Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Bohm: " Classical physics says that reality is actually little particles that separate the world into its independent elements. Now I am proposing the reverse, that the fundamental reality is the enfoldment and unfoldment, and these particles are abstractions from that. We could picture the electron not as a particle that exists continuously but as something coming in and going out and then coming in again. If these various condensations are close together, they approximate a track. The electron itself can never be separated from the whole of space, which is its ground. " --- " There are two experiences: One is movement in relation to other things; the other is the sense of flow. The movement of meaning is the sense of flow. But even in moving through space, there is a movement of meaning. In a moving picture, with twenty-four frames per second, one frame follows another, moving from the eye through the optic nerve, into the brain. The experience of several frames together gives you the sense of flow. This is a direct experience of the implicate order. " --- " Consciousness is unfolded in each individual. Clearly, it's shared between people as they look at one object and verify that it's the same. So any high level of consciousness is a social process. There may be some level of sensorimotor perception that is purely individual, but any abstract level depends on language, which is social. The word, which is outside, evokes the meaning, which is inside each person. Meaning is the bridge between consciousness and matter. Any given array of matter has for any particular mind a significance. The other side of this is the relationship in which meaning is immediately effective in matter. Suppose you see a shadow on a dark night. If it means " assailant, " your adrenaline flows, your heart beats faster, blood pressure rises, and muscles tense. The body and all your thoughts are affected; everything about you has changed. If you see that it's only a shadow, there's an abrupt change again. That is an example of the implicate order: Meaning enfolds the whole world into me, and vice versa-that enfolded meaning is unfolded as action, through my body and then through the world. The word hormone means " messenger, " that is, a substance carrying ome meaning. Neurotransmitters carry meaning, and that meaning profoundly affects the immune system. This understanding could be the beginning of a different attitude to mind-and to life. " Questioner (Omni): " Descartes held mind and external reality together with God. You're holding the two with meaning. " Bohm: " I say meaning is being! So any transformation of society must result in a profound change of meaning. Any change of meaning for the individual would change the whole because all individuals are so similar that it can be communicated. " http://www.fdavidpeat.com/interviews/bohm.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 > I say meaning is being! Brings to mind various comments by Nisargadatta on 'I am' and being. He equates 'I am' and being, as when he admonishes to focus " the mind on 'I am', on the sense of being. " That he equates meaning with being can be seen in: " Why not turn away from the experience to the experiencer and realize the full import of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'? " Looking for the quotes above I stumbled upon: " Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. By repeated attempts you will stumble on the right balance of attention and affection and your mind will be firmly established in the thought-feeling 'I am'. " I thought it interesting in connection with recent exchages with you/Werner regarding feeling. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illieusion@h...> wrote: > > > I say meaning is being! > > Brings to mind various comments by Nisargadatta > on 'I am' and being. He equates 'I am' and being, > as when he admonishes to focus " the mind on 'I am', > on the sense of being. " > > That he equates meaning with being can be seen in: > " Why not turn away from the experience > to the experiencer and realize the full import > of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'? " > > Looking for the quotes above I stumbled upon: > " Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', > merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. > By repeated attempts you will stumble on the > right balance of attention and affection > and your mind will be firmly established > in the thought-feeling 'I am'. " > > I thought it interesting in connection with > recent exchages with you/Werner regarding feeling. > > > Bill > how's your paint brush bill? don't you think it's time to meet the mind to the canvas? All this stimulous should have you thirsting, lusting to throw color? Does an artist mind know anothers mind? i saw that quote by Niz the other day. i've been pulling at you guys to go dig up guru's stuff and bring it to the blank canvas, that i've been staring at for weeks. emptiness knows nothing until something fills it. anyways___________notice the feelings that Niz inferred. A true realized soul must come back to the heart, otherwise what good is he? your intellectual games dangle in the air off the cliffs edge without being rooted in love, or pure feelings _____________________GOD_________________________ and soon you'll will what and why i've been here. whitehorserides again peace to you my friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Yes Bill, It reminded me too of our exchange. Since longer I already have that idea that consciousness is a social function. Werner Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illieusion@h...> wrote: > > > I say meaning is being! > > Brings to mind various comments by Nisargadatta > on 'I am' and being. He equates 'I am' and being, > as when he admonishes to focus " the mind on 'I am', > on the sense of being. " > > That he equates meaning with being can be seen in: > " Why not turn away from the experience > to the experiencer and realize the full import > of the only true statement you can make: 'I am'? " > > Looking for the quotes above I stumbled upon: > " Just keep in mind the feeling 'I am', > merge in it, till your mind and feeling become one. > By repeated attempts you will stumble on the > right balance of attention and affection > and your mind will be firmly established > in the thought-feeling 'I am'. " > > I thought it interesting in connection with > recent exchages with you/Werner regarding feeling. > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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