Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@h...> wrote: Stefan: >All attempts to escape are made of the same stuff of which the trap itself is made. >****If that's so, then there is no escaping from whatever it is we're >trapped in. What exactly are we trapped in? Both are made of the same stuff: they are merely ideas. If at all, we are trapped in the belief that we are trapped. But I cannot detect anyone who is trapped when looking at things as theý come and go. >I don't deny the trap. I try to give it a new meaning. A more >acceptable one. And I deny it. Best wishes Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " > <silver-1069@h...> wrote: > > Stefan: > >All attempts to escape are made of the same stuff of which the trap > itself is made. > > >****If that's so, then there is no escaping from whatever it is we're > >trapped in. What exactly are we trapped in? > > Both are made of the same stuff: they are merely ideas. If at all, we > are trapped in the belief that we are trapped. But I cannot detect > anyone who is trapped when looking at things as theý come and go. > > >I don't deny the trap. I try to give it a new meaning. A more > >acceptable one. > > And I deny it. The ideas 'trap' and 'escape from trap' come from the mind. When mind realizes that it may forever be ensnared by its own concoctions of reality, the mind compromises itself and engages in additional fanciful imaginings trying to figure out how to make itself more comfortable in its own trap by changing the meaning of what's happening to it. However, changing the meaning will not change the fact of the mind's belief in the idea that it is trapped. A trap is a trap and the mind cannot escape. CANNOT! The mind thought itself into the trap; can the mind think itself out? No. More thought will not free the mind. Nor will no-thought. The mind cannot free itself. It can deny it is trapped but that's like stubbing my toe and saying, " That didn't hurt. " Bullshit! That's not what the toe would say! The toe suffers; the mind suffers. Ha! But I remain aware of it all. Unaffected. I am not mind; not ideation; thinking; imagining; not trapped or free; not no-thought; not suffering; not belief. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. What remains? Awareness. Big mother-f***king deal! (That's what mind thinks of awareness. It's not exciting enough. Lol.) " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 - s_i_l_v_e_r1069 Nisargadatta Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:33 PM Re: remembering or forgetting Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " > <silver-1069@h...> wrote: > > Stefan: > >All attempts to escape are made of the same stuff of which the trap > itself is made. > > >****If that's so, then there is no escaping from whatever it is we're > >trapped in. What exactly are we trapped in? > > Both are made of the same stuff: they are merely ideas. If at all, we > are trapped in the belief that we are trapped. But I cannot detect > anyone who is trapped when looking at things as theý come and go. > > >I don't deny the trap. I try to give it a new meaning. A more > >acceptable one. > > And I deny it. The ideas 'trap' and 'escape from trap' come from the mind. When mind realizes that it may forever be ensnared by its own concoctions of reality, the mind compromises itself and engages in additional fanciful imaginings trying to figure out how to make itself more comfortable in its own trap by changing the meaning of what's happening to it. However, changing the meaning will not change the fact of the mind's belief in the idea that it is trapped. A trap is a trap and the mind cannot escape. CANNOT! The mind thought itself into the trap; can the mind think itself out? No. More thought will not free the mind. Nor will no-thought. The mind cannot free itself. It can deny it is trapped but that's like stubbing my toe and saying, " That didn't hurt. " Bullshit! That's not what the toe would say! The toe suffers; the mind suffers. Ha! But I remain aware of it all. Unaffected. I am not mind; not ideation; thinking; imagining; not trapped or free; not no-thought; not suffering; not belief. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. What remains? Awareness. Big mother-f***king deal! (That's what mind thinks of awareness. It's not exciting enough. Lol.) " Silver " Why silver,darling ;-) that would depend on what that li'l ole mind is aware of in any particular moment as to how excited it is or isn't, n'est ce pas? ;-) ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069@h...> wrote: > >Ha! But I remain aware of it all. Unaffected. I am not mind; not >ideation; thinking; imagining; not trapped or free; not no-thought; >not suffering; not belief. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. What >remains? > >Awareness. Neti. :-) Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:02:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: Let's see the first sentence: " Yes, Pooh bear, I agree with all that you say, with one exception. " Hmm. You agree? Okay. Except for one thing? What is it? Next sentence: " I'm certain you can scan a room without conscious mentation on the objects within [the room].... " So far, we still agree. :0 Continuing, " ...but I'm doubtful that you can do so without identifying any object. " I see. But I don't recall writing anything about the process of object identification. Did I? Let me go back to my previous post above (above yours, above) and see if I can find what it is you may be referring to. Ah, I see now. I was writing (more like, YAPPING, lol) something about perception and thinking, I think. I really don't remember what prompted me to yap about anything at all. Hehe. But, when I scan a room, the " I " here representing the mind, I'm afraid I can't help doing what it is I do. I'm a mind and thinking is what I do best. So, of course I'm going to identify the objects I see. It's my job to distinguish their form from other forms and to separate them out from all the other forms I see in my mind, and it's my job to give them shape and name. The mind's job is to transform something imperceptible into something it can perceive with its senses and thereby experience itself in all its vain glory. Without mind, no world. Without world, no ego. Without ego, a new world. A new perception of the world, that is. The error has been erased. The light has dispersed the darkness. The darkness disappears and the light reveals the world to you in all its glory. Perception has been corrected, finally! The New Jerusalem above has descended to Earth and one can see it with the eyes of faith in magick. Or hypnosis. Hypnosis is a legitimate form of magick. With belief, anything is possible in the realm of hypnosis. Anything. It reminds me of Witchcraft. Specifically, Vodoun and Spirit possession. Under trance, a form of hypnosis, believers are possessed by spirits who take over their minds. They actually do seem taken over by some kind of entity when you watch them dance and flail all over the place to the constant trance-inducing beat of the music. Hypnotized is what they are. They are all in a state of hypnosis. But aren't we all, to some extent? That's why it's best to just let things be the way they appear to be and not bother with them. If a leaf in the forest falls to the ground, do you bother about it? If the mind plays tricks on you, should you bother about it? It's the mind's game to play games on itself. It loves puzzles and will create the most labyrinthian elaborations as are possible in order to f**k itself up. Lol. Just take a look at the Zen Koan, for example. Hehe. Tell me one of those things don't make your mind go a little whacko after some thoughtful consideration! Hehe, trippy stuff, man! Zen Koans. I love them. Anyway, uh...*fingers tapping on keyboard; pause; reach out with right hand for beer; take swig; replace beer on computer desk* I don't know what else to say. " Silver " Hehe. I think you just said it all. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Tis Silver to whom you be responding rather than my bad self. Phil In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:02:24 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " Stefan " <s.petersilge Re: remembering or forgetting Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: Hi Phil, it is me again. >Let your eyes roam around the room without focusing attention on any >object in particular. Don't label anything. Don't judge anything. >Don't give meaning to anything you see. Just look. Imagine looking >through the eyes of a baby with a fresh and unconditioned brain. O.k., but what is the use of it? To do what you just suggest demands again a lot of thinking and doing! The thinking and doing is already inherent in your suggestion. There is no way out of the trap as long as one believes there is a trap. All attempts to escape are made of the same stuff of which the trap itself is made. Oh, and the idea that the brain of a baby is unconcitioned and allows wonderful experiences is another romantic fairytale. >The secret is to learn how to not give meaning to anything perceived. We have learned so many things, so many useless " secrets " , now why adding another one? My open secret is: it cannot be done. Therefor I do not waste my time with such exercises. You cannot perceive without giving meanings. You have observed it yourself. So what? Call it a trap: and you are in a trap. Accept it and things may start to flow. Best wishes Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@A... wrote: > > >Tis Silver to whom you be responding rather than my bad self. > >Phil Hi Phil, yes, I realized the confusion... sorry for that :-) Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > s_i_l_v_e_r1069 > Nisargadatta > Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:33 PM > Re: remembering or forgetting > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " > > <silver-1069@h...> wrote: > > > > Stefan: > > >All attempts to escape are made of the same stuff of which the trap > > itself is made. > > > > >****If that's so, then there is no escaping from whatever it is > we're > > >trapped in. What exactly are we trapped in? > > > > Both are made of the same stuff: they are merely ideas. If at all, > we > > are trapped in the belief that we are trapped. But I cannot detect > > anyone who is trapped when looking at things as theý come and go. > > > > >I don't deny the trap. I try to give it a new meaning. A more > > >acceptable one. > > > > And I deny it. > > The ideas 'trap' and 'escape from trap' come from the mind. When > mind realizes that it may forever be ensnared by its own concoctions > of reality, the mind compromises itself and engages in additional > fanciful imaginings trying to figure out how to make itself more > comfortable in its own trap by changing the meaning of what's > happening to it. However, changing the meaning will not change the > fact of the mind's belief in the idea that it is trapped. A trap is > a trap and the mind cannot escape. CANNOT! The mind thought itself > into the trap; can the mind think itself out? No. More thought > will not free the mind. Nor will no-thought. The mind cannot free > itself. It can deny it is trapped but that's like stubbing my toe > and saying, " That didn't hurt. " Bullshit! That's not what the toe > would say! The toe suffers; the mind suffers. > > Ha! But I remain aware of it all. Unaffected. I am not mind; not > ideation; thinking; imagining; not trapped or free; not no- thought; > not suffering; not belief. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. Neti-neti. What > remains? > > Awareness. > > Big mother-f***king deal! (That's what mind thinks of awareness. > It's not exciting enough. Lol.) > > " Silver " > > > Why silver,darling ;-) > > that would depend on what that li'l ole mind is aware of in any particular moment > as to how excited it is or isn't, n'est ce pas? > > ;-) Oh! I didn't think of it that way. Yeah. Anything other than what the mind is focusing on in the present moment is also awareness. Right? Even if it's being aware of the the past or future in fantasies of fear and anticipation, it's still awareness. N'est ce pas, non? > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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