Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Subj: Re: Knowing Reality 12/22/2005 2:41:51 AM Pacific Standard Time silver-1069 Reply-to: Nisargadatta Nisargadatta Sent from the Internet (Details) Larry, You wrote, " I only " know " what is immediate, can be perceived, experienced. " Now, let's go back to your claim that there is an Infinite Life Being expressing Itself and experiencing life through me and you, as through everyone else. Do you really know this for certain? Perhaps you are merely experiencing a concept. I do not deny the fact that you are having that experience but does your experience make your concept true? There's nothing wrong with your concept; it's really quite a beautiful one. However, I must ask you why you feel the need to hold on to it so tightly. What are you afraid might happen if you let go of it? Hi! I answered this in my last post to you in trying to deal with the idea or experience of " knowing. " We can go around again with the idea of " certain. " I am as certain as I can be. As certain as I am about anything else I am certain about. How certain can one get? About anything? I am an ordinary person, living an ordinary life. You cannot identify me as a weird, out of the ordinary kind of person whose word cannot be trusted. I'm not sure that a person can experience a concept at all. Can a concept be experienced? You tell me. Let's assume that a concept cannot be experienced so that brings us back to whether any person's experience is true, and what that means? I think that your questions is really, how does my experience apply to you and if it's true for me, is it true for you. I'm not sure if my truth can ever be anothers. If I say to you, I am sitting on a chair, will you accept it as truth? Well first it depends whether you are in the room or not. If you are not in the room, and we are talking on the phone, you may accept it or not,depending on certain factors. If you are in the room and deny that I am sitting in a chair when I claim I am, we have a real problem of perception that probably can't be solved. You will say I am not, and I will say I am, and that's as far as it can go. When you are saying, " There's nothing wrong with your concept, " you are assuming my view of things is a concept and not a real actual experience, so you don't trust me in that sense. It's like I'm sitting in a chair, and you are in the room and tell me I just have a concept of sitting in the chair. Who is correct? Will you trust me, or take my word and thus undermine your own view of the situation? As indicated by this interchange, you probably will not accept my view of the situation, and say I only have a concept of sitting in a chair, but to you, I am standing, and there is no chair. As far as " holding on to it so tightly " you are again asserting that I am trapped in a concept and am not having a real experience of reality. " What are you afraid might happen if you let go of it, " again assumes I am holding on to something. I'm not aware of holding on to anything. My perceptions that you are questioning emerged some twenty or more years ago, and I have hardly ever discussed it with anyone. It's so nice to have this format to express myself, but I am dismayed at the unpleasantness from some people. What is bothering you so much that I experience life the way I am? If you were a Christian, you would be experiencing life in a way that is very peculiar to me, and I could be asking you the same kind of questions. Like, how are you certain that Jesus died for your sins, prove it. But I don't depend on faith or belief, I simply see things the way I do. It's really quite strange, but to me, quite obvious. Just as a person can have a conversation in their mind with various parts of themselves, will I or won't I, am I or am I not, etc., you and I are doing the same thing. Two parts of my self are having a conversation, you and I, but outside of our body, rather than inside. I am arguing with myself, you, over this issue. The argument is, really, are you part of me or not. You say you are not, and I say you are. Whether you are or not changes nothing, you are still you and I am still I as we are both part of the same Life. This may seen like a contradiction, but contradictions can still be true. And in the end, you are still doubting, challenging, and unwilling to accept what I know as true, and that is your choice. No problem. Sincerely, Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2005 Report Share Posted December 22, 2005 Silver: " Now, let's go back to your claim that there is an Infinite Life Being expressing Itself and experiencing life through me and you, as through everyone else. Do you really know this for certain? " Larry: " As certain as I am about anything else I am certain about. " Silver: " Perhaps you are merely experiencing a concept. " Larry: " I'm not sure that a person can experience a concept at all. Can a concept be experienced? " Silver: Any intelligent human being can experience the mental process of organizing and interpreting sensory information. It's called forming a concept. In forming your concept of an Infinite Life Being living vicariously through people, your brain has gathered sensory data from somewhere. I suspect its source is something you read somewhere or something someone told you at one time or another. A concept survives only if you give it attention and thereby impress it firmly into your memory. Your concept of an Infinite Life Being living in you is but a memory of something you learned in time. Larry: " I think that your question is really, how does my experience apply to you and if it's true for me, is it true for you. I'm not sure if my truth can ever be anothers. " Silver: No doubt many other people entertain the same notion and hold onto it as tightly as you do. Larry: " When you are saying, " There's nothing wrong with your concept, " you are assuming my view of things is a concept and not a real actual experience, so you don't trust me in that sense. " Silver: I don't doubt that you are having that experience, Larry. And I'm not saying you are wrong for having it. But it is a fact that your brain has formulated a concept in which you believe strongly. It pleases you to hold on to it and you fear the forgetting of it. You identify yourself with a concept. If you let go of it, along with all your mental constructs, your false identity would have to go with it, too. ---- > Hi! > > I answered this in my last post to you in trying to deal with the idea or > experience of " knowing. " We can go around again with the idea of " certain. " I > am as certain as I can be. As certain as I am about anything else I am certain > about. How certain can one get? About anything? I am an ordinary person, > living an ordinary life. You cannot identify me as a weird, out of the ordinary > kind of person whose word cannot be trusted. > I'm not sure that a person can experience a concept at all. Can a concept be > experienced? You tell me. Let's assume that a concept cannot be experienced > so that brings us back to whether any person's experience is true, and what > that means? I think that your questions is really, how does my experience > apply to you and if it's true for me, is it true for you. > I'm not sure if my truth can ever be anothers. If I say to you, I am sitting > on a chair, will you accept it as truth? Well first it depends whether you > are in the room or not. If you are not in the room, and we are talking on the > phone, you may accept it or not,depending on certain factors. If you are in > the room and deny that I am sitting in a chair when I claim I am, we have a real > problem of perception that probably can't be solved. You will say I am not, > and I will say I am, and that's as far as it can go. When you are saying, > " There's nothing wrong with your concept, " you are assuming my view of things is a > concept and not a real actual experience, so you don't trust me in that > sense. > It's like I'm sitting in a chair, and you are in the room and tell me I just > have a concept of sitting in the chair. Who is correct? Will you trust me, or > take my word and thus undermine your own view of the situation? As indicated > by this interchange, you probably will not accept my view of the situation, > and say I only have a concept of sitting in a chair, but to you, I am standing, > and there is no chair. > As far as " holding on to it so tightly " you are again asserting that I am > trapped in a concept and am not having a real experience of reality. " What are > you afraid might happen if you let go of it, " again assumes I am holding on to > something. I'm not aware of holding on to anything. My perceptions that you > are questioning emerged some twenty or more years ago, and I have hardly ever > discussed it with anyone. It's so nice to have this format to express myself, > but I am dismayed at the unpleasantness from some people. > What is bothering you so much that I experience life the way I am? If you > were a Christian, you would be experiencing life in a way that is very peculiar > to me, and I could be asking you the same kind of questions. Like, how are > you certain that Jesus died for your sins, prove it. But I don't depend on > faith or belief, I simply see things the way I do. It's really quite strange, but > to me, quite obvious. Just as a person can have a conversation in their > mind with various parts of themselves, will I or won't I, am I or am I not, etc., > you and I are doing the same thing. Two parts of my self are having a > conversation, you and I, but outside of our body, rather than inside. I am arguing > with myself, you, over this issue. The argument is, really, are you part of > me or not. You say you are not, and I say you are. Whether you are or not > changes nothing, you are still you and I am still I as we are both part of the > same Life. > This may seen like a contradiction, but contradictions can still be true. > And in the end, you are still doubting, challenging, and unwilling to accept > what I know as true, and that is your choice. > No problem. > > Sincerely, > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.