good. > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the person is a > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that God was > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the door like > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the thoughts > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, their > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need intelligence, > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or purifiying the > heart does not require intelligence. > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can help you > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him which is > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and opened it > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating loving > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, negate > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental gymnastics, > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words behind > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray from it > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like Oshe and > alike are strains of the same. > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions going on > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the intellect. > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in removing all > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the mind. > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. One > must eat, sleep and do things. > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do your > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your objective " > then all will fall into place. > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, personal goal > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in time > turns to pure love. > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes obligated to > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or giving or > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to leave, > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much love you > show or give her, she's going. > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by genuine loving > service. > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? Through > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy Prophets > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions and in > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways special to > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' first > with faith. > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this expression. > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary difference. This > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics especially > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to satisfy > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against the > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their room. > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not going > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a lock on the > inside without a key to get out. > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around doesn't > change anything just offers another look at the same ole stuff. > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, filled with > unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances that > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the heart > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps in to > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind of " i love > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are the > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal intimacy > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only love and > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That is True > Love. > > ok enough here, > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into the > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns but > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving son/daughter. > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > whitehorserides > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's room with furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the intellect, and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to speak. We need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we can see and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, perspective. You call this external power God. I call it life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we think of evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that IT ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but it is clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself up by its own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The intellect is not responsible for holding every atom in the universe together. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S <pedsie4@e...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. Once you > > > > understand > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all ignorance, you > > are > > > > on your > > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have the > > knowledge; > > > > this > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no knowledge > > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no attributes. It > > cannot > > > > be > > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the stone > > beside me. > > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, or the > > dog, > > > > think > > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no attributes? > > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be final. > > A > > > > sage > > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, but an > > answer > > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same question again > > > > after a > > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different answer! > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the sum of 2 > > + > > > > 2? " , > > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do you > > feel " , > > > > then > > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, although most > > people > > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they really felt > > like > > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with an > > answer. > > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > > somewhere. If > > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for Niz since > > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that appear > > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up Niz > > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c his > > teachings > > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. Interesting, but > > funny > > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that from me > > from > > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, but i > > have > > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell me this > > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking at > > the 'not > > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in the 60's > > and > > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from this planet > > and > > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, but i > > guess > > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not that > > mirror > > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " I am > > This " . > > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so called > > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, > > including > > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal internet stuff > > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you can't be > > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are filled with > > empty > > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey dovey thing. > > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I guess one > > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the intellect. Then > > the > > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > al. > > > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with impersonalists on > > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. > > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping over, 1 & 2 > > for lack of better expression. > > > > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the Soul or > > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see > > yourself as God. This is not good. > > > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the person is a > > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that God was > > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the door like > > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the thoughts > > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, their > > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need intelligence, > > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or purifiying the > > heart does not require intelligence. > > > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can help you > > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him which is > > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and opened it > > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating loving > > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, negate > > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental gymnastics, > > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words behind > > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray from it > > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like Oshe and > > alike are strains of the same. > > > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions going on > > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the intellect. > > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in removing all > > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the mind. > > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. One > > must eat, sleep and do things. > > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do your > > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your objective " > > then all will fall into place. > > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, personal goal > > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in time > > turns to pure love. > > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes obligated to > > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or giving or > > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to leave, > > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much love you > > show or give her, she's going. > > > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by genuine loving > > service. > > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? Through > > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy Prophets > > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions and in > > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your > > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways special to > > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' first > > with faith. > > > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this expression. > > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary difference. This > > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics especially > > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to satisfy > > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against the > > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their room. > > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not going > > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a lock on the > > inside without a key to get out. > > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around doesn't > > change anything just offers another look at the same ole stuff. > > > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, filled with > > unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances that > > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the heart > > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps in to > > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind of " i love > > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are the > > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal intimacy > > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only love and > > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That is True > > Love. > > > > ok enough here, > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into the > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns but > > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving son/daughter. > > > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > > whitehorserides > > > > > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's room with > furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the intellect, > and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to speak. We > need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we can see > and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, > perspective. You call this external power God. I call it > life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we think of > evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that IT > ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but it is > clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself up by its > own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The intellect is > not responsible for holding every atom in the universe together. > > al. .....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " disappear...... it happen that whole body sense disappear......... this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a working intellect....by the dream of being " this or that " ......by the dream to be this body mind intellect...... the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of sleep....and deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited by a body mind intellect........ and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > ....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " > disappear...... > it happen that whole body sense disappear......... > > this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a > working intellect....by the dream of being " this or that " ......by the > dream to be this body mind intellect...... > > the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... > just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... > > one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of sleep....and > deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited by a > body mind intellect........ > > and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many > hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside > the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage > > Marc > Hi Marc, I imagine that the realized person has a profound sense of peace and freedom. The intellect is really a very narrow and confined space. It will be interesting to see if I can escape the crowded room of the thinking mind. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > <pedsie4@e...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. Once > you > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all ignorance, > you > > > are > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have the > > > knowledge; > > > > > this > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no > knowledge > > > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no attributes. > It > > > cannot > > > > > be > > > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the stone > > > beside me. > > > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, or > the > > > dog, > > > > > think > > > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no attributes? > > > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be > final. > > > A > > > > > sage > > > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, but > an > > > answer > > > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same question > again > > > > > after a > > > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different > answer! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the sum > of 2 > > > + > > > > > 2? " , > > > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do you > > > feel " , > > > > > then > > > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, although > most > > > people > > > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they really > felt > > > like > > > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with an > > > answer. > > > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > > > somewhere. If > > > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for Niz > since > > > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that > appear > > > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up Niz > > > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c his > > > teachings > > > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. Interesting, > but > > > funny > > > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that from > me > > > from > > > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, but > i > > > have > > > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell me > this > > > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking at > > > the 'not > > > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in the > 60's > > > and > > > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from this > planet > > > and > > > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, but > i > > > guess > > > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not that > > > mirror > > > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " I > am > > > This " . > > > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so > called > > > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, > > > including > > > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love > woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal internet > stuff > > > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you can't be > > > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are filled > with > > > empty > > > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey dovey > thing. > > > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I guess > one > > > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the intellect. > Then > > > the > > > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > > > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with impersonalists > on > > > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. > > > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping over, 1 > & 2 > > > for lack of better expression. > > > > > > > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the Soul > or > > > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see > > > yourself as God. This is not good. > > > > > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the person > is a > > > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that God > was > > > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the door > like > > > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the > thoughts > > > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > > > > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, their > > > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need > intelligence, > > > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or purifiying > the > > > heart does not require intelligence. > > > > > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can help > you > > > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him > which is > > > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and opened > it > > > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating > loving > > > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, > negate > > > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental gymnastics, > > > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words > behind > > > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray from > it > > > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like Oshe > and > > > alike are strains of the same. > > > > > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions going > on > > > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the intellect. > > > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in removing > all > > > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the mind. > > > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. One > > > must eat, sleep and do things. > > > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do your > > > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your > objective " > > > then all will fall into place. > > > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, personal > goal > > > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in > time > > > turns to pure love. > > > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes obligated to > > > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or giving > or > > > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to > leave, > > > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much love > you > > > show or give her, she's going. > > > > > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by genuine > loving > > > service. > > > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? Through > > > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy > Prophets > > > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions and in > > > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > > > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your > > > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways > special to > > > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' > first > > > with faith. > > > > > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this > expression. > > > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary difference. > This > > > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics especially > > > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to > satisfy > > > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against the > > > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their room. > > > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not going > > > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a lock on > the > > > inside without a key to get out. > > > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around > doesn't > > > change anything just offers another look at the same ole stuff. > > > > > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, filled > with > > > unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances > that > > > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the > heart > > > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps in > to > > > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind of " i > love > > > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are the > > > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal > intimacy > > > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only love > and > > > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That is > True > > > Love. > > > > > > ok enough here, > > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into > the > > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > > > > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns > but > > > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving son/daughter. > > > > > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > > > whitehorserides > > > > > > > > > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's room with > > furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the > intellect, > > and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to speak. We > > need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we can see > > and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, > > perspective. You call this external power God. I call it > > life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we think of > > evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that IT > > ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but it is > > clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself up by > its > > own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The intellect is > > not responsible for holding every atom in the universe together. > > > > al. > > ....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " > disappear...... > it happen that whole body sense disappear......... > > this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a > working intellect....by the dream of being " this or that " ......by the > dream to be this body mind intellect...... > > the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... > just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... > > one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of sleep....and > deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited by a > body mind intellect........ > > and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many > hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside > the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage > > Marc > your preaching to the choir marc, that's elementary my dear watson. you're just trying to move around furniture, and like in a dream that now it's allright b/c you have a new personal view to look at. Can you hear that? Were talking about raising the level of Love, marc, not move around thoughts. where is love coming from and how to live in it? Al,. i don't call God 'external power', though He is that too, but All Power, and alsofrom within. That's why it's repeated to realize first God within then there is peace. God is manifesting from within at the deepest sense of the self. On another post the other day, i gave an expression that it takes going deep into the self reflection to the root. There you find God saying " aaahh you found Me, it's been a journey hasn't it? " From there is the " relationship " kindled " in love " . You don't go to the root and say " oh there's love, or there's God, i'm now the God, or i'm the manifestation of love " If you do that, then things start revolving around you, instead of you being in the love and feeling it from within, you stand outside of love looking at it. ___-another analogy is 'talking at someone' and not 'to or with' them. this internet chat is like 'at them', that's why these impersonalists including christains as the same but different, flourish in these forums. This is actually robotic communication or like alien nations meeting grounds and interacting, with the mind and intellect. It lacks dimension and color and 3d hence the composition is weak, it's not a complete painting. Ever been to an art gallery, sit and stare at the painting and you can almost get interaction, whereas if you look at a picture of it on the internet,it doesn't really speak to you because you can't feel the brush strokes nor see the movement of the pallet or colors in a harmony. That compares to this forum. It's not interactive, just active without seeing the love, or lover behind it. just a blank stare into an imaginary world, _____________impersonalism, Niz style. That's why my words have very little effect b/c everyone is just blocking. and i can't speak 'to them', just 'at them' and nothing goes through. But if you were with me in public, much more goes through b/c you can hear the sound of my voice, see my eyes, feel my spirit as i can yours. Therefore it's interactive, intercourse and there is more truth, trust and faith developed from personal intimatacy than just plain intellectualism, played out in this forum. God is personal like that, in the present. As it is said " developed the eyesalve of love in your eyes, and see God " But, then it also says open the doors anda i will come and supp with you. God is a loving, intimate pfriend, pal, loved one. He's not a dream to move in and out of in thought. He's as Alive and comes alive in your spirit when accecpted in your heart. Therefore clean house throw the old out and make room cause He's coming to town and He knows if you've been bad or good b/c He's omnipresent, by His own Spiritual manifested energies. Something that is dificult for the impersonalist to understand b/c they think all energy is the same, or one. but they like that b/c it gives them room to justify their personal whims, and say it's all love or it's all one. stay tuned whitehorserides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > <pedsie4@e...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. Once > > you > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all ignorance, > > you > > > > are > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have the > > > > knowledge; > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no attributes. > > It > > > > cannot > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the stone > > > > beside me. > > > > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, or > > the > > > > dog, > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no > attributes? > > > > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be > > final. > > > > A > > > > > > sage > > > > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, > but > > an > > > > answer > > > > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same question > > again > > > > > > after a > > > > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different > > answer! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the > sum > > of 2 > > > > + > > > > > > 2? " , > > > > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do > you > > > > feel " , > > > > > > then > > > > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, although > > most > > > > people > > > > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they really > > felt > > > > like > > > > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with > an > > > > answer. > > > > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > > > > somewhere. If > > > > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for Niz > > since > > > > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that > > appear > > > > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up > Niz > > > > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c his > > > > teachings > > > > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. Interesting, > > but > > > > funny > > > > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that > from > > me > > > > from > > > > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, > but > > i > > > > have > > > > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell me > > this > > > > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking at > > > > the 'not > > > > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in the > > 60's > > > > and > > > > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from this > > planet > > > > and > > > > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, > but > > i > > > > guess > > > > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not > that > > > > mirror > > > > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " I > > am > > > > This " . > > > > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so > > called > > > > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, > > > > including > > > > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love > > woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal internet > > stuff > > > > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you can't > be > > > > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are filled > > with > > > > empty > > > > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey dovey > > thing. > > > > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I > guess > > one > > > > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the intellect. > > Then > > > > the > > > > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > > > > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with impersonalists > > on > > > > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. > > > > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping over, > 1 > > & 2 > > > > for lack of better expression. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the > Soul > > or > > > > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see > > > > yourself as God. This is not good. > > > > > > > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the > person > > is a > > > > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that God > > was > > > > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the door > > like > > > > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the > > thoughts > > > > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > > > > > > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, > their > > > > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need > > intelligence, > > > > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or > purifiying > > the > > > > heart does not require intelligence. > > > > > > > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can > help > > you > > > > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him > > which is > > > > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and > opened > > it > > > > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating > > loving > > > > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, > > negate > > > > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental > gymnastics, > > > > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words > > behind > > > > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray > from > > it > > > > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like > Oshe > > and > > > > alike are strains of the same. > > > > > > > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions > going > > on > > > > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the intellect. > > > > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in > removing > > all > > > > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the mind. > > > > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. > One > > > > must eat, sleep and do things. > > > > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do your > > > > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your > > objective " > > > > then all will fall into place. > > > > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, personal > > goal > > > > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in > > time > > > > turns to pure love. > > > > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes obligated > to > > > > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or giving > > or > > > > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to > > leave, > > > > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much love > > you > > > > show or give her, she's going. > > > > > > > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by genuine > > loving > > > > service. > > > > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? Through > > > > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy > > Prophets > > > > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions and > in > > > > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > > > > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your > > > > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways > > special to > > > > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' > > first > > > > with faith. > > > > > > > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this > > expression. > > > > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary > difference. > > This > > > > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics > especially > > > > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to > > satisfy > > > > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against > the > > > > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their room. > > > > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not > going > > > > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a lock > on > > the > > > > inside without a key to get out. > > > > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around > > doesn't > > > > change anything just offers another look at the same ole stuff. > > > > > > > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, filled > > with > > > > unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances > > that > > > > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the > > heart > > > > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps in > > to > > > > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind > of " i > > love > > > > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are the > > > > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal > > intimacy > > > > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only love > > and > > > > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That is > > True > > > > Love. > > > > > > > > ok enough here, > > > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get into > > the > > > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > > > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > > > > > > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns > > but > > > > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving son/daughter. > > > > > > > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > > > > whitehorserides > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's room > with > > > furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the > > intellect, > > > and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to speak. We > > > need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we can > see > > > and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, > > > perspective. You call this external power God. I call it > > > life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we think > of > > > evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that IT > > > ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but it is > > > clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself up > by > > its > > > own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The intellect > is > > > not responsible for holding every atom in the universe together. > > > > > > al. > > > > ....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " > > disappear...... > > it happen that whole body sense disappear......... > > > > this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a > > working intellect....by the dream of being " this or that " ......by > the > > dream to be this body mind intellect...... > > > > the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... > > just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... > > > > one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of > sleep....and > > deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited by > a > > body mind intellect........ > > > > and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many > > hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside > > the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage > > > > Marc > > > your preaching to the choir marc, that's elementary my dear watson. > you're just trying to move around furniture, and like in a dream that > now it's allright b/c you have a new personal view to look at. > Can you hear that? > Were talking about raising the level of Love, marc, not move around > thoughts. where is love coming from and how to live in it? > " where is love coming from and how to live in it? " .... love is there......it is not coming " from somewhere " .... love is rising in the whole body, mind and intellect.....just like the sun (appear to) rise in the morning....... means, love is there......at every moment......one only feel It.......when the " clouds " are away.......when body,mind,intellect are in harmony with Self..... .....or if you want....WH.....when one leave the cage (you can't feel (sense) the sunshine behind the clouds?.....or during night.....feel the sunshine.....even in the darkness of night) everybody live in this love.......with more or less consciousness about......more or less consciousness about the connection between everyone.....more or less consciousness about the unity of all....... emotions of all kind are the effect of this love...... to give this emotions of all kind to " God " ........would be a nice and peaceful way of living....with It ....means....to just let energy of love.....flow through life..... thats all there is no other choice......even if one " think " there is......maybe by some clouds in the mind..... 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Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > > <pedsie4@e...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. > Once > > > you > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all > ignorance, > > > you > > > > > are > > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have > the > > > > > knowledge; > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no > attributes. > > > It > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the > stone > > > > > beside me. > > > > > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me think, > or > > > the > > > > > dog, > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no > > attributes? > > > > > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to be > > > final. > > > > > A > > > > > > > sage > > > > > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final answer, > > but > > > an > > > > > answer > > > > > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same > question > > > again > > > > > > > after a > > > > > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely different > > > answer! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is the > > sum > > > of 2 > > > > > + > > > > > > > 2? " , > > > > > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how do > > you > > > > > feel " , > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, > although > > > most > > > > > people > > > > > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they > really > > > felt > > > > > like > > > > > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up with > > an > > > > > answer. > > > > > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > > > > > somewhere. If > > > > > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for > Niz > > > since > > > > > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones that > > > appear > > > > > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken up > > Niz > > > > > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c > his > > > > > teachings > > > > > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. > Interesting, > > > but > > > > > funny > > > > > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard that > > from > > > me > > > > > from > > > > > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the mirror, > > but > > > i > > > > > have > > > > > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell > me > > > this > > > > > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > > > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still looking > at > > > > > the 'not > > > > > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in > the > > > 60's > > > > > and > > > > > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from > this > > > planet > > > > > and > > > > > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all beedees, > > but > > > i > > > > > guess > > > > > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the not > > that > > > > > mirror > > > > > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, to " > I > > > am > > > > > This " . > > > > > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so > > > called > > > > > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body stuff, > > > > > including > > > > > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. love > > > woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal > internet > > > stuff > > > > > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you > can't > > be > > > > > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are > filled > > > with > > > > > empty > > > > > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > > > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > > > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey > dovey > > > thing. > > > > > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I > > guess > > > one > > > > > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the > intellect. > > > Then > > > > > the > > > > > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > > > > > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with > impersonalists > > > on > > > > > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective al. > > > > > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping > over, > > 1 > > > & 2 > > > > > for lack of better expression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' the > > Soul > > > or > > > > > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to see > > > > > yourself as God. This is not good. > > > > > > > > > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the > > person > > > is a > > > > > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that > God > > > was > > > > > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the > door > > > like > > > > > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the > > > thoughts > > > > > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > > > > > > > > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, > > their > > > > > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need > > > intelligence, > > > > > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or > > purifiying > > > the > > > > > heart does not require intelligence. > > > > > > > > > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can > > help > > > you > > > > > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with Him > > > which is > > > > > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and > > opened > > > it > > > > > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating > > > loving > > > > > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, > > > negate > > > > > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental > > gymnastics, > > > > > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words > > > behind > > > > > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray > > from > > > it > > > > > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like > > Oshe > > > and > > > > > alike are strains of the same. > > > > > > > > > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions > > going > > > on > > > > > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the > intellect. > > > > > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in > > removing > > > all > > > > > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the > mind. > > > > > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being active. > > One > > > > > must eat, sleep and do things. > > > > > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do > your > > > > > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your > > > objective " > > > > > then all will fall into place. > > > > > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, > personal > > > goal > > > > > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action in > > > time > > > > > turns to pure love. > > > > > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes > obligated > > to > > > > > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or > giving > > > or > > > > > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined to > > > leave, > > > > > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much > love > > > you > > > > > show or give her, she's going. > > > > > > > > > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by > genuine > > > loving > > > > > service. > > > > > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? > Through > > > > > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy > > > Prophets > > > > > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions > and > > in > > > > > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > > > > > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just your > > > > > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways > > > special to > > > > > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the door' > > > first > > > > > with faith. > > > > > > > > > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this > > > expression. > > > > > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary > > difference. > > > This > > > > > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics > > especially > > > > > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve to > > > satisfy > > > > > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture against > > the > > > > > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their > room. > > > > > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not > > going > > > > > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a > lock > > on > > > the > > > > > inside without a key to get out. > > > > > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around > > > doesn't > > > > > change anything just offers another look at the same ole > stuff. > > > > > > > > > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, > filled > > > with > > > > > unique situations and conditions that open new circumstances > > > that > > > > > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is the > > > heart > > > > > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He steps > in > > > to > > > > > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind > > of " i > > > love > > > > > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are > the > > > > > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal > > > intimacy > > > > > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only > love > > > and > > > > > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That > is > > > True > > > > > Love. > > > > > > > > > > ok enough here, > > > > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get > into > > > the > > > > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > > > > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > > > > > > > > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your concerns > > > but > > > > > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving > son/daughter. > > > > > > > > > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > > > > > whitehorserides > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's room > > with > > > > furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the > > > intellect, > > > > and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to speak. > We > > > > need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we can > > see > > > > and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, > > > > perspective. You call this external power God. I call it > > > > life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we > think > > of > > > > evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that IT > > > > ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but it > is > > > > clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself up > > by > > > its > > > > own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The > intellect > > is > > > > not responsible for holding every atom in the universe together. > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > ....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " > > > disappear...... > > > it happen that whole body sense disappear......... > > > > > > this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a > > > working intellect....by the dream of being " this or that " ......by > > the > > > dream to be this body mind intellect...... > > > > > > the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... > > > just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... > > > > > > one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of > > sleep....and > > > deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited > by > > a > > > body mind intellect........ > > > > > > and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many > > > hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside > > > the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage > > > > > > Marc > > > > > your preaching to the choir marc, that's elementary my dear watson. > > you're just trying to move around furniture, and like in a dream > that > > now it's allright b/c you have a new personal view to look at. > > Can you hear that? > > Were talking about raising the level of Love, marc, not move around > > thoughts. where is love coming from and how to live in it? > > > > " where is love coming from and how to live in it? " .... > > love is there......it is not coming " from somewhere " .... > > love is rising in the whole body, mind and intellect.....just like > the sun (appear to) rise in the morning....... > > means, love is there......at every moment......one only feel > It.......when the " clouds " are away.......when body,mind,intellect > are in harmony with Self..... > > ....or if you want....WH.....when one leave the cage > > (you can't feel (sense) the sunshine behind the clouds?.....or during > night.....feel the sunshine.....even in the darkness of night) > > everybody live in this love.......with more or less consciousness > about......more or less consciousness about the connection between > everyone.....more or less consciousness about the unity of all....... > > emotions of all kind are the effect of this love...... > > to give this emotions of all kind to " God " ........would be a nice and > peaceful way of living....with It > > ...means....to just let energy of love.....flow through life..... > > thats all > > there is no other choice......even if one " think " there is......maybe > by some clouds in the mind..... > > Marc > There is no substance to your words, just lalalalalalal, that's why i repeat " " " " " " " speak french. " " " " " " " " you write like your high......and....all.......dots.....are.....WHAT FOR? You say eveybody live in this love___________WHAT LOVE? MAKES NOT SENSE, C'EST PAS LOGIC. you repeat ramblings of love marc, love me, love coming up love this, love through love love, love thinking,..... no don't love...... thinking...... love nothing..... it gets to scrambled you might have good intentions but this forum doesn't suit your expression, you need interaction. 3d man peace mon frere EN DIEU.__________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " > > > > > > > > > > <green1911@v...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Pete S > > > > <pedsie4@e...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like someone trying to leave a room by piling > > > > > > > > > > > > furniture against a door, people keep acquiring > > > > > > > > > > > > knowledge to touch the unknown. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> " All these ideas of yours are binding you. > > Once > > > > you > > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > >> there is no knowledge, that it is all > > ignorance, > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > on your > > > > > > > > > > > > >> proper level. You have the idea that I have > > the > > > > > > knowledge; > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > >> only an idea. Honestly speaking, there is no > > > > knowledge > > > > > > > > > > > whatsoever. It > > > > > > > > > > > > >> is beyond all imagination, it has no > > attributes. > > > > It > > > > > > cannot > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > imagined > > > > > > > > > > > > >> at all. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > niz has done an excellent job of describing the > > stone > > > > > > beside me. > > > > > > > > > > > if i asked the Niz does the tree beside me > think, > > or > > > > the > > > > > > dog, > > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > > > > > or is the dog just not imagining, having no > > > attributes? > > > > > > > > > > > what's Niz's take? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what would he say? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants things to be final, answers to > be > > > > final. > > > > > > A > > > > > > > > sage > > > > > > > > > > like Niz would probably not give you a final > answer, > > > but > > > > an > > > > > > answer > > > > > > > > > > apropriate AT THAT MOMENT. If you ask the same > > question > > > > again > > > > > > > > after a > > > > > > > > > > little while, Niz may give you a completely > different > > > > answer! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Some questions can be final answers, like " what is > the > > > sum > > > > of 2 > > > > > > + > > > > > > > > 2? " , > > > > > > > > > and the answer is " 4 " . But if you ask someone, " how > do > > > you > > > > > > feel " , > > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > you may not receive the same answer every time, > > although > > > > most > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > would probably always answer " fine " , although they > > really > > > > felt > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > shit. Hehe. :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i'm very surprised al, & co, that no one has come up > with > > > an > > > > > > answer. > > > > > > > > i can't imagine this not being in his recorded archives > > > > > > somewhere. If > > > > > > > > not, you are without much and will be a dry branch for > > Niz > > > > since > > > > > > > > simple questions can't be answered. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect, does not need final answers but ones > that > > > > appear > > > > > > > > logical, rational. consider most of you who have taken > up > > > Niz > > > > > > > > teachings and are satisfied someway intellectually b/c > > his > > > > > > teachings > > > > > > > > led you to look into a mirror and see nothing. > > Interesting, > > > > but > > > > > > funny > > > > > > > > to me. i've been married 20 years and my wife heard > that > > > from > > > > me > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > the beginning. i used to say that's not me in the > mirror, > > > but > > > > i > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > been like that since teenage years. And 2 of you, tell > > me > > > > this > > > > > > > > mirror thing including waaba. > > > > > > > > So makes me think how not advanced you are still > looking > > at > > > > > > the 'not > > > > > > > > self' in the mirror. lol How about i saw 'not that' in > > the > > > > 60's > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > and in the 50's allready new that i was not even from > > this > > > > planet > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > was speaking like that at 12 and 13, before all > beedees, > > > but > > > > i > > > > > > guess > > > > > > > > it doesn't matter to you guys, who still look in the > not > > > that > > > > > > mirror > > > > > > > > ______LOLOL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are needing me to help bring you, from not that, > to " > > I > > > > am > > > > > > This " . > > > > > > > > but by the sounds of many of you and others on other so > > > > called > > > > > > > > nonduality sites you are too much into 'this' body > stuff, > > > > > > including > > > > > > > > mind mental masterbating, amd all is one love, man. > love > > > > woman. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You don't know me or my life, but this impersonal > > internet > > > > stuff > > > > > > > > suits your impersonal non duality just fine, and you > > can't > > > be > > > > > > > > truthful, open and honest, bc it's not important. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but when you leave here it is important. So you are > > filled > > > > with > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > words. nothing but is hypocrisy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > your loving whitehorse > > > > > > > > trying to help you to realize the paramatma > > > > > > > > and not just the brahman effulgence. the one lovey > > dovey > > > > thing. > > > > > > > > The true Self Within. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The intellect wants rational answers, and that is sane. I > > > guess > > > > one > > > > > > > can use the intellect to help stepping out of the > > intellect. > > > > Then > > > > > > the > > > > > > > sense of self is no longer trapped in only thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > > > > > this becomes an interesting topic for me. > > > > > > first off b/c i'm having to converse mostly with > > impersonalists > > > > on > > > > > > this list, i need to put a couple of things in perspective > al. > > > > > > Most discusions here really goes to step 3 and 4 jumping > > over, > > > 1 > > > > & 2 > > > > > > for lack of better expression. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, you must truly believe that the soul is 'part of' > the > > > Soul > > > > or > > > > > > God. i do not condone trying to rationalize 'away' God to > see > > > > > > yourself as God. This is not good. > > > > > > > > > > > > For eg here pete qoted the Niz, the real problem with the > > > person > > > > is a > > > > > > lack of faith that the door would lead to the Soul or that > > God > > > > was > > > > > > behind the door. So instead of opening, they cluttered the > > door > > > > like > > > > > > alomost in fear of the door. And the cluttering is all the > > > > thoughts > > > > > > like what if and basically as i call it " a doubting tom " > > > > > > > > > > > > For eg if you meet someone, who so falls in love with you, > > > their > > > > > > emotions of love are towards you, that does not need > > > > intelligence, > > > > > > it's simply stored feelings of remembrance. So love or > > > purifiying > > > > the > > > > > > heart does not require intelligence. > > > > > > > > > > > > First faith and belief in God. Believing that only God can > > > help > > > > you > > > > > > become pure or to realize Him, or your relationship with > Him > > > > which is > > > > > > very real and in this world. If you went to 'the door' and > > > opened > > > > it > > > > > > there would be God and then you can live in reciprocating > > > > loving > > > > > > relationship. This is not realy understood in this nondaul, > > > > negate > > > > > > type of teaching, which is more an exercise in mental > > > gymnastics, > > > > > > trying to gain control and dimish thoughts. In other words > > > > behind > > > > > > the door is nothing. Niz's roots are in Buddhism, but stray > > > from > > > > it > > > > > > with word jugglery adapting his own expression. Others like > > > Oshe > > > > and > > > > > > alike are strains of the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing new, their are hundreds and hundreds of expressions > > > going > > > > on > > > > > > in India of Mayavadi philosophy. > > > > > > > > > > > > There has been posted an expression of collapsing the > > intellect. > > > > > > That's interesting concept too, because it's rooted in > > > removing > > > > all > > > > > > the personal thoughts. Meditation is one way to quiet the > > mind. > > > > > > But ultimately, there is no out for service and being > active. > > > One > > > > > > must eat, sleep and do things. > > > > > > 'Purification of conscience' is the 'mood' in which you do > > your > > > > > > actions, it's as simple as that. Once you realize " your > > > > objective " > > > > > > then all will fall into place. > > > > > > Actually it's not unlike setting your mind on a goal, > > personal > > > > goal > > > > > > and all your energy is focused there. The energy or action > in > > > > time > > > > > > turns to pure love. > > > > > > Except in this case if God is your focus, He becomes > > obligated > > > to > > > > > > reciprocate. Nothing can buy God, no amount of money or > > giving > > > > or > > > > > > philanthropic efforts. Just like a women who's determined > to > > > > leave, > > > > > > because her mind is made up and she doesn't care how much > > love > > > > you > > > > > > show or give her, she's going. > > > > > > > > > > > > But God is different, in that He is bound or bought by > > genuine > > > > loving > > > > > > service. > > > > > > Exactly what that implies is He will reciprocate. How? > > Through > > > > > > manifold manifestations of this world, just like the Holy > > > > Prophets > > > > > > were reminded of His presence through Divine Interventions > > and > > > in > > > > > > dreams and visions through the Spirit. > > > > > > When you are in this type of relationship it's not just > your > > > > > > imagination it's actually in personal loving intimate ways > > > > special to > > > > > > each and every soul that enters His house, ie 'oens the > door' > > > > first > > > > > > with faith. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, here on the Niz channel you will not get this > > > > expression. > > > > > > They say " t's all your doing " and that's the primary > > > difference. > > > > This > > > > > > will inevitably turn into a game of mental gymnastics > > > especially > > > > > > without the respected mediator himself. But it will serve > to > > > > satisfy > > > > > > some who are caught up in the room putting furniture > against > > > the > > > > > > door, and yet the think they are just rearranging their > > room. > > > > > > Factually, they are just moving the knowlege around and not > > > going > > > > > > anywhere. It is a self imposed prisom cell or room with a > > lock > > > on > > > > the > > > > > > inside without a key to get out. > > > > > > Do you understand that analogy al? moving furniture around > > > > doesn't > > > > > > change anything just offers another look at the same ole > > stuff. > > > > > > > > > > > > God, our Father, proposes always new and is adventurous, > > filled > > > > with > > > > > > unique situations and conditions that open new > circumstances > > > > that > > > > > > allow Him to be there for you in a personal way. This is > the > > > > heart > > > > > > of one in love with God. cherising the moments that He > steps > > in > > > > to > > > > > > share a meal, or just a few words of encouragement. A kind > > > of " i > > > > love > > > > > > you Al, my only son, now continue, I'm with you. " these are > > the > > > > > > special moments, the muse of God and the rasa or personal > > > > intimacy > > > > > > one has with Him/Her. In that relationship, there is only > > love > > > > and > > > > > > it's energy is free flowing two ways not one, but two. That > > is > > > > True > > > > > > Love. > > > > > > > > > > > > ok enough here, > > > > > > i'm soon going to come up with a and will get > > into > > > > the > > > > > > intricacies of the how to's whens and where's. > > > > > > Love is in the air and it's moving in mysterious ways. > > > > > > > > > > > > ps. i know i didn't give a full blown answer to your > concerns > > > > but > > > > > > more will come, patience is the virtue of a loving > > son/daughter. > > > > > > > > > > > > your friend in the Holy Spirit > > > > > > whitehorserides > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand your analogy, your extended version of Pete's > room > > > with > > > > > furniture. A very good analogy I would say. The room is the > > > > intellect, > > > > > and the intellect cannot itself get out of itself, so to > speak. > > We > > > > > need something that lifts us above the intellect so that we > can > > > see > > > > > and experience a wider and bigger, and certainly more free, > > > > > perspective. You call this external power God. I call it > > > > > life/evolution. But maybe God is a better pointer. When we > > think > > > of > > > > > evolution, we think of progress and the intellect thinks that > IT > > > > > ITSELF is the function that is going to do the progress, but > it > > is > > > > > clear that there must be some- " thing " else that pulls itself > up > > > by > > > > its > > > > > own bootstraps. Fortunately there is such a force. The > > intellect > > > is > > > > > not responsible for holding every atom in the universe > together. > > > > > > > > > > al. > > > > > > > > ....during deep sleep......it happen that this " limited room " > > > > disappear...... > > > > it happen that whole body sense disappear......... > > > > > > > > this show that, indead, one is attached to this " room " ....by a > > > > working intellect....by the dream of being " this or > that " ......by > > > the > > > > dream to be this body mind intellect...... > > > > > > > > the nature of dream is.....that they come to an end..... > > > > just like life.....one day.....come to an end...... > > > > > > > > one realized person don't need anymore endless hours of > > > sleep....and > > > > deep sleep.........because a realized person is no more limited > > by > > > a > > > > body mind intellect........ > > > > > > > > and so....don't need to fall asleep.....everyday for many > > > > hours.......to get " back " to Self.....to " home " ........outside > > > > the " imaginary " room.......outside the selfmade cage > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > your preaching to the choir marc, that's elementary my dear > watson. > > > you're just trying to move around furniture, and like in a dream > > that > > > now it's allright b/c you have a new personal view to look at. > > > Can you hear that? > > > Were talking about raising the level of Love, marc, not move > around > > > thoughts. where is love coming from and how to live in it? > > > > > > > " where is love coming from and how to live in it? " .... > > > > love is there......it is not coming " from somewhere " .... > > > > love is rising in the whole body, mind and intellect.....just like > > the sun (appear to) rise in the morning....... > > > > means, love is there......at every moment......one only feel > > It.......when the " clouds " are away.......when body,mind,intellect > > are in harmony with Self..... > > > > ....or if you want....WH.....when one leave the cage > > > > (you can't feel (sense) the sunshine behind the clouds?.....or > during > > night.....feel the sunshine.....even in the darkness of night) > > > > everybody live in this love.......with more or less consciousness > > about......more or less consciousness about the connection between > > everyone.....more or less consciousness about the unity of > all....... > > > > emotions of all kind are the effect of this love...... > > > > to give this emotions of all kind to " God " ........would be a nice > and > > peaceful way of living....with It > > > > ...means....to just let energy of love.....flow through life..... > > > > thats all > > > > there is no other choice......even if one " think " there > is......maybe > > by some clouds in the mind..... > > > > Marc > > > There is no substance to your words, just lalalalalalal, that's why i > repeat " " " " " " " speak french. " " " " " " " " > you write like your high......and....all.......dots.....are.....WHAT > FOR? > > You say eveybody live in this love___________WHAT LOVE? > MAKES NOT SENSE, C'EST PAS LOGIC. > > you repeat ramblings of love marc, love me, love coming up love this, > love through love love, love thinking,..... no don't love...... > thinking...... love nothing..... > it gets to scrambled > > you might have good intentions but this forum doesn't suit your > expression, you need interaction. 3d man > peace mon frere > > EN DIEU.__________________ yes, sure....it's possible also to see God through the windows of your selfmade cage...... but thats your problem WH......and still remain....your problem..... you can't get out of yourself.......thats the reason why you look every word......through the window of your cage...... maybe pray to Jesus......that He come back....and show again.....specially for you...the best friend of God..........how much value has a body, mind, intellect.....only Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " whitehorserides " <green1911@v...> wrote: > .... > > Al,. > > i don't call God 'external power', though He is that too, but All > Power, and alsofrom within. That's why it's repeated to realize first > God within then there is peace. God is manifesting from within at the > deepest sense of the self. > On another post the other day, i gave an expression that it takes > going deep into the self reflection to the root. There you find God > saying " aaahh you found Me, it's been a journey hasn't it? " From > there is the " relationship " kindled " in love " . You don't go to the > root and say " oh there's love, or there's God, i'm now the God, or > i'm the manifestation of love " If you do that, then things start > revolving around you, instead of you being in the love and feeling it > from within, you stand outside of love looking at it. > > ___-another analogy is 'talking at someone' and not 'to or with' them. > this internet chat is like 'at them', that's why these impersonalists > including christains as the same but different, flourish in these > forums. This is actually robotic communication or like alien nations > meeting grounds and interacting, with the mind and intellect. It > lacks dimension and color and 3d hence the composition is weak, it's > not a complete painting. Ever been to an art gallery, sit and stare > at the painting and you can almost get interaction, whereas if you > look at a picture of it on the internet,it doesn't really speak to > you because you can't feel the brush strokes nor see the movement of > the pallet or colors in a harmony. > > That compares to this forum. It's not interactive, just active > without seeing the love, or lover behind it. just a blank stare into > an imaginary world, _____________impersonalism, Niz style. > > That's why my words have very little effect b/c everyone is just > blocking. and i can't speak 'to them', just 'at them' and nothing > goes through. > But if you were with me in public, much more goes through b/c you can > hear the sound of my voice, see my eyes, feel my spirit as i can > yours. Therefore it's interactive, intercourse and there is more > truth, trust and faith developed from personal intimatacy than just > plain intellectualism, played out in this forum. > > God is personal like that, in the present. As it is said " developed > the eyesalve of love in your eyes, and see God " > But, then it also says open the doors anda i will come and supp with > you. God is a loving, intimate pfriend, pal, loved one. He's not a > dream to move in and out of in thought. He's as Alive and comes alive > in your spirit when accecpted in your heart. Therefore clean house > throw the old out and make room cause He's coming to town and He > knows if you've been bad or good b/c He's omnipresent, by His own > Spiritual manifested energies. > Something that is dificult for the impersonalist to understand b/c > they think all energy is the same, or one. but they like that b/c it > gives them room to justify their personal whims, and say it's all > love or it's all one. > > > stay tuned > whitehorserides > Vernon Howard also talked about God: " ...right now there is you and there is God. Never the twain shall meet. ...you don't like God at all......You are on one side right now.....you are on the downhill side of God.....but you can see the condition you are in and not like being there... " (I may have misquoted what he said exactly, but the meaning is clear I think). Here is a good desctiption of people's everyday condition, including my own: http://www.anewlife.org/assets/multimedia/New_Ways_for_New_Days.rm al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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