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I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way to experience

a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those with busy

competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a relief to their

thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit from the whirl of

spinning thoughts and concerns.

If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or better, a

meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll bet most smokers

are not meditators.

 

Larry Epston

www.epston.com

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

>

> I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way to

experience

> a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those with

busy

> competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a relief

to their

> thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit from

the whirl of

> spinning thoughts and concerns.

> If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or

better, a

> meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll bet

most smokers

> are not meditators.

>

> Larry Epston

> www.epston.com

>

>

yes.....good point

 

some even " smoke " their Satguru....:)

 

Marc

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Larry,

 

There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-smokers.

 

I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and the more I

feel frustrated the less I smoke.

 

A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

 

Werner

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

>

> I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way to

experience

> a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those with

busy

> competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a relief

to their

> thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit from

the whirl of

> spinning thoughts and concerns.

> If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or

better, a

> meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll bet

most smokers

> are not meditators.

>

> Larry Epston

> www.epston.com

>

>

>

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

>

 

Werner,

 

so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the frustrated

smokers get cancer because of frustration....

 

.....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

 

sorry....i'm joking

 

Marc

 

 

> Larry,

>

> There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-smokers.

>

> I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and the more

I

> feel frustrated the less I smoke.

>

> A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

>

> Werner

 

 

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> >

> > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way

to

> experience

> > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those

with

> busy

> > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

relief

> to their

> > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

from

> the whirl of

> > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or

> better, a

> > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll

bet

> most smokers

> > are not meditators.

> >

> > Larry Epston

> > www.epston.com

> >

> >

> >

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Marc,

 

Not every smoker gets cancern. I depends on how early you started,

what you eat (garbage or fruit and vegetables), if you drink alcohol,

if you do sports, and - not to forget fate.

 

I started smoking at a time when doing body-building in a studio. One

day the owner of that studio caught me when standing outside smoking

and he kicked me out of his place :)

 

Werner

 

 

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> wrote:

> >

>

> Werner,

>

> so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

frustrated

> smokers get cancer because of frustration....

>

> ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

>

> sorry....i'm joking

>

> Marc

>

>

> > Larry,

> >

> > There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-smokers.

> >

> > I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and the

more

> I

> > feel frustrated the less I smoke.

> >

> > A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

> >

> > Werner

>

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > >

> > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way

> to

> > experience

> > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those

> with

> > busy

> > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

> relief

> > to their

> > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

> from

> > the whirl of

> > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower

or

> > better, a

> > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll

> bet

> > most smokers

> > > are not meditators.

> > >

> > > Larry Epston

> > > www.epston.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

 

Werner,

 

....and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

 

yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many things of

life-attitudes....

 

Marc

 

> Marc,

>

> Not every smoker gets cancern. I depends on how early you started,

> what you eat (garbage or fruit and vegetables), if you drink

alcohol,

> if you do sports, and - not to forget fate.

>

> I started smoking at a time when doing body-building in a studio.

One

> day the owner of that studio caught me when standing outside

smoking

> and he kicked me out of his place :)

>

> Werner

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> > wrote:

> > >

> >

> > Werner,

> >

> > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> frustrated

> > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> >

> > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

> >

> > sorry....i'm joking

> >

> > Marc

> >

> >

> > > Larry,

> > >

> > > There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-smokers.

> > >

> > > I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and the

> more

> > I

> > > feel frustrated the less I smoke.

> > >

> > > A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

> > >

> > > Werner

> >

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A

way

> > to

> > > experience

> > > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration.

Those

> > with

> > > busy

> > > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

> > relief

> > > to their

> > > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

> > from

> > > the whirl of

> > > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold

shower

> or

> > > better, a

> > > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation.

I'll

> > bet

> > > most smokers

> > > > are not meditators.

> > > >

> > > > Larry Epston

> > > > www.epston.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

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Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote:

>

>

> -

> dennis_travis33

> Nisargadatta

> Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:22 AM

> Re: Smoking

>

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> >

> > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way

to

> experience

> > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those

with

> busy

> > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

relief

> to their

> > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

from

> the whirl of

> > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower

or

> better, a

> > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll

bet

> most smokers

> > are not meditators.

> >

> > Larry Epston

> > www.epston.com

> >

> >

> yes.....good point

>

> some even " smoke " their Satguru....:)

 

 

everything can be a form of meditation when done with consciousness.

so...good meditation!

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Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...>

wrote:

> >

> >

> > -

> > dennis_travis33

> > Nisargadatta

> > Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:22 AM

> > Re: Smoking

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > >

> > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A

way

> to

> > experience

> > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration.

Those

> with

> > busy

> > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

> relief

> > to their

> > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

> from

> > the whirl of

> > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold

shower

> or

> > better, a

> > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation.

I'll

> bet

> > most smokers

> > > are not meditators.

> > >

> > > Larry Epston

> > > www.epston.com

> > >

> > >

> > yes.....good point

> >

> > some even " smoke " their Satguru....:)

>

>

> everything can be a form of meditation when done with consciousness.

> so...good meditation!

 

yes.....consciousness Is the form of

being.....whatever......however.....whenever....

 

this form is changing all the time......

 

awareness ....or .....just being the witness.....let one meditate in

every action.....

 

even, if you want, ....in smoking the Satguru

 

Marc

 

PS: Werner is expert of everything concerning " consciousness " ......

i bow to the feet of Werner for his " experience and understand "

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

>

 

Werner,

 

i have to admit that i took some time to learn about this your

technique......but good that you have this positive side in you

 

Marc

 

 

> Marc,

>

> You got it !

>

> I am here to have my late revenge by kicking some poor members of

> this list - epsecially those wo constantly have their mouth full of

> positivisms :)

>

> Werner

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > Werner,

> >

> > ...and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

> > out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

> >

> > yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many things

of

> > life-attitudes....

> >

> > Marc

> >

> > > Marc,

> > >

> > > Not every smoker gets cancern. I depends on how early you

> started,

> > > what you eat (garbage or fruit and vegetables), if you drink

> > alcohol,

> > > if you do sports, and - not to forget fate.

> > >

> > > I started smoking at a time when doing body-building in a

studio.

> > One

> > > day the owner of that studio caught me when standing outside

> > smoking

> > > and he kicked me out of his place :)

> > >

> > > Werner

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr "

> <wwoehr@p...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Werner,

> > > >

> > > > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> > > frustrated

> > > > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> > > >

> > > > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or

> frustrated....?...

> > > >

> > > > sorry....i'm joking

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Larry,

> > > > >

> > > > > There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-

> smokers.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and

> the

> > > more

> > > > I

> > > > > feel frustrated the less I smoke.

> > > > >

> > > > > A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

> > > > >

> > > > > Werner

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation.

A

> > way

> > > > to

> > > > > experience

> > > > > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration.

> > Those

> > > > with

> > > > > busy

> > > > > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment

as

> a

> > > > relief

> > > > > to their

> > > > > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a

> bit

> > > > from

> > > > > the whirl of

> > > > > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > > > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold

> > shower

> > > or

> > > > > better, a

> > > > > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation.

> > I'll

> > > > bet

> > > > > most smokers

> > > > > > are not meditators.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Larry Epston

> > > > > > www.epston.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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oh lord, we're in trouble now,

we found a positive aspect

in " werner " . damn drat and double damn.

 

;-)

-

dennis_travis33

Nisargadatta

Thursday, January 05, 2006 6:16 AM

Re: Smoking

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

>

 

Werner,

 

i have to admit that i took some time to learn about this your

technique......but good that you have this positive side in you

 

Marc

 

 

> Marc,

>

> You got it !

>

> I am here to have my late revenge by kicking some poor members of

> this list - epsecially those wo constantly have their mouth full of

> positivisms :)

>

> Werner

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > Werner,

> >

> > ...and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

> > out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

> >

> > yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many things

of

> > life-attitudes....

> >

> > Marc

> >

> > > Marc,

> > >

> > > Not every smoker gets cancern. I depends on how early you

> started,

> > > what you eat (garbage or fruit and vegetables), if you drink

> > alcohol,

> > > if you do sports, and - not to forget fate.

> > >

> > > I started smoking at a time when doing body-building in a

studio.

> > One

> > > day the owner of that studio caught me when standing outside

> > smoking

> > > and he kicked me out of his place :)

> > >

> > > Werner

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr "

> <wwoehr@p...>

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Werner,

> > > >

> > > > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> > > frustrated

> > > > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> > > >

> > > > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or

> frustrated....?...

> > > >

> > > > sorry....i'm joking

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > Larry,

> > > > >

> > > > > There are two kinds of smohers, lust-smokers and frust-

> smokers.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am a lust-smoher. The better I feel the more I smoke and

> the

> > > more

> > > > I

> > > > > feel frustrated the less I smoke.

> > > > >

> > > > > A frust-smoker smokes more when feeling frustrated.

> > > > >

> > > > > Werner

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation.

A

> > way

> > > > to

> > > > > experience

> > > > > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration.

> > Those

> > > > with

> > > > > busy

> > > > > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment

as

> a

> > > > relief

> > > > > to their

> > > > > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a

> bit

> > > > from

> > > > > the whirl of

> > > > > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > > > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold

> > shower

> > > or

> > > > > better, a

> > > > > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation.

> > I'll

> > > > bet

> > > > > most smokers

> > > > > > are not meditators.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Larry Epston

> > > > > > www.epston.com

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

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Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba>

wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...>

> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > -

> > > dennis_travis33

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:22 AM

> > > Re: Smoking

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A

> way

> > to

> > > experience

> > > > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration.

> Those

> > with

> > > busy

> > > > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as

a

> > relief

> > > to their

> > > > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a

bit

> > from

> > > the whirl of

> > > > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > > > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold

> shower

> > or

> > > better, a

> > > > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation.

> I'll

> > bet

> > > most smokers

> > > > are not meditators.

> > > >

> > > > Larry Epston

> > > > www.epston.com

> > > >

> > > >

> > > yes.....good point

> > >

> > > some even " smoke " their Satguru....:)

> >

> >

> > everything can be a form of meditation when done with

consciousness.

> > so...good meditation!

>

> yes.....consciousness Is the form of

> being.....whatever......however.....whenever....

>

> this form is changing all the time......

>

> awareness ....or .....just being the witness.....let one meditate

in

> every action.....

>

> even, if you want, ....in smoking the Satguru

>

> Marc

>

> PS: Werner is expert of everything concerning " consciousness " ......

> i bow to the feet of Werner for his " experience and understand "

>

 

lol

 

thank you dear marc for sharing with yourSelf!

love

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Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

>

> I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way to

experience

> a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those with

busy

> competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a relief

to their

> thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit from

the whirl of

> spinning thoughts and concerns.

> If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or

better, a

> meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll bet

most smokers

> are not meditators.

>

> Larry Epston

> www.epston.com

 

At times, I do smoke in quiet contemplation, yes. I go deep into

thought at these times. On other occasions, I smoke to reduce stress

and to stop thinking. More often, I smoke to satisfy my craving for

nicotine. Mostly, I smoke out of habit.

 

While your suggestion to take a hot bath or a cold shower instead of

smoking might seem like a good one, I would find it impractical and

too time consuming for my lifestyle.

 

I meditate every day for about a half hour. As soon as I finish, I

reach for a smoke, dammit.

 

The more I think about it, perhaps the cold shower would work best.

One cannot smoke in the shower. I would have difficulty convincing

my boss, however, that I need to go home to take a cold shower.

 

" Silver "

 

>

>

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lol

 

thank you!

 

this can be taken as a golden rule:

everything taht can be performed under a shower is good and pure!

 

 

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069@h...> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote:

> >

> > I wonder if smoking isn't actually a form of meditation. A way

to

> experience

> > a quiet time, a moment of reflection and concentration. Those

with

> busy

> > competitive states of mind might use the smoking moment as a

relief

> to their

> > thinking, where thinking stops, and they get relief for a bit

from

> the whirl of

> > spinning thoughts and concerns.

> > If that is so, a smoker might try a hot bath, or a cold shower or

> better, a

> > meditation period to get the same relief and relaxation. I'll

bet

> most smokers

> > are not meditators.

> >

> > Larry Epston

> > www.epston.com

>

> At times, I do smoke in quiet contemplation, yes. I go deep into

> thought at these times. On other occasions, I smoke to reduce

stress

> and to stop thinking. More often, I smoke to satisfy my craving

for

> nicotine. Mostly, I smoke out of habit.

>

> While your suggestion to take a hot bath or a cold shower instead

of

> smoking might seem like a good one, I would find it impractical and

> too time consuming for my lifestyle.

>

> I meditate every day for about a half hour. As soon as I finish, I

> reach for a smoke, dammit.

>

> The more I think about it, perhaps the cold shower would work

best.

> One cannot smoke in the shower. I would have difficulty convincing

> my boss, however, that I need to go home to take a cold shower.

>

> " Silver "

>

> >

> >

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Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

 

> so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the frustrated

> smokers get cancer because of frustration....

>

> ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

>

> sorry....i'm joking

>

> Marc

 

Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a strong

link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt, one's

health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove wiser

not to start.

 

Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what causes

smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and lust

have a strong influence. We could look into those factors instead.

 

How do frustration and lust arise?

 

" Silver "

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

>

> Marc,

>

> Not every smoker gets cancern. I depends on how early you started,

> what you eat (garbage or fruit and vegetables), if you drink

alcohol,

> if you do sports, and - not to forget fate.

>

> I started smoking at a time when doing body-building in a studio.

One

> day the owner of that studio caught me when standing outside smoking

> and he kicked me out of his place :)

>

> Werner

 

I started smoking at 12 yrs; I rarely eat fruits or vegetables; I

drink beer; and I never excercise.

 

Uh-oh....

 

" Silver "

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Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069@h...> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

frustrated

> > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> >

> > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

> >

> > sorry....i'm joking

> >

> > Marc

>

> Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a

strong

> link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt,

one's

> health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove

wiser

> not to start.

>

> Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what

causes

> smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and

lust

> have a strong influence. We could look into those factors instead.

>

> How do frustration and lust arise?

>

> " Silver "

 

 

maybe both are caused by busy and emotional life.....filled up with

endless expectations.....and so, also filled up.....with endless

unfulfilled expectations

 

Marc

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Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> wrote:

>

> Werner,

>

> ...and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

> out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

>

> yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many things of

> life-attitudes....

>

> Marc

 

Attitude toward life: I find that interesting. What sort of attitude

do non-smokers enjoy that smokers don't? I ask that question

sincerely because I believe you might have a valid point here.

 

" Silver "

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Silver, let me try,

 

Lust arise when I see a beautiful girl and frust arises if I don't

get her.

 

When sex was good the lust-smoker will smoke after the act and when

it was not good then it's the turn of the frust-smoekr :)

 

Werner

 

 

Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069@h...> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

frustrated

> > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> >

> > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

> >

> > sorry....i'm joking

> >

> > Marc

>

> Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a

strong

> link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt,

one's

> health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove

wiser

> not to start.

>

> Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what

causes

> smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and

lust

> have a strong influence. We could look into those factors instead.

>

> How do frustration and lust arise?

>

> " Silver "

>

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Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

1069@h...> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

> > wrote:

> >

> > Werner,

> >

> > ...and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

> > out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

> >

> > yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many things

of

> > life-attitudes....

> >

> > Marc

>

> Attitude toward life: I find that interesting. What sort of

attitude

> do non-smokers enjoy that smokers don't? I ask that question

> sincerely because I believe you might have a valid point here.

>

> " Silver "

 

 

difficult to answer.....

 

i think that the consumation of cigarettes, alcool, coffee....or all

other kind of drugs

have the effect that during this period of time.....the body-mind-

intellect get a " nice break " .....even in most stressful situations

 

we are evoluating kind of....in " experiences and knowledge " .....no

way out of this " inner path " ........the witness of Self.....don't

give any real break.......

 

the identification with body-mind-intellect let one believe sometimes

that the path and choices can be decided freely..... " individual " .....

 

this is an illusion.....and so the frustration of not getting any

real " answer and inner progress " to this " individual " choices.....let

people develop the tendency..... " to have a break " .....

 

drugs give this break....on all levels of being....

 

maybe this drugs can be helpfull to don't follow so constantly false

decisions and making " unnessary experiences " .....

 

but they also don't let the body-mind-intellect develop in

spirituality....means, in Self-Realization

 

Realized people are no more of an identification with body-mind-

intellect.....no more on any path.......except " to be here and

now " .....

 

to live in " here and now " ....is constantly having " a break " ......

maybe the influence of drugs don't make any change to this realized

people

 

so when you have deepest wish to progress in spirituality.......then

there is no " demand " (order) of the body-mind-intellect....to use

drugs.....or only in limited quantity

 

....this are only few thoughts.....and ideas....

 

Marc

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Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> frustrated

> > > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> > >

> > > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or

frustrated....?...

> > >

> > > sorry....i'm joking

> > >

> > > Marc

> >

> > Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a

> strong

> > link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt,

> one's

> > health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove

> wiser

> > not to start.

> >

> > Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what

> causes

> > smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and

> lust

> > have a strong influence. We could look into those factors

instead.

> >

> > How do frustration and lust arise?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

>

> maybe both are caused by busy and emotional life.....filled up with

> endless expectations.....and so, also filled up.....with endless

> unfulfilled expectations

>

> Marc

>

 

Expectations: Yes! I want to use the word 'anticipation' with

that. Let's see. The image I have in mind of me smoking comes from

past experience with it. Smoking has yeilded mental and physical

pleasure and satisfaction for me in the past. Based on this memory-

image, I anticipate that the same will result in the future. This

memory has etched itself deeply in my mind because of repeated

pleasurable and satisfying experiences with smoking. Since I have

never had a negative experience with smoking, I continue to smoke and

fulfill my exepectation that positive results will show up.

 

Solution: Replace positive memory-image with a negative one. How?

 

One time, I decided to try chewing tobacco. It literally made me

vomit. Lol. I had to pull the car over, open the door and

everything. Just thinking about it makes me feel a little queezy!

As a result, I know I will never again chew tobacco. I hold a very

negative image-memory in my mind of that experience.

 

How can I replace the positive memory-image I have of smoking when it

has repeatedly reinforced itself in my mind over so much time? It

ssems that I would need to do something radical here. Perhaps if I

rent a motel room for a night, bring along a carton of cigarettes

with me, and smoke one cigarette after another until I vomit will

help to replace the positive memory-image-experience with a negative

one.

 

I need to light a cigarette now and consider that.

 

" Silver "

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Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...>

wrote:

>

> Silver, let me try,

>

> Lust arise when I see a beautiful girl and frust arises if I don't

> get her.

>

> When sex was good the lust-smoker will smoke after the act and when

> it was not good then it's the turn of the frust-smoekr :)

>

> Werner

 

Lol. Very funny. So, as a lust-smoker, what do you do if the sex

did not satisfy you? Try again? Hehe.

 

Would that mean that a frust-smoker would deliberately sabotage the

sexual experience?

 

:)

 

" Silver "

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Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr "

<wwoehr@p...>

> > > wrote:

> > >

> > > Werner,

> > >

> > > ...and then you came here...to this " studio " .....to " kick

> > > out " ....sometimes.....somebody........(joking)

> > >

> > > yes....not every smoker gets cancer....it depends on many

things

> of

> > > life-attitudes....

> > >

> > > Marc

> >

> > Attitude toward life: I find that interesting. What sort of

> attitude

> > do non-smokers enjoy that smokers don't? I ask that question

> > sincerely because I believe you might have a valid point here.

> >

> > " Silver "

>

>

> difficult to answer.....

>

> i think that the consumation of cigarettes, alcool, coffee....or

all

> other kind of drugs

> have the effect that during this period of time.....the body-mind-

> intellect get a " nice break " .....even in most stressful situations

>

> we are evoluating kind of....in " experiences and knowledge " .....no

> way out of this " inner path " ........the witness of Self.....don't

> give any real break.......

>

> the identification with body-mind-intellect let one believe

sometimes

> that the path and choices can be decided

freely..... " individual " .....

>

> this is an illusion.....and so the frustration of not getting any

> real " answer and inner progress " to this " individual "

choices.....let

> people develop the tendency..... " to have a break " .....

>

> drugs give this break....on all levels of being....

>

> maybe this drugs can be helpfull to don't follow so constantly

false

> decisions and making " unnessary experiences " .....

>

> but they also don't let the body-mind-intellect develop in

> spirituality....means, in Self-Realization

>

> Realized people are no more of an identification with body-mind-

> intellect.....no more on any path.......except " to be here and

> now " .....

>

> to live in " here and now " ....is constantly having " a break " ......

> maybe the influence of drugs don't make any change to this realized

> people

>

> so when you have deepest wish to progress in

spirituality.......then

> there is no " demand " (order) of the body-mind-intellect....to use

> drugs.....or only in limited quantity

>

> ...this are only few thoughts.....and ideas....

>

> Marc

>

 

Interesting perspective. Thank you. When and if I ever Self-

Realize, I shall know what you mean.

 

" Silver "

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-

s_i_l_v_e_r1069

Nisargadatta

Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:12 PM

Re: Smoking

 

 

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> 1069@h...> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> frustrated

> > > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> > >

> > > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or

frustrated....?...

> > >

> > > sorry....i'm joking

> > >

> > > Marc

> >

> > Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a

> strong

> > link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt,

> one's

> > health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove

> wiser

> > not to start.

> >

> > Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what

> causes

> > smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and

> lust

> > have a strong influence. We could look into those factors

instead.

> >

> > How do frustration and lust arise?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

>

> maybe both are caused by busy and emotional life.....filled up with

> endless expectations.....and so, also filled up.....with endless

> unfulfilled expectations

>

> Marc

>

 

Expectations: Yes! I want to use the word 'anticipation' with

that. Let's see. The image I have in mind of me smoking comes from

past experience with it. Smoking has yeilded mental and physical

pleasure and satisfaction for me in the past. Based on this memory-

image, I anticipate that the same will result in the future. This

memory has etched itself deeply in my mind because of repeated

pleasurable and satisfying experiences with smoking. Since I have

never had a negative experience with smoking, I continue to smoke and

fulfill my exepectation that positive results will show up.

 

Solution: Replace positive memory-image with a negative one. How?

 

One time, I decided to try chewing tobacco. It literally made me

vomit. Lol. I had to pull the car over, open the door and

everything. Just thinking about it makes me feel a little queezy!

As a result, I know I will never again chew tobacco. I hold a very

negative image-memory in my mind of that experience.

 

How can I replace the positive memory-image I have of smoking when it

has repeatedly reinforced itself in my mind over so much time? It

ssems that I would need to do something radical here. Perhaps if I

rent a motel room for a night, bring along a carton of cigarettes

with me, and smoke one cigarette after another until I vomit will

help to replace the positive memory-image-experience with a negative

one.

 

I need to light a cigarette now and consider that.

 

" Silver "

 

Interesting this thing, habit. My father started smoking in Germany, thanks

to free cigarettes

passed out by GI's. My mother too, but she quit when I was born. Her promise

kept to God, she

wanted a girl. My father developed emphysema, 3 pack a day Lucky Strikes. He

quit when he needed

Oxygen. I've known friends, clients who carried oxygen tanks and smoked. I

quit cold turkey 28 or so

yrs. ago thanks to my ego, I didn't want to an older ;-) woman with a

cigarette dangling from her mouth.

 

The search for the truth of enlightenment ;-) comes in all sorts of packages,

called desire and aversion.

 

Ana

 

 

 

 

 

 

**

 

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription,

sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

 

/mygroups?edit=1

 

Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta

group and click on Save Changes.

 

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

" s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069

Re: Smoking

 

Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

<dennis_travis33> wrote:

 

> so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the frustrated

> smokers get cancer because of frustration....

>

> ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or frustrated....?...

>

> sorry....i'm joking

>

> Marc

 

Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found a strong

link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No doubt, one's

health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would prove wiser

not to start.

 

Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what causes

smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration and lust

have a strong influence. We could look into those factors instead.

 

How do frustration and lust arise?

 

" Silver "

 

 

 

 

Desire and the frustration of desire?

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote:

>

>

> -

> s_i_l_v_e_r1069

> Nisargadatta

> Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:12 PM

> Re: Smoking

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-

> > 1069@h...> wrote:

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 "

> > > <dennis_travis33> wrote:

> > >

> > > > so the lust-smokers get cancer because of lust....and the

> > frustrated

> > > > smokers get cancer because of frustration....

> > > >

> > > > ....maybe except if they feel rarely lust....or

> frustrated....?...

> > > >

> > > > sorry....i'm joking

> > > >

> > > > Marc

> > >

> > > Non smokers get cancer, too. I don't think science has found

a

> > strong

> > > link between smoking and getting cancer, have they? No

doubt,

> > one's

> > > health can deteriorate over time from smoking and it would

prove

> > wiser

> > > not to start.

> > >

> > > Instead of getting into what causes cancer, looking into what

> > causes

> > > smoking would seem more useful. It appears that frustration

and

> > lust

> > > have a strong influence. We could look into those factors

> instead.

> > >

> > > How do frustration and lust arise?

> > >

> > > " Silver "

> >

> >

> > maybe both are caused by busy and emotional life.....filled up

with

> > endless expectations.....and so, also filled up.....with

endless

> > unfulfilled expectations

> >

> > Marc

> >

>

> Expectations: Yes! I want to use the word 'anticipation' with

> that. Let's see. The image I have in mind of me smoking comes

from

> past experience with it. Smoking has yeilded mental and physical

> pleasure and satisfaction for me in the past. Based on this

memory-

> image, I anticipate that the same will result in the future.

This

> memory has etched itself deeply in my mind because of repeated

> pleasurable and satisfying experiences with smoking. Since I

have

> never had a negative experience with smoking, I continue to smoke

and

> fulfill my exepectation that positive results will show up.

>

> Solution: Replace positive memory-image with a negative one.

How?

>

> One time, I decided to try chewing tobacco. It literally made me

> vomit. Lol. I had to pull the car over, open the door and

> everything. Just thinking about it makes me feel a little

queezy!

> As a result, I know I will never again chew tobacco. I hold a

very

> negative image-memory in my mind of that experience.

>

> How can I replace the positive memory-image I have of smoking

when it

> has repeatedly reinforced itself in my mind over so much time?

It

> ssems that I would need to do something radical here. Perhaps if

I

> rent a motel room for a night, bring along a carton of cigarettes

> with me, and smoke one cigarette after another until I vomit will

> help to replace the positive memory-image-experience with a

negative

> one.

>

> I need to light a cigarette now and consider that.

>

> " Silver "

>

> Interesting this thing, habit. My father started smoking in

Germany, thanks to free cigarettes

> passed out by GI's. My mother too, but she quit when I was

born. Her promise kept to God, she

> wanted a girl. My father developed emphysema, 3 pack a day Lucky

Strikes. He quit when he needed

> Oxygen. I've known friends, clients who carried oxygen tanks and

smoked. I quit cold turkey 28 or so

> yrs. ago thanks to my ego, I didn't want to an older ;-) woman

with a cigarette dangling from her mouth.

>

> The search for the truth of enlightenment ;-) comes in all sorts

of packages, called desire and aversion.

>

> Ana

 

Those oxygen tanks scare me. Whenever I see someone dragging an

oxygen tank around with them, I picture the tank as a large

cigarette. Or better yet, I envision cigarette package advertisement

painted on it. " Additive-Free Blend. Canadian Classics Extra Light. "

 

" Silver "

**

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

>

>

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