Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) and the Arising of Suffering • Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although conceivably from a different perspective. Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not having chosen the 'right' side. • Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern science: - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as expressed by E, - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as represented by Mc2. In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly prescribes and allows for. The Arising of Suffering The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: .. The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... clearly 'homo ludens'! .. When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo-locale, not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized rift by the non-dual witness. Wim Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) and the Arising of Suffering • Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although conceivably from a different perspective. Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not having chosen the 'right' side. • Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern science: - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as expressed by E, - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as represented by Mc2. In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly prescribes and allows for. The Arising of Suffering The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: .. The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... clearly 'homo ludens'! .. When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo-locale, not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized rift by the non-dual witness. Wim http://free-by-nature.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Impressive Wim... AND 2 wives...interesting reality you created, eh? Ana - Wim Borsboom Nisargadatta Saturday, January 14, 2006 6:19 AM Dualism, Non-dualism and the Arising of Suffering Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) and the Arising of Suffering . Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although conceivably from a different perspective. Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not having chosen the 'right' side. . Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern science: - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as expressed by E, - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as represented by Mc2. In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly prescribes and allows for. The Arising of Suffering The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: . The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... clearly 'homo ludens'! . When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo-locale, not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized rift by the non-dual witness. Wim Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) and the Arising of Suffering . Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although conceivably from a different perspective. Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not having chosen the 'right' side. . Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern science: - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as expressed by E, - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as represented by Mc2. In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly prescribes and allows for. The Arising of Suffering The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: . The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... clearly 'homo ludens'! . When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo-locale, not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized rift by the non-dual witness. Wim http://free-by-nature.blogspot.com/ ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 ok! so let's celebrate! uh uh uh thank you my friend Nisargadatta , " Wim Borsboom " <wim_borsboom> wrote: > > Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) > and the Arising of Suffering > > • Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, > separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in > opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. > In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is > seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic > forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the > form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although > conceivably from a different perspective. > Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is > accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is > suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not > having chosen the 'right' side. > > • Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity > or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships > manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. > Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern > science: > - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as > expressed by E, > - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as > represented by Mc2. > > In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering > occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of > integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only > mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the > expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one > gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship > gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted > according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, > essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates > in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and > existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of > divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly > prescribes and allows for. > > The Arising of Suffering > > The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether > relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: > unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: > . The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as > harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of > pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many > possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... > clearly 'homo ludens'! > . When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually > occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to > it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are > experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and > anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical > feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those > that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a > rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an > enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the > acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness > there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - > not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness > to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) > > So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking > place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance > is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental > separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', > as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit > NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. > Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo- locale, > not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... > although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized > rift by the non-dual witness. > > Wim > > Dualism and Non-dualism (Advaita) > and the Arising of Suffering > > • Dualism s to and prescribes the concept of pervasive, > separative discrepancy, exemplified by an absolute belief in > opposites, e.g. good vs. evil, God vs. satan, etc. > In dualism-based beliefs or religions, suffering (and punishment) is > seen as part of a presumed fundamental duel or fight between dualistic > forces: each side threatening the other side with suffering (in the > form of punishment) if not joined up with their own side - although > conceivably from a different perspective. > Often the sense of happiness in dualist religions or beliefs is > accompanied by a certain glee (Schadenfreude) that the 'other' side is > suffering from the punishment it deserves, being punished for not > having chosen the 'right' side. > > • Non-dualism (Advaita) recognizes a fundamental and overarching unity > or union within which all forms of relating and all relationships > manifest -- always transforming dynamically and relativistically. > Compare to Einstein's relativistic discoveries, the basis of modern > science: > - The overarching, underlying and intrinsic unity can be seen as > expressed by E, > - The varying manifestations of units of relationships can be seen as > represented by Mc2. > > In Advaita one can observe how the apparent arising of suffering > occurs: how the appearance of suffering depends on how the dynamics of > integral relating, through all aspects and levels of reality are only > mentally processed - in a limiting sense - exclusive of and at the > expense of all other complementary levels of reality. In Advaita one > gains full insight into dualism, how the full spectrum of relationship > gets - conceptually only - misappreciated and inadequately interpreted > according to incomplete mental processing of all available sensorial, > essential and existential experience. One witnesses and participates > in full reality, relating wholly in function and action, essence and > existence, across more than just mentally conceptually drawn lines of > divergence and separation that the dualist mentality so limitingly > prescribes and allows for. > > The Arising of Suffering > > The presence or absence of mental suffering depends on whether > relationships are mentally accepted as they are or not accepted: > unconditionally OR with resisting reservations: > . The mental process of acceptance of any relationship is felt as > harmony or happiness and is supported by a physical experience of > pleasure in varying grades of intensity. Usually a playfulness in many > possible formats follows, in an atmosphere of celebration even... > clearly 'homo ludens'! > . When there is mentally no acceptance of a nevertheless factually > occurring relationship (or when there is resistance or objection to > it) conflict instead of harmony - agony instead happiness are > experienced, usually accompanied by feelings of displeasure and > anger... which... strangely enough can also be accompanied by physical > feelings of pleasure, ones that are curiously similar to the those > that come with harmonious acceptance. But now these feelings are of a > rather gleeful nature and produce a dubious sort of gratification, an > enjoyment of the pain that may be happening to those to whom the > acceptance of relating is denied or resisted. Instead of playfulness > there is now conflict, there may even be fighting in an atmosphere - > not of celebration - but rather of destroying any chance for happiness > to occur... no play instead... delusion, no 'homo ludens'! > > http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=delude) > > So when relationships, although factually and functionally taking > place, are mentally resisted, denied or objected too, that resistance > is experienced as conflict, anguish, agony or suffering - a mental > separateness - that can indeed (should in fact) be called 'illusion', > as physical relating is actually and functionally taking place albeit > NOT supported by a clear and accepting mental recognition. > Ergo, the mind is in a separate non-actual/non-factual pseudo- locale, > not 'with it' ( " it " being complete reality)... hence illusion... > although the illusive might be showing up as an observable mentalized > rift by the non-dual witness. > > Wim > > http://free-by-nature.blogspot.com/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi all, I updated the blog version of this post, it is now more complete as it now also deals with the unpleasurable pain and suffering of the person who's ability to freely relate was interfered with. Wim http://free-by-nature.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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