Guest guest Posted December 21, 2005 Report Share Posted December 21, 2005 In a message dated 12/21/2005 7:07:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, silver-1069 writes: > > Silver: Larry, how do you know you are experiencing reality as > reality? Does your own conviction make it so? > > Larry: Knowing and how you/I know something is a wiggly concept. I use the > word " know " in a very limited way. I only " know " what is immediate, can be > perceived, experienced. That's the way I use it. It is true that a person can > be tricked or fooled into accepting something as known, that then turns out > to be a fake, a trick, but my quess is that that seldom happens in ordinary > life. > You don't know if your car is still out on the street. You don't know if > your book is on the shelf in the other room, but you can know that you are > sitting on a chair. You can know that you smell the rice burning in the other > room, you can know if the lights are on or off. Usually. > I know how I feel. Whether I have a headache or an upset stomach. I know > if I feel hot or cold, or if a breeze is coming in through the window. I can > look and see if a window is open or closed. I can also know what I am > thinking about, whether I feel worried, or tense, or relaxed. > In these things, I can have the experience of knowing. In this way, the > word know or knowing is rather limited, yet sufficient to describe certain > perceptions and experiences although, there is always the possibility of being > mistaken, tricked or wrong. I may say, shut the window, the > draft is annoying, and my friend will say, the window is closed, the breeze > is coming in through the door. My knowing was wrong. > One knows something is this sense, directly, immediately, by experience. To > answer the question, how do you know that you are sitting in a chair > becomes difficult. The question is itself simple in construction and easy to ask, > but the simplest complete answer becomes difficult. One answer is to say, I > don't know how I know. How do you really describe how you > know you are sitting in or on a chair? Another way into an answer is to > say, what I know, I know for myself although I may be mistaken about some > things. You may test this out on yourself and try to write out how you know the > simplest most direct things to test the difficulty. > Another answer is to say, I just know and resist further challenges. > I suppose my answer, out of all the possible answers is to say, I know as I > know everything else that I know. > You probably have to allow that there are some things you and others, do > actually know, or if you take an extreme position, say we can't really know > anything, even that you are sitting on a chair. I feel very modest in these > things and I am not an extremist so I would resist taking the discussion into a > complex tangle of possibilities. I'm not that concerned about what others say > or think about my view of things although I am willing to share that view > and wiggle around a bit, as we have already done once. I'm really not > concerned about the argument. I'm to busy writing poems, making art and living an > ordinary life as a sub teacher. I am also searching for a job teacher art at a > college. > Anyway, to call my approach a conviction is not agreeable. I have no > conviction because I do not try to defend a position, I really don't care much what > you think about it. You have your own life to live from within yourself and > that's your particular struggle. I'll help a bit, but you have to figure it > out yourself. It will take more than my few words for you to understand > your own situation, and there is a lot of literature and certainly the writings > of the Maharaj and others. Have you read Alan Watts? Wonderful guy, and > then there's Ekhart Tolle to deal with. > You will have your own experiences and come to your own conclusions and > transformations as you go along. > Anyhow, I- know -your question has provided me an occasion to have another > good time, and I thank you for that. > > Sincerely, > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Larry, You wrote, " I only " know " what is immediate, can be perceived, experienced. " Now, let's go back to your claim that there is an Infinite Life Being expressing Itself and experiencing life through me and you, as through everyone else. Do you really know this for certain? Perhaps you are merely experiencing a concept. I do not deny the fact that you are having that experience but does your experience make your concept true? There's nothing wrong with your concept; it's really quite a beautiful one. However, I must ask you why you feel the need to hold on to it so tightly. What are you afraid might happen if you let go of it? Silver Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 12/21/2005 7:07:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, > silver-1069@h... writes: > > > > > Silver: Larry, how do you know you are experiencing reality as > > reality? Does your own conviction make it so? > > > > Larry: Knowing and how you/I know something is a wiggly concept. I use the > > word " know " in a very limited way. I only " know " what is immediate, can be > > perceived, experienced. That's the way I use it. It is true that a person can > > be tricked or fooled into accepting something as known, that then turns out > > to be a fake, a trick, but my quess is that that seldom happens in ordinary > > life. > > You don't know if your car is still out on the street. You don't know if > > your book is on the shelf in the other room, but you can know that you are > > sitting on a chair. You can know that you smell the rice burning in the other > > room, you can know if the lights are on or off. Usually. > > I know how I feel. Whether I have a headache or an upset stomach. I know > > if I feel hot or cold, or if a breeze is coming in through the window. I can > > look and see if a window is open or closed. I can also know what I am > > thinking about, whether I feel worried, or tense, or relaxed. > > In these things, I can have the experience of knowing. In this way, the > > word know or knowing is rather limited, yet sufficient to describe certain > > perceptions and experiences although, there is always the possibility of being > > mistaken, tricked or wrong. I may say, shut the window, the > > draft is annoying, and my friend will say, the window is closed, the breeze > > is coming in through the door. My knowing was wrong. > > One knows something is this sense, directly, immediately, by experience. To > > answer the question, how do you know that you are sitting in a chair > > becomes difficult. The question is itself simple in construction and easy to ask, > > but the simplest complete answer becomes difficult. One answer is to say, I > > don't know how I know. How do you really describe how you > > know you are sitting in or on a chair? Another way into an answer is to > > say, what I know, I know for myself although I may be mistaken about some > > things. You may test this out on yourself and try to write out how you know the > > simplest most direct things to test the difficulty. > > Another answer is to say, I just know and resist further challenges. > > I suppose my answer, out of all the possible answers is to say, I know as I > > know everything else that I know. > > You probably have to allow that there are some things you and others, do > > actually know, or if you take an extreme position, say we can't really know > > anything, even that you are sitting on a chair. I feel very modest in these > > things and I am not an extremist so I would resist taking the discussion into a > > complex tangle of possibilities. I'm not that concerned about what others say > > or think about my view of things although I am willing to share that view > > and wiggle around a bit, as we have already done once. I'm really not > > concerned about the argument. I'm to busy writing poems, making art and living an > > ordinary life as a sub teacher. I am also searching for a job teacher art at a > > college. > > Anyway, to call my approach a conviction is not agreeable. I have no > > conviction because I do not try to defend a position, I really don't care much what > > you think about it. You have your own life to live from within yourself and > > that's your particular struggle. I'll help a bit, but you have to figure it > > out yourself. It will take more than my few words for you to understand > > your own situation, and there is a lot of literature and certainly the writings > > of the Maharaj and others. Have you read Alan Watts? Wonderful guy, and > > then there's Ekhart Tolle to deal with. > > You will have your own experiences and come to your own conclusions and > > transformations as you go along. > > Anyhow, I- know -your question has provided me an occasion to have another > > good time, and I thank you for that. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Larry Epston > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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