Guest guest Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 In a message dated 1/12/2006 5:35:41 PM Pacific Standard Time, adithya_comming writes: > To choose without being aware of the choice? I don't understand this question. >Tell me how this qualifies as a choice. I don't understand this also. You said something to the effect that there is choice, but it's unconscious. I restated that as " choosing without being aware of the choice " . I then asked how a choice that occurs without our conscious awareness qualifies as a choice. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > > In a message dated 1/12/2006 2:49:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, > adithya_comming writes: > > > This confusion comes about because we > > believe that our 'wants' have > > 'independent' reality independent of ourselves! > > > > We believe that our wants are > > something that are real and absolute > > and that they come from a place outside > > of us! > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. Before you came to this understanding, who's wants > did you > > think they were, > > > My wants that I believed I had no real > choice to accept, reject, change or... > delete! > > Something like the color of your hair, > color of your skin! > > You can call them 'yours' people can > call them 'yours', yet, you don't get > to " choose " or " reject " them! They > remain quite independent of your choice! > > > > Ah, I see. Thanks for explaining. Yes, it doesn't seem that we get to choose > because we don't. Hehe. Choice is an illusion. Desires simply are, and > pretending to choose that they aren't is just a mind fantasy. This applies to all > mental activity. We don't choose what we believe, we don't choose our > thoughts and we don't choose what to feel. These things only change in the course of > greater understanding. > > Phil You " choose " each and every 'belief'... only you are not Aware of It! To 'unconscious'... there is no choice [of beliefs and thoughts]! To Conscious... there is a Conscious Choice of what to 'believe'! .... To remain unconscious is to get ruled by thoughts! Conscious rules the thoughts by determining what to think... and, when to think and when... 'no to think'! That is whole of Enlightenment! One who is unconscious has no such Choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 Start from the Point of 'Not Thinking'... and, everything will become Clear! ---- Please let me know if the above is Not Clear! More below... [...] > > What is the unconscious Consciousness fully consumed in thoughts. Consciousness fully consumed in thoughts and thus unable to watch them witness them, unidentify from them. Consciousness where there is NO Space [Peace, No-thought, Witness] around thoughts. > but your own unacknowledged thoughts? Thoughts are not completely watched... when you are unconscious. 'Unwatched' thoughts are the result of... unconsciousness and not the cause! When you are Fully Watchful, Fully Present, Fully Alert... there are No Thoughts! >To imagine > that you have control over your conscious thoughts but not over your unconscious > thoughts is to split the mind and do battle over who is in control. You have control over 'all' your thoughts! Some thoughts come from 'stored' memories and pararbhdas [inherent tendencies]. Other come from current input - what you read, watch, hear, feel, eat, drink, environment! When you are Fully Present - there are No thoughts! > Nobody is in control. Everybody is in control! Consciously or... unconsciously! Thoughts that you identify with attach or oppose... Repeat! Thoughts that you remain unattached witness to and let go... slowly disappears! Thoughts that you fully question, inquire, examine... slowly disappears! As long as you remain fully unconscious - fully absorbed and consumed by thoughts - you can do neither impartial witnessing nor unattached inquiry! Once you start doing either of the do - you also start becoming more and more conscious of your thoughts! > If you had any choice, you could choose to acknowledge those > unacknowledged thoughts and there would be no unconscious. In order to have a 'choice' - first you have to be conscious! Start from the Point of 'Not Thinking' - and, everything will become Clear! > You can't do this by > choosing to do it. See Above. > > If you wish to stop the thoughts, end all desire. Ending desires is a desire and doesn't work! Remains as THAT who desires... and, desires will Stop! >If you want to change your > beliefs, you must convince yourself of the truth of the matter. There is no > choosing what to think or what to believe. Already explained above! > > To choose without being aware of the choice? I don't understand this question. >Tell me how this qualifies as a choice. I don't understand this also. > > Phil Abide as the Thinker... thoughts will disappear! ~ Ramana Maharshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2006 Report Share Posted January 13, 2006 --- adithya_comming <adithya_comming a écrit : Start from the Point of 'Not Thinking'... and, everything will become Clear! ---- Please let me know if the above is Not Clear! More below... [...] > > What is the unconscious Consciousness fully consumed in thoughts. Consciousness fully consumed in thoughts and thus unable to watch them witness them, unidentify from them. Consciousness where there is NO Space [Peace, No-thought, Witness] around thoughts. > but your own unacknowledged thoughts? Thoughts are not completely watched... when you are unconscious. 'Unwatched' thoughts are the result of... unconsciousness and not the cause! When you are Fully Watchful, Fully Present, Fully Alert... there are No Thoughts! >To imagine > that you have control over your conscious thoughts but not over your unconscious > thoughts is to split the mind and do battle over who is in control. You have control over 'all' your thoughts! Some thoughts come from 'stored' memories and pararbhdas [inherent tendencies]. Other come from current input - what you read, watch, hear, feel, eat, drink, environment! When you are Fully Present - there are No thoughts! > Nobody is in control. Everybody is in control! Consciously or... unconsciously! Thoughts that you identify with attach or oppose... Repeat! Thoughts that you remain unattached witness to and let go... slowly disappears! Thoughts that you fully question, inquire, examine... slowly disappears! As long as you remain fully unconscious - fully absorbed and consumed by thoughts - you can do neither impartial witnessing nor unattached inquiry! Once you start doing either of the do - you also start becoming more and more conscious of your thoughts! > If you had any choice, you could choose to acknowledge those > unacknowledged thoughts and there would be no unconscious. In order to have a 'choice' - first you have to be conscious! Start from the Point of 'Not Thinking' - and, everything will become Clear! > You can't do this by > choosing to do it. See Above. > > If you wish to stop the thoughts, end all desire. Ending desires is a desire and doesn't work! Remains as THAT who desires... and, desires will Stop! >If you want to change your > beliefs, you must convince yourself of the truth of the matter. There is no > choosing what to think or what to believe. Already explained above! > > To choose without being aware of the choice? I don't understand this question. >Tell me how this qualifies as a choice. I don't understand this also. > > Phil Abide as the Thinker... thoughts will disappear! ~ Ramana Maharshi P: Abide as the lover...thoughts and desires will melt away. Thank-you for the good work, However, not being much of a thinker, I can transpose it in a different way. Stay with the sense I am, with the proto-atom located in the heart sanctuary, It is there that lays the atom of cosmic energie, The never changing most fidele friend awaiting. Thanks again. Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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