Guest guest Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to Tell you to see who you are first, Love who you are second, no matter what you have done Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything That needs to be fixed. Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own life, As well as find a method for full expression.. And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was an easy Maintenance job? Or Boring? Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that they are The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong locale, The wrong ______fill in your own blank. Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely available, Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that killing is not right. And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side of the side And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. Eh? Turn it around. Turn around and really really see who you are, Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. Ana More testy ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 In a message dated 12/21/2005 3:28:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, nli10u writes: > only when we truly SEE Larry: Whether we see or don't see, we are all, and everything is, LIFE ITSELF, so there is no real problem being whoever we are in the moment. Both the ignorant and the wise are fully embraced by LIFE, so no problem. Just remember that the other guy has as much LIFE energy supporting and being who he/she is as you and I. That is why sometimes things are so easy, and sometimes so difficult. Anyhow, that's how it seems to me. www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 In a message dated 12/21/2005 3:37:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, bigwaaba writes: > no, it is not so. > there is not a true seeing and a false one, just seeing. > now, seeing and loving are not two. > > Larry: I suppose that loving has an object, and seeing does not, and that makes them different. At least in words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 seeing and loving are not two. Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? > You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. > And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. > Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? > > Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to > Tell you to see who you are first, > Love who you are second, no matter what you have done > Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! > Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything > That needs to be fixed. > > Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going > To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for > Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? > Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, > Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me > Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take > The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread > Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what > You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own life, > As well as find a method for full expression.. > > And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone > To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was an easy > Maintenance job? Or Boring? > > Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that they are > The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong locale, > The wrong ______fill in your own blank. > Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. > Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely available, > Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. > Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that killing is not right. > > And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side of the side > And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. Eh? > Turn it around. > Turn around and really really see who you are, > Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. > > > > > > Ana > > > More testy ;-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 only when we truly SEE until then it is just more evasive tactives from knowing who one is, miscalculating and misrepresenting offending and defending the truth of one's life, living clarity peace and most of all love which is always life, ie living itself as One, taking on the cloak of duality to live, forgive and be the right action in/as/of the One life. is this not so? - bigwaaba Nisargadatta Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:18 AM Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** seeing and loving are not two. Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? > You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. > And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. > Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? > > Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to > Tell you to see who you are first, > Love who you are second, no matter what you have done > Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! > Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything > That needs to be fixed. > > Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going > To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for > Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? > Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, > Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me > Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take > The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread > Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what > You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own life, > As well as find a method for full expression.. > > And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone > To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was an easy > Maintenance job? Or Boring? > > Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that they are > The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong locale, > The wrong ______fill in your own blank. > Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. > Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely available, > Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. > Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that killing is not right. > > And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side of the side > And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. Eh? > Turn it around. > Turn around and really really see who you are, > Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. > > > > > > Ana > > > More testy ;-) > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 no, it is not so. there is not a true seeing and a false one, just seeing. now, seeing and loving are not two. , Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > only when we truly SEE > until then it is just more evasive tactives from knowing who one is, > miscalculating and misrepresenting offending and defending the truth > of one's life, living clarity peace and most of all love which is always life, > ie living itself as One, taking on the cloak of duality to live, forgive and be > the right action in/as/of the One life. > > is this not so? > - > bigwaaba > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:18 AM > Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** > > > seeing and loving are not two. > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? > > You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. > > And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. > > Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? > > > > Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to > > Tell you to see who you are first, > > Love who you are second, no matter what you have done > > Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! > > Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything > > That needs to be fixed. > > > > Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going > > To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for > > Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? > > Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, > > Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me > > Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take > > The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread > > Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what > > You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own life, > > As well as find a method for full expression.. > > > > And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone > > To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was an > easy > > Maintenance job? Or Boring? > > > > Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that they are > > The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong > locale, > > The wrong ______fill in your own blank. > > Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. > > Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely available, > > Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. > > Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that > killing is not right. > > > > And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side of > the side > > And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. > Eh? > > Turn it around. > > Turn around and really really see who you are, > > Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > More testy ;-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 ok, we only truly see when we see with the light of love in our eyes, the nondual sight of ajna, now we are on the same page? - bigwaaba Nisargadatta Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:36 AM Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** no, it is not so. there is not a true seeing and a false one, just seeing. now, seeing and loving are not two. , Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > only when we truly SEE > until then it is just more evasive tactives from knowing who one is, > miscalculating and misrepresenting offending and defending the truth > of one's life, living clarity peace and most of all love which is always life, > ie living itself as One, taking on the cloak of duality to live, forgive and be > the right action in/as/of the One life. > > is this not so? > - > bigwaaba > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:18 AM > Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** > > > seeing and loving are not two. > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? > > You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. > > And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. > > Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? > > > > Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to > > Tell you to see who you are first, > > Love who you are second, no matter what you have done > > Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! > > Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything > > That needs to be fixed. > > > > Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going > > To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for > > Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? > > Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, > > Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me > > Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take > > The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread > > Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what > > You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own life, > > As well as find a method for full expression.. > > > > And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone > > To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was an > easy > > Maintenance job? Or Boring? > > > > Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that they are > > The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong > locale, > > The wrong ______fill in your own blank. > > Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. > > Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely available, > > Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. > > Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that > killing is not right. > > > > And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side of > the side > > And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. > Eh? > > Turn it around. > > Turn around and really really see who you are, > > Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > More testy ;-) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 dear one, the one you describe is the only seeing! that's is why i say that there is no true, nor false in it. always on the same page Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > ok, > we only truly see > when we see with the light of love in our eyes, > the nondual sight of ajna, > now we are on the same page? > > > - > bigwaaba > Nisargadatta > Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:36 AM > Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** > > > no, it is not so. > there is not a true seeing and a false one, just seeing. > now, seeing and loving are not two. > > > > , Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > only when we truly SEE > > until then it is just more evasive tactives from knowing who one is, > > miscalculating and misrepresenting offending and defending the truth > > of one's life, living clarity peace and most of all love which is > always life, > > ie living itself as One, taking on the cloak of duality to live, > forgive and be > > the right action in/as/of the One life. > > > > is this not so? > > - > > bigwaaba > > Nisargadatta > > Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:18 AM > > Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** > > > > > > seeing and loving are not two. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > So you want to be non-dual and/or spiritual? > > > You want to run away from Reality with a capital R. > > > And pretend the world is perfect just the way it is. > > > Or you want to be Mr./Ms. fix-it? > > > > > > Damn it anyway, how many gurus do you need to > > > Tell you to see who you are first, > > > Love who you are second, no matter what you have done > > > Or not done according to any Book or Law, Yes! > > > Forgive and love yourself first for thinking there is anything > > > That needs to be fixed. > > > > > > Wait a minute there friend; you think a spiritual ego is going > > > To suffice for a minute, without the whole world going for > > > Your jugular just to bleed you dry from faulty thinking? > > > Your heart is a sieve, leaks all over the place, > > > Unless your blood gives new life to your Living, tell me > > > Dear One, what good is all of your work on yourself? Take > > > The show on the road, and explode or implode and spread > > > Out, fly with your soaring spirit and know that THIS IS what > > > You have been seeking; give weight and solidity to your own > life, > > > As well as find a method for full expression.. > > > > > > And change what you can. There's enough work to be undone > > > To last an eternity or two, did you think heaven on earth was > an > > easy > > > Maintenance job? Or Boring? > > > > > > Didn't you hear? People are dying for no other reason that > they are > > > The wrong color, the wrong ideology, the wrong sex, the wrong > > locale, > > > The wrong ______fill in your own blank. > > > Death is not a good cure for hunger and thirst. > > > Death is not a good cure for not having medicine freely > available, > > > Death is not a good cure for not having a warm bed to sleep in. > > > Death is not a good cure for killing the killer to teach that > > killing is not right. > > > > > > And what if it is you who is the wrong one, on the wrong side > of > > the side > > > And inside out or sideways, always all ways a revolving door. > > Eh? > > > Turn it around. > > > Turn around and really really see who you are, > > > Before someone points to you and says it's all your fault. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > More testy ;-) > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 - epston Nisargadatta Wednesday, December 21, 2005 8:24 AM Re: Re: Nondual Spiritual S*** In a message dated 12/21/2005 3:28:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, nli10u writes: > only when we truly SEE Larry: Whether we see or don't see, we are all, and everything is, LIFE ITSELF, so there is no real problem being whoever we are in the moment. Both the ignorant and the wise are fully embraced by LIFE, so no problem. Just remember that the other guy has as much LIFE energy supporting and being who he/she is as you and I. That is why sometimes things are so easy, and sometimes so difficult. Anyhow, that's how it seems to me. www.epston.com Exactly dear larry, this is the beginning of wisdom, of honouring Self, of living the process of Life undivided as Love. good morning ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami “Sanyasa” or “Renunciation” is the only way to please the Lord as per Gita (“Samnyasena Adhi Gachchati”). This does not mean orange coloured dress and a stick. “Sam” means completely. “Nyasa” means both attachment and detachment. Attachment to God and detachment from world are the meanings. World means both qualities and deeds caused by qualities. Both attachment and detachment must take place simultaneously. Each one is a cause for the other. Unless the detachment from world is completed one cannot attach to God. Unless one attaches to God, he cannot simultaneously detach himself from the world. Both are simultaneous as you see by both the eyes simultaneously. Those who cannot resist the world should detach from the world. Such detachment is external as well as internal. “Dama” is external detachment, which is like not going to cinema theatre in the world. “Sama” is internal detachment, which is like resisting the T.V. cinema in the house. The old feelings in “Chittam” appear on the screen of mind as cinema. Resisting the mental activity though senses is Yoga as told by Patanjali (Chittavrutii Nirodhah). If you resist seeing, hearing etc., the entry of external poison into mind is stopped. But the poison was already precipitated in “Chittam” (storing capacity of mind) since from several births. Thus the mental activity (Chitta Vrutti) is both external as well as internal. This activity is called as “Sphota” by Sanskrit grammar, according to which the “Chittam” has two meanings. One is addition of poison from outside (Samjnanam) and other is digestion of already existing poison (Smaranam). The poison is the bundle of worldly matters. Resistance of mental activity is to be done by the soul, which can be effected by the poison. But a Scholar (Jnani) does not resist this poison. He digests the poison and so takes it from outside also. Both these activities are done by the subtle body (Sukshma Sareeram), which is made of qualities or mind. The gross body (Sthula Sareeram) is a composite of senses, which do actions initiated by qualities. A “Jnani” separates from these two bodies and enters the third causal body (Karana Sareeram), which is pure awareness. He will not cross the boundaries of this third body, which is also called as “Atman” and such a Scholar is called “Sthita Prajna”. “Prajna” means pure awareness. “Sthita” means the person limited to pure awareness. Since he takes the decision of himself to be Atman, “Buddhi” (Intelligence) also becomes the pure awareness. Since he decides the meaning of “I” as pure awareness, the “Ahankara” (I) also becomes pure awareness. You must note that “Prajna” also means Bhuddhi. The remaining two internal items (Antahkaranams) are “Chittam” which is the C.D. cassette of precipitated feelings and “Manas” (mind) which is the screen. The internal T.V. show goes on and the Spectator (Aatman) sees the show and enjoys it. His gross body is his own house which is the cinema theatre. The whole show is the subtle body and the causal body is the spectator. The spectator has no link with the T.V. Show and is only entertained. The Spectator is not disturbed by the show and is only entertained. The spectator is not disturbed by the show and is called “Gunateeta” by Gita (Guna Guneshu Vartante…). This T.V. show initiates the senses of the gross body, which do deeds according to the qualities of show. The Atman or Spectator (I) is separated from the gross body also and so is not linked to the deeds and the qualities. Such soul is detached from qualities, deeds and their corresponding results. This does not mean that he does not receive the results of his deeds. The subtle and gross bodies did the deeds and so enjoy the results. But this soul detached from these two bodies is a spectator of such enjoyment of the enjoyer. The soul is not enjoyer since it is not the doer of the deeds. The wheel that constitutes the deeds and results (Karma Chakra) is also not effected, which is related to his subtle and gross bodies only and not to his causal body or Atman. Subtle and gross bodies are the “doer” and “enjoyer”, constituting a show for the entertainment of the causal body, which is just a spectator. Since the subtle body is also made of awareness, it enjoys the results through its gross body. But an ordinary human being identifies himself with the subtle body and gross body as “I” and therefore becomes doer and enjoyer. But the Scholar fixes “I” to the causal body only and de-links himself from doer and enjoyer. There are two vessels containing vibrated water. Both the vessels undergo the stress due to water vibrations. The vessel is the gross body and water-vibrations are subtle body. An ignorant fellow identifies himself with vessel and water vibrations and so is vibrated and undergoes stress. But the scholar identifies himself with the water only and not with the vibrations and not with the vessel. He is not vibrated and has no stress and goes on enjoying the vibrations and stress. Even if he does a sin, he goes to hell and enjoys the punishment. The punishment is received by his subtle and gross bodies and he as Atman observes such enjoyment of punishment and enjoys by the entertainment. Ramana Maharshi got a boil on the body due to some deed. But he confined to the soul and so was not doer of that deed. When the boil was operated, He observed it and His subtle body enjoyed the pain. But he, as Atman was entertained by such operation. When Gita says “Atmavantam na Karmani”, it means the Jnani enjoys the results of deeds but he is detached to such enjoyment. “Avasyamanu bhoktavyam…. Kalpakoti Sataih” means, one has to under go the results of his deeds even after millions of births with interest. The doer can never escape the enjoyment of results. But in the case of a deserving devotee, the Lord comes down as human incarnation and enjoys his results. Except this way, the doer has to enjoy the results. But in the case of a deserving devotee, the Lord comes down as human incarnation and enjoys his results. Except this way, the doer has to undergo the results. But in that path, the devotee should not aspire for such unjust punishment of the Lord and should resist it, if he comes to know it. The Lord is called “Datta” for this reason only, since He donates Himself for the sake of His devotee. When Datta enjoys such results, He also behaves like Yogi. It means, He confines Himself to the soul and His subtle and gross bodies undergo the punishments. Therefore, a Yogi is just like the Lord in this aspect of spectatorship. The Lord has the power of creation of world and not the Yogi. But this difference is irrelevant during the aspect of spectatorship. Therefore, this “Advaita” (oneness) state of liberated soul and the Lord is meaningful, which was proposed by Sankara. This whole Universe is the gross body of the Lord and “Hiranya Garbha” is the subtle body of the Lord. Hiranya Garbha means the composite form of all the souls. Now, in the gross and subtle bodies of the Lord also, a number of reactions and changes are going on as a cinema. The “Maha Maya” is the Atman or causal body of the Lord, which is a spectator only. He confines himself to this Atman and sees the show in His subtle and gross bodies. posted by: His servant at the lotus feet of shri datta swami www.universal-spirituality.org epston wrote: Larry: Whether we see or don't see, we are all, and everything is, LIFE ITSELF, so there is no real problem being whoever we are in the moment. Both the ignorant and the wise are fully embraced by LIFE, so no problem. Just remember that the other guy has as much LIFE energy supporting and being who he/she is as you and I. That is why sometimes things are so easy, and sometimes so difficult. Anyhow, that's how it seems to me.www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 In a message dated 12/21/2005 12:29:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, bigwaaba writes: > why supposing such a thing? > loving, just as seeing, will have an object only if there is a > subject. find the subject of loving ( or of seeing, as you prefer), > and what is left is an impersonal action with both the quality of > love and light. On second thought, I supposed one can see with no object, and love as well, with no object. As, in the dark with eyes open, and loving someone who has died. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 why supposing such a thing? loving, just as seeing, will have an object only if there is a subject. find the subject of loving ( or of seeing, as you prefer), and what is left is an impersonal action with both the quality of love and light. Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2005 3:37:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, > bigwaaba writes: > > > no, it is not so. > > there is not a true seeing and a false one, just seeing. > > now, seeing and loving are not two. > > > > > > Larry: I suppose that loving has an object, and seeing does not, and that > makes them different. At least in words. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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