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Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...>

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

> >

> >Yes. I'm not struggling with the illusion. It's fine just as it is.

>

> Thats great, Phil!

>

> But I went one step further and said: there is no illusion. To call

> the mirage an illusion means creating another concept, another

belief.

> It means exchanging one belief for another. But everything is as it

> is. The mirage simply is a mirage.

>

> If everything is embraced equally then there is no need for concepts

> like illusion and liberation. Then there is just the natural state.

> Ordinary. It is not a higher state, it does not avard one with

> privileges like a university degree. We all are already in that

state.

> It is the only state that exists. It simply has to be accepted.

 

W: hi Stefan, " it simply has to be accepted " ? what...that you are

longing for peace, bliss and love? or that bliss is your reality?

.... bliss breathing through this...

......ordinary divine flowing energy...

 

 

 

>

> But as long as one expects peace, bliss, love... and all that has to

> be lasting of course... he is hunting his own tail and may do so

> forever. What is peace? Everybody experiences his little peace from

> time to time, but he might find himself in the midst of war the next

> moment. But what has all this to do with truth? What do we want:

truth

> or wonderful higher states? If we really want truth then we have to

be

> ready to accept whatever we find.

>

> We can stop to ponder and fathom at any moment and instead look for

> what is. (But it might be different from what we expect :-)))

>

> LiLaLo

> Stefan

>

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-

bigwaaba

Nisargadatta

Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:09 AM

bliss

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...>

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

> >

> >Yes. I'm not struggling with the illusion. It's fine just as it is.

>

> Thats great, Phil!

>

> But I went one step further and said: there is no illusion. To call

> the mirage an illusion means creating another concept, another

belief.

> It means exchanging one belief for another. But everything is as it

> is. The mirage simply is a mirage.

>

> If everything is embraced equally then there is no need for concepts

> like illusion and liberation. Then there is just the natural state.

> Ordinary. It is not a higher state, it does not avard one with

> privileges like a university degree. We all are already in that

state.

> It is the only state that exists. It simply has to be accepted.

 

W: hi Stefan, " it simply has to be accepted " ? what...that you are

longing for peace, bliss and love? or that bliss is your reality?

... bliss breathing through this...

.....ordinary divine flowing energy...

 

 

If I am not bliss, who am I if not This Is?

 

Love....

 

 

Ana

 

 

 

 

>

> But as long as one expects peace, bliss, love... and all that has to

> be lasting of course... he is hunting his own tail and may do so

> forever. What is peace? Everybody experiences his little peace from

> time to time, but he might find himself in the midst of war the next

> moment. But what has all this to do with truth? What do we want:

truth

> or wonderful higher states? If we really want truth then we have to

be

> ready to accept whatever we find.

>

> We can stop to ponder and fathom at any moment and instead look for

> what is. (But it might be different from what we expect :-)))

>

> LiLaLo

> Stefan

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**

 

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription,

sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

 

/mygroups?edit=1

 

Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta

group and click on Save Changes.

 

 

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote:

>

>

> -

> bigwaaba

> Nisargadatta

> Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:09 AM

> bliss

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...>

> wrote:

> >

> > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote:

> > >

> > >Yes. I'm not struggling with the illusion. It's fine just as

it is.

> >

> > Thats great, Phil!

> >

> > But I went one step further and said: there is no illusion. To

call

> > the mirage an illusion means creating another concept, another

> belief.

> > It means exchanging one belief for another. But everything is

as it

> > is. The mirage simply is a mirage.

> >

> > If everything is embraced equally then there is no need for

concepts

> > like illusion and liberation. Then there is just the natural

state.

> > Ordinary. It is not a higher state, it does not avard one with

> > privileges like a university degree. We all are already in that

> state.

> > It is the only state that exists. It simply has to be accepted.

>

> W: hi Stefan, " it simply has to be accepted " ? what...that you are

> longing for peace, bliss and love? or that bliss is your reality?

> ... bliss breathing through this...

> .....ordinary divine flowing energy...

>

>

> If I am not bliss, who am I if not This Is?

>

> Love....

>

>

> Ana

 

 

AHHHH...

answer doesn't appear in this mind...:)

 

 

 

>

>

> >

> > But as long as one expects peace, bliss, love... and all that

has to

> > be lasting of course... he is hunting his own tail and may do

so

> > forever. What is peace? Everybody experiences his little peace

from

> > time to time, but he might find himself in the midst of war the

next

> > moment. But what has all this to do with truth? What do we

want:

> truth

> > or wonderful higher states? If we really want truth then we

have to

> be

> > ready to accept whatever we find.

> >

> > We can stop to ponder and fathom at any moment and instead look

for

> > what is. (But it might be different from what we expect :-)))

> >

> > LiLaLo

> > Stefan

> >

>

**

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote:

 

>W: hi Stefan, " it simply has to be accepted " ? what...that you are

>longing for peace, bliss and love? or that bliss is your reality?

>... bliss breathing through this...

>.....ordinary divine flowing energy...

 

Hi, thanks for asking!

 

I meant: everything that arises has to be accepted. You can chose a

part of it (like a concept of truth, love and peace and a supposedly

longing for it) and accept that. Great. But this is not the total

acceptance I am talking about. Embrace everything. Existence is every

moment new. Full of surprises. We like to live in a predictable world,

though. This is the reason why people go on and on discussing how

things are going to be.

 

But if one is longing for truth...

To be with what is...

How could truth be found anywhere else?

 

Stefan

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thank you!

 

personally...(ah! maybe not an advaita-correct word!)...however,

personally i do not like to live in a predictable world.

 

Embracing the unkwown is the action of love...embracing it not to

make it known, just pulsating with it...and truth is never found, is

lived, is living...yes, around there is the scent of it, the

vibrations,the thrill...all pervading...

 

:) :) :)!

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...>

wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba>

wrote:

>

> >W: hi Stefan, " it simply has to be accepted " ? what...that you are

> >longing for peace, bliss and love? or that bliss is your reality?

> >... bliss breathing through this...

> >.....ordinary divine flowing energy...

>

> Hi, thanks for asking!

>

> I meant: everything that arises has to be accepted. You can chose a

> part of it (like a concept of truth, love and peace and a supposedly

> longing for it) and accept that. Great. But this is not the total

> acceptance I am talking about. Embrace everything. Existence is

every

> moment new. Full of surprises. We like to live in a predictable

world,

> though. This is the reason why people go on and on discussing how

> things are going to be.

>

> But if one is longing for truth...

> To be with what is...

> How could truth be found anywhere else?

>

> Stefan

>

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  • 3 years later...

, " Tony OClery " <aoclery

wrote:

 

, " Peter " <not_2@> wrote:

>

>

>

>

> , " Tony OClery " wrote:

>

> >> Ramana talked mainly of Iswara/Saguna/Sakti etc, as that was the

> mentality of many of his audience. Bliss is the last impediment as

it is of

> the mind/iswara/sakti/saguna. Ramana also said that Iswara was as

real as

> you are.........Tony<<

>

> Dear Tony,

>

> Both Ramana and Sankaracharya stated that our true nature, Atman,

is none

> other than the unborn Brahman (nirguna Brahman). This is the

essence of

> ajatavada, is it not? This is the natural state (sahaj stithi)

unrealised

> by us and realised and 'abided in' by the jnani.

>

> Jiva (the individual) and Ishwara (the personal god, saguna

brahman) are

> appearances in the field of empirical existence, i.e., duality.

Both jiva

> and Ishwara as appearances are relative realities, relative truths.

It would

> be quite absurd for either Ramana or Sankaracharya to assert that

our true

> nature, our " real self " , is but an appearance, a relative reality,

nor did

> either of them assert this. It is the same unborn Brahman that

appears as

> the individual jiva, the world, and as Ishwara (saguna brahman).

This is

> the heart of Ramana's teaching.

>

> With regards to Bliss, Ramana distinguishes between the Bliss which

is our

> true nature (Atman, Brahman) and temporary blissful states of

consciousness

> experienced by the jiva due to the anandamaya kosa. It is the

latter that

> are usually referred to as an impediment when the individual jiva

becomes

> attached to such transient states of mind. In Talks, Ramana

explains:

>

> M.: The common man is aware of himself only when

> modifications arise in the intellect (vijnanamaya kosa); these

> modifications are transient; they arise and set. Hence the

vijnanamaya

> (intellect) is called a kosa or sheath. When pure awareness is left

> over it is itself the Chit (Self) or the Supreme. To be in one's

natural

> state on the subsidence of thoughts is bliss; if that bliss be

transient

> - arising and setting - then it is only the sheath of bliss

(Anandamaya

> kosa), not the pure Self. What is needed is to fix the attention on

> the pure 'I' after the subsidence of all thoughts and not to lose

hold

> of it. This has to be described as an extremely subtle thought; else

> it cannot be spoken of at all, since it is no other than the Real

Self.

> Who is to speak of it, to whom and how?

> (Talks: 624)

>

> Best wishes,

> Peter

 

Namaste, Peter,

 

You are still talking of Saguna concept..

 

...Sankara never taught beyond the Self...the unborn etc is Saguna the

God within but at the same time separate........I am talking of Nir

Guna Brahman or Para Advaita. Ultimately there is no Saguna but many

followers totally confuse Saguna with Nir Guna and assume that

somebody made a mistake when they wrote NirGuna as it cannot be

positively described..

 

Ramana and Sankara only talk about what can be talked about Saguna.

Saguna of the projected Bliss, Sakti Iswara etc etc........Sakti or

even prakriti are Bliss the supreme bliss of illusion and delusion.

 

That is what I am saying even the appearance, projection and

projector didn't happen..........That is Ajativada even ParaAdvaita a

phrase I coined myself to explain my ramblings.......

 

That is the fatal mistake of most sadhakas to continually identify

the unborn Saguna as NirGuna, hence my treatment on the Advaitin site

for daring to say that the Brahman of Pralaya is Saguna because of

the potentialiy.............Wake up and smell the Gunas that is the

delusion...........Cheers Tony.

 

--- End forwarded message ---

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