Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an ordinary person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and therefore preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust smoking is more than a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign of a backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is good as bad, seeing what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This is all perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go get some professional help. Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 this is your understanding, it is not going to help anyone else then you. thanks www.epston.com Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an ordinary > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and therefore > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust smoking is more than > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign of a > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is good as bad, seeing > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This is all > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go get some > professional help. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind constructs. And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a web- site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? Werner And you even can use an analysis to hide y Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an ordinary > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and therefore > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust smoking is more than > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign of a > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is good as bad, seeing > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This is all > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go get some > professional help. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what LOVE IS. it is so... Ana - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind constructs. And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a web- site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? Werner And you even can use an analysis to hide y Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an ordinary > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and therefore > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust smoking is more than > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign of a > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is good as bad, seeing > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This is all > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go get some > professional help. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Sorry Anna, The heart only is when you are not. Werner Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what LOVE IS. > > it is so... > > Ana > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind constructs. > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a web- > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > Werner > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an > ordinary > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > therefore > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust > smoking is more than > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign > of a > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is > good as bad, seeing > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This > is all > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go > get some > > professional help. > > > > Larry Epston > > www.epston.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yes, it is so... Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what LOVE IS. > > it is so... > > Ana > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind constructs. > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a web- > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > Werner > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an > ordinary > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > therefore > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust > smoking is more than > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign > of a > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is > good as bad, seeing > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This > is all > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go > get some > > professional help. > > > > Larry Epston > > www.epston.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 .... i'm not and still this is... is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Sorry Anna, > > The heart only is when you are not. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what > LOVE IS. > > > > it is so... > > > > Ana > > - > > Werner Woehr > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > constructs. > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a > web- > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > Werner > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what > an > > ordinary > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > > therefore > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust > > smoking is more than > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. > sign > > of a > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is > > good as bad, seeing > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. > This > > is all > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring > or go > > get some > > > professional help. > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 the heart is large enough to contain what is and what is not. another way to say: both Buddha and Christ live in One's heart nothing to be sorry about ;-) Ana - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:24 AM Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking Sorry Anna, The heart only is when you are not. Werner Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what LOVE IS. > > it is so... > > Ana > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind constructs. > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a web- > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > Werner > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an > ordinary > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > therefore > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust > smoking is more than > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign > of a > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is > good as bad, seeing > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This > is all > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go > get some > > professional help. > > > > Larry Epston > > www.epston.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Bigwaaba, Can you differ between heart and pathos ? Please always consider: Conscious virtue is vanity. If you are conscious of your positive feelings or activities then it is vanity. Werner Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > ... > > i'm not and still this is... > > is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Sorry Anna, > > > > The heart only is when you are not. > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey called > > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of what > > LOVE IS. > > > > > > it is so... > > > > > > Ana > > > - > > > Werner Woehr > > > Nisargadatta > > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > > constructs. > > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of a > > web- > > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of > what > > an > > > ordinary > > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are > frustrated. > > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > > > therefore > > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. > Lust > > > smoking is more than > > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. > > sign > > > of a > > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what > is > > > good as bad, seeing > > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as > unkind. > > This > > > is all > > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring > > or go > > > get some > > > > professional help. > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 interesting, i would say that pathos is the result of a resistance, that is in relation with some form of control. it may be useful, but it is not the bliss coming from a heart that is free. to be conscious is not to be in control Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Bigwaaba, > > Can you differ between heart and pathos ? > > Please always consider: Conscious virtue is vanity. > > If you are conscious of your positive feelings or activities then it > is vanity. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > ... > > > > i'm not and still this is... > > > > is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Sorry Anna, > > > > > > The heart only is when you are not. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey > called > > > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and love. > > > > > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of > what > > > LOVE IS. > > > > > > > > it is so... > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > - > > > > Werner Woehr > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > > > constructs. > > > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help of > a > > > web- > > > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of > > what > > > an > > > > ordinary > > > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are > > frustrated. > > > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and > > > > therefore > > > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. > > Lust > > > > smoking is more than > > > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more > severe. > > > sign > > > > of a > > > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing > what > > is > > > > good as bad, seeing > > > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as > > unkind. > > > This > > > > is all > > > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your > sufferring > > > or go > > > > get some > > > > > professional help. > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yes Bigw For example you feel utter happy. After a while you say " Wow, I am so happy " and what happens ? Happiness now fades away. Happiness was gone because YOU appeared. Because YOU got conscious of happiness. Pathos is when you want both: You AND happiness. Werner Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > interesting, > i would say that pathos is the result of a resistance, that is in > relation with some form of control. it may be useful, but it is not > the bliss coming from a heart that is free. > > to be conscious is not to be in control > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > Can you differ between heart and pathos ? > > > > Please always consider: Conscious virtue is vanity. > > > > If you are conscious of your positive feelings or activities then > it > > is vanity. > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > wrote: > > > > > > ... > > > > > > i'm not and still this is... > > > > > > is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry Anna, > > > > > > > > The heart only is when you are not. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > > > > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey > > called > > > > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and > love. > > > > > > > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of > > what > > > > LOVE IS. > > > > > > > > > > it is so... > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > - > > > > > Werner Woehr > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > > > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > > > > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > > > > constructs. > > > > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the help > of > > a > > > > web- > > > > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of > > > what > > > > an > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are > > > frustrated. > > > > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, > and > > > > > therefore > > > > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. > Backwards. > > > Lust > > > > > smoking is more than > > > > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more > > severe. > > > > sign > > > > > of a > > > > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing > > what > > > is > > > > > good as bad, seeing > > > > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as > > > unkind. > > > > This > > > > > is all > > > > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your > > sufferring > > > > or go > > > > > get some > > > > > > professional help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > so when there is no more " You " .....there is also no more " consciousness " ......of happiness, unhappiness....or whatever then there is.... " being " ..... " existing " ...... " witness " of forms...... without having anything anymore to do with all the percieved..... then....there is more difference in percieving a flower.....or reading the " loving " words of Anna....as for example..... this doesn't change anymore anything in the peace of....being Marc > Yes Bigw > > For example you feel utter happy. > > After a while you say " Wow, I am so happy " and what happens ? > Happiness now fades away. > > Happiness was gone because YOU appeared. Because YOU got conscious of > happiness. > > Pathos is when you want both: You AND happiness. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > interesting, > > i would say that pathos is the result of a resistance, that is in > > relation with some form of control. it may be useful, but it is not > > the bliss coming from a heart that is free. > > > > to be conscious is not to be in control > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > > > Can you differ between heart and pathos ? > > > > > > Please always consider: Conscious virtue is vanity. > > > > > > If you are conscious of your positive feelings or activities then > > it > > > is vanity. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > i'm not and still this is... > > > > > > > > is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Anna, > > > > > > > > > > The heart only is when you are not. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " > <nli10u@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey > > > called > > > > > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and > > love. > > > > > > > > > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of > > > what > > > > > LOVE IS. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is so... > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > - > > > > > > Werner Woehr > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > > > > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > > > > > > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > > > > > constructs. > > > > > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the > help > > of > > > a > > > > > web- > > > > > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite > of > > > > what > > > > > an > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are > > > > frustrated. > > > > > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, > > and > > > > > > therefore > > > > > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. > > Backwards. > > > > Lust > > > > > > smoking is more than > > > > > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more > > > severe. > > > > > sign > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing > > > what > > > > is > > > > > > good as bad, seeing > > > > > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as > > > > unkind. > > > > > This > > > > > > is all > > > > > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > > > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your > > > sufferring > > > > > or go > > > > > > get some > > > > > > > professional help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 yes, beautifull. hinduists talks about sat chit ananda ananda is not happiness, is not pathos, but it is one with consciousness and being, as Marc wrote, the peace of being. Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Yes Bigw > > For example you feel utter happy. > > After a while you say " Wow, I am so happy " and what happens ? > Happiness now fades away. > > Happiness was gone because YOU appeared. Because YOU got conscious of > happiness. > > Pathos is when you want both: You AND happiness. > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > interesting, > > i would say that pathos is the result of a resistance, that is in > > relation with some form of control. it may be useful, but it is not > > the bliss coming from a heart that is free. > > > > to be conscious is not to be in control > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > > > Can you differ between heart and pathos ? > > > > > > Please always consider: Conscious virtue is vanity. > > > > > > If you are conscious of your positive feelings or activities then > > it > > > is vanity. > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > i'm not and still this is... > > > > > > > > is it an echo of a heartbeat?.... > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Anna, > > > > > > > > > > The heart only is when you are not. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " > <nli10u@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > it's also wonderful to have a heart, Beloved Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > to use the brain power to meet one another in this journey > > > called > > > > > life. to touch one another deeply in friendship, caring and > > love. > > > > > > > > > > > > we live for This, would kill and die for this, our IMAGE of > > > what > > > > > LOVE IS. > > > > > > > > > > > > it is so... > > > > > > > > > > > > Ana > > > > > > - > > > > > > Werner Woehr > > > > > > Nisargadatta > > > > > > Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:06 AM > > > > > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't it wonderful to have a brain, Larry ? > > > > > > > > > > > > With such a tool you can spin all kinds of ideas and mind > > > > > constructs. > > > > > > And you also can spin a very nice self-image with the > help > > of > > > a > > > > > web- > > > > > > site. It is so lovely, isn't it ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And you even can use an analysis to hide y > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite > of > > > > what > > > > > an > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are > > > > frustrated. > > > > > > > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, > > and > > > > > > therefore > > > > > > > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. > > Backwards. > > > > Lust > > > > > > smoking is more than > > > > > > > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more > > > severe. > > > > > sign > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing > > > what > > > > is > > > > > > good as bad, seeing > > > > > > > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as > > > > unkind. > > > > > This > > > > > > is all > > > > > > > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > > > > > > > So if this is the way you are, either live in your > > > sufferring > > > > > or go > > > > > > get some > > > > > > > professional help. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Larry Epston > > > > > > > www.epston.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > Lust smoking is a perversion. It is just the opposite of what an ordinary > person would do, and that is to smoke when they are frustrated. > To need to smoke when you feel good, is odd, opposiite, and therefore > preverse because it is in reverse of the usual. Backwards. Lust smoking is more than > a simple problem with smoking. It is deeper and more severe. sign of a > backward, or reverse orientation to life. As in seeing what is good as bad, seeing > what is helpful as un-helpful, seeing what is kind as unkind. This is all > perverse thinking, a major psychological abberation. > So if this is the way you are, either live in your sufferring or go get some > professional help. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com Larry, I appreciate your willingness to share in this conversation and encourage you to continue. While some may find your style abrasive and confrontational, I find it quite entertaining and delightful. You've managed to push a few people's buttons here - including my own at times - but we can all learn something from it. So, thank you. Now. You consider the act of so called " lust-smoking " an aberration of psychological nature and a perversion of what you see as normal. Before going any further, would you mind defining, in your own words, " lust-smoking " , " frust-smoking " and " normal " ? " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Bigwaaba, > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite > those with any strategies. > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > Werner I totally agree with you, Werner. I would say what you just said appears almost beautiful. But we won't talk about that. Hehe. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2006 Report Share Posted January 5, 2006 I agree w/ you Silver, trying to bring love compassion and beautie is a very sure way to bring its counterpart, because it is the other side of the coin, it always work together. I respect humanitarians for what they do, I also know that they keep the wheel of opposites in movement. By not doing, not trying, but with a great longing heart, can the other remedie appear in full. Patricia --- s_i_l_v_e_r1069 <silver-1069 a écrit : Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Bigwaaba, > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite > those with any strategies. > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > Werner I totally agree with you, Werner. I would say what you just said appears almost beautiful. But we won't talk about that. Hehe. " Silver " ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking Bigwaaba, Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite those with any strategies. Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. Werner Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy and peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace which are not easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it is not a feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with nothing and resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and simply is. This state of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which is not the same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If anything at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought of what love may be, then love is not known. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 In a message dated 1/5/2006 3:35:01 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking I agree w/ you Silver, trying to bring love compassion and beautie is a very sure way to bring its counterpart, because it is the other side of the coin, it always work together. I respect humanitarians for what they do, I also know that they keep the wheel of opposites in movement. By not doing, not trying, but with a great longing heart, can the other remedie appear in full. Patricia Agreed and well said. There are very few who notice that compassion can hold suffering in place. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > Bigwaaba, > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite > those with any strategies. > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > Werner > > > > > > Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy and > peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace which are not > easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it is not a > feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with nothing and > resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and simply is. This state > of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which is not the > same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If anything > at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought of what > love may be, then love is not known. > > Phil hi Phil, you seem to know this your described " love " ..... good to know Marc > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Phil, As far as I remember Ramana Maharshi never talked about love, compassion and beauty, except when visitors wanted to speak about it. And you too tried to talk about what is real love and false love and misunderstood love. There are so many experts of love and endless talks about it and noOne feels ashamed about all this vain self- importance which shines through all that uttered pathetic crap. Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > Bigwaaba, > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite > those with any strategies. > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > Werner > > > > > > Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy and > peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace which are not > easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it is not a > feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with nothing and > resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and simply is. This state > of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which is not the > same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If anything > at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought of what > love may be, then love is not known. > > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Werner, did you have a good sleep? Marc > Phil, > > As far as I remember Ramana Maharshi never talked about love, > compassion and beauty, except when visitors wanted to speak about it. > > And you too tried to talk about what is real love and false love and > misunderstood love. There are so many experts of love and endless > talks about it and noOne feels ashamed about all this vain self- > importance which shines through all that uttered pathetic crap. > > Werner > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which > will > > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot > invite > > those with any strategies. > > > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly > will > > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy > and > > peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace > which are not > > easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it > is not a > > feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with > nothing and > > resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and > simply is. This state > > of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which > is not the > > same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If > anything > > at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought > of what > > love may be, then love is not known. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 hello patricia, you wrote the beautiful expression " with a great longing heart " this is what will bring love and beauty and freshness, this is what is doing the action. it is needed, it is needed to awake this longing, to trust it,to surrender, to let it start the dance. love Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige> wrote: > > I agree w/ you Silver, > trying to bring love compassion and beautie is a very > sure way to bring its counterpart, because it is the > other side of the coin, it always work together. I > respect humanitarians for what they do, I also know > that they keep the wheel of opposites in movement. > By not doing, not trying, but with a great longing > heart, can the other remedie appear in full. > Patricia > --- s_i_l_v_e_r1069 <silver-1069@h...> a > écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk > about love, > > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are > qualities which > will > > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. > You cannot invite > > those with any strategies. > > > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " > qualities will only > > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition > which mostly > will > > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > > > Werner > > I totally agree with you, Werner. I would say what > you just said > appears almost beautiful. But we won't talk about > that. Hehe. > > " Silver " > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 what shines through is.... Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Phil, > > As far as I remember Ramana Maharshi never talked about love, > compassion and beauty, except when visitors wanted to speak about it. > > And you too tried to talk about what is real love and false love and > misunderstood love. There are so many experts of love and endless > talks about it and noOne feels ashamed about all this vain self- > importance which shines through all that uttered pathetic crap. > > Werner > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > > > Bigwaaba, > > > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which > will > > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot > invite > > those with any strategies. > > > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly > will > > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy > and > > peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace > which are not > > easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it > is not a > > feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with > nothing and > > resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and > simply is. This state > > of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which > is not the > > same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If > anything > > at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought > of what > > love may be, then love is not known. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 You just spoke of it as well, and with pretty much the same focus. I only talk about it when I see others falling in love with the idea of love, or even with an experience of divine love, because this is not our destiny. On the other hand, the path of negation is a painful one, and I wish you well. Do you think Ramana felt shame for speaking of love? I promise you he felt no shame. Phil In a message dated 1/6/2006 4:25:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking Phil, As far as I remember Ramana Maharshi never talked about love, compassion and beauty, except when visitors wanted to speak about it. And you too tried to talk about what is real love and false love and misunderstood love. There are so many experts of love and endless talks about it and noOne feels ashamed about all this vain self- importance which shines through all that uttered pathetic crap. Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/5/2006 7:55:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > Re: Big-: Lust-Smoking > > Bigwaaba, > > Please see my point and my handicap, I do not talk about love, > compassion, beauty, etc. Why ? Because those are qualities which will > automatically unfold the moments when YOU are not. You cannot invite > those with any strategies. > > Talking and speaking about those " positive " qualities will only > create mental appetites and in addition an ambition which mostly will > end up in hypocrisy and falsehood. > > Werner > > > > > > Yeah, I agree with that. The human, dualistic versions of love, joy and > peace really have nothing to do with genuine love, joy and peace which are not > easily attained. I hear others talk about love as a feeling, but it is not a > feeling at all. Love, as the ground of being, struggles with nothing and > resists nothing. It's beyond conditional or unconditional and simply is. This state > of being is not fully known here but has been experienced (Which is not the > same as knowing) and sensed well enough to know what it is not. If anything > at all can shake the knowing of oneself as love beyond any thought of what > love may be, then love is not known. > > Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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