Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 --- dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 a écrit : Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > " The Untethered Mind > > The transformation of the world is brought about by the transformation > of oneself, because the self is the product and a part of the total > process of human existence. To transform oneself, self-knowledge is > essential; without knowing what you are, there is no basis for right > thought, and without knowing yourself there cannot be transformation. > One must know oneself as one is, not as one wishes to be, which is > merely an ideal and therefore fictitious, unreal; it is only that > which is that can be transformed, not that which you wish to be. To > know oneself as one is requires an extraordinary alertness of mind, > because what is is constantly undergoing transformation, change; and > to follow it swiftly the mind must not be tethered to any particular > dogma or belief, to any particular pattern of action. If you would > follow anything, it is no good being tethered. To know yourself, > there must be the awareness, the alertness of mind in which there is > freedom from all beliefs, from all idealization, because beliefs and > ideals only give you a color, perverting true perception. If you want > to know what you are, you cannot imagine or have belief in something > which you are not. If I am greedy, envious, violent, merely having an > ideal of non-violence, of non-greed, is of little value.... The > understanding of what you are, whatever it be ugly or beautiful, > wicked or mischievous the understanding of what you are, without > distortion, is the beginning of virtue. Virtue is essential, for it > gives freedom. " > > J. Krishnamurti The Book of Life - January 24 thank you Werner for this words of truth even if some people don't want to know " who " they are.....it can be of nice information.....and concept....and food for mind.... giving a " brillant " moment of some little peace and happiness.... but i think that Krishnamurti himSelf had some great fun ....in using himSelf.....writing beautiful words.....to himSelf Marc Dear Marc, Your opinion of K. does pain me. He was my first teacher and simply showed me how to bring great order into my life, and bring my attention to its true calling. I was 17 back then and moved to Ojai CA to work at the Oak grove school. I was an avide learner and I did gather a lot of pearls. Got bored by the followers, they had lost their sense of humor, and that killed it for me. But not him, he never lost his intent nor sense of humor. Maybe his message wasn`t transendental to you but he helped inumerous numbers of poeple to step onto a different path altogether. That has so much value.. Kindly, Patricia > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 - OConnor Patricia Nisargadatta Tuesday, January 24, 2006 12:54 PM Marc : Krishnamurti --- dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33 a écrit : Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > " The Untethered Mind > > The transformation of the world is brought about by the transformation > of oneself, because the self is the product and a part of the total > process of human existence. To transform oneself, self-knowledge is > essential; without knowing what you are, there is no basis for right > thought, and without knowing yourself there cannot be transformation. > One must know oneself as one is, not as one wishes to be, which is > merely an ideal and therefore fictitious, unreal; it is only that > which is that can be transformed, not that which you wish to be. To > know oneself as one is requires an extraordinary alertness of mind, > because what is is constantly undergoing transformation, change; and > to follow it swiftly the mind must not be tethered to any particular > dogma or belief, to any particular pattern of action. If you would > follow anything, it is no good being tethered. To know yourself, > there must be the awareness, the alertness of mind in which there is > freedom from all beliefs, from all idealization, because beliefs and > ideals only give you a color, perverting true perception. If you want > to know what you are, you cannot imagine or have belief in something > which you are not. If I am greedy, envious, violent, merely having an > ideal of non-violence, of non-greed, is of little value.... The > understanding of what you are, whatever it be ugly or beautiful, > wicked or mischievous the understanding of what you are, without > distortion, is the beginning of virtue. Virtue is essential, for it > gives freedom. " > > J. Krishnamurti The Book of Life - January 24 thank you Werner for this words of truth even if some people don't want to know " who " they are.....it can be of nice information.....and concept....and food for mind.... giving a " brillant " moment of some little peace and happiness.... but i think that Krishnamurti himSelf had some great fun ....in using himSelf.....writing beautiful words.....to himSelf Marc Dear Marc, Your opinion of K. does pain me. He was my first teacher and simply showed me how to bring great order into my life, and bring my attention to its true calling. I was 17 back then and moved to Ojai CA to work at the Oak grove school. I was an avide learner and I did gather a lot of pearls. Got bored by the followers, they had lost their sense of humor, and that killed it for me. But not him, he never lost his intent nor sense of humor. Maybe his message wasn`t transendental to you but he helped inumerous numbers of poeple to step onto a different path altogether. That has so much value.. Kindly, Patricia > Hi Patricia, Marc and Werner, Though I had an understanding of many spiritual principles as a child, a seeming, " I know that " , reading a book of K--Think On These Things-- was instrumental for/to me to access the silence behind the thinking mind, where duality exists, although I was not yet assimilating all the dualities. Though the major duality as I saw it, and as he proposed it was, in essence, change does not occur outside. Any change is modified or accessed by an internal mechanism. One can not 'fix' anything being on the 'outside'. I almost always felt alien, (perhaps as a direct experience as being a 'displaced person' which also parallelled), an outsider to the ways of those around me. I could see exactly how things related though I had no means to communicate it as an outsider looking in. Over the years the subtle shift became a huge movement thru again, a subtle shift-- there was absolutely no line, no mental constraint and demarcation between inside and outside. There is/was only Consciousness being content and Being Awareness, which also merged into the recognition of/in/as This. I, for one, am grateful to him as one of many Wayshowers... He also had a magnificent sense of humour. Ana ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 After these testimonials I feel remiss in not giving my own: I cut my spiritual baby teeth on Krishnamurti. I haven't read much of him for years, yet the insights from reading and reflecting on what was read, slowly over time, are like a bedrock. Those insights are still so very vivid today. Krishnamurti cannot be summarized really. A Cliff Notes on Krishnamurti would simply be a lie. The root of his approach is to invite you, to *challenge* you to Really Look, to really investigate. He challenges you to strip away all that you " know " and go naked into the present, into what is. Bill > > --- dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33> a > écrit : > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > " The Untethered Mind > > > > The transformation of the world is brought about by > the > transformation > > of oneself, because the self is the product and a > part of the total > > process of human existence. To transform oneself, > self-knowledge is > > essential; without knowing what you are, there is no > basis for right > > thought, and without knowing yourself there cannot > be > transformation. > > One must know oneself as one is, not as one wishes > to be, which is > > merely an ideal and therefore fictitious, unreal; it > is only that > > which is that can be transformed, not that which you > wish to be. To > > know oneself as one is requires an extraordinary > alertness of mind, > > because what is is constantly undergoing > transformation, change; > and > > to follow it swiftly the mind must not be tethered > to any > particular > > dogma or belief, to any particular pattern of > action. If you would > > follow anything, it is no good being tethered. To > know yourself, > > there must be the awareness, the alertness of mind > in which there > is > > freedom from all beliefs, from all idealization, > because beliefs > and > > ideals only give you a color, perverting true > perception. If you > want > > to know what you are, you cannot imagine or have > belief in > something > > which you are not. If I am greedy, envious, violent, > merely having > an > > ideal of non-violence, of non-greed, is of little > value.... The > > understanding of what you are, whatever it be ugly > or beautiful, > > wicked or mischievous the understanding of what you > are, without > > distortion, is the beginning of virtue. Virtue is > essential, for it > > gives freedom. " > > > > J. Krishnamurti The Book of Life - January 24 > > > > thank you Werner for this words of truth > > even if some people don't want to know " who " they > are.....it can be > of nice information.....and concept....and food for > mind.... > giving a " brillant " moment of some little peace and > happiness.... > > but i think that Krishnamurti himSelf had some great > fun ....in using > himSelf.....writing beautiful words.....to himSelf > > > > Marc > > Dear Marc, > Your opinion of K. does pain me. He was my first > teacher and simply showed me how to bring great order > into my life, and bring my attention to its true > calling. I was 17 back then and moved to Ojai CA to > work at the Oak grove school. I was an avide learner > and I did gather a lot of pearls. Got bored by the > followers, they had lost their sense of humor, and > that killed it for me. But not him, he never lost his > intent nor sense of humor. > Maybe his message wasn`t transendental to you but he > helped inumerous numbers of poeple to step onto a > different path altogether. That has so much value.. > Kindly, > Patricia > > > > > > Hi Patricia, Marc and Werner, > Though I had an understanding of many spiritual principles as a child, > a seeming, " I know that " , reading a book of K--Think On These Things-- > was instrumental for/to me to access the silence behind the thinking mind, > where duality exists, although I was not yet assimilating all the dualities. > Though the major duality as I saw it, and as he proposed it was, in essence, > change does not occur outside. Any change is modified or accessed > by an internal mechanism. One can not 'fix' anything being on the 'outside'. > I almost always felt alien, (perhaps as a direct experience as being a 'displaced > person' which also parallelled), an outsider to the ways of those around me. I could > see exactly how things related though I had no means to communicate it as an outsider > looking in. Over the years the subtle shift became a huge movement thru again, a subtle > shift-- there was absolutely no line, no mental constraint and demarcation between > inside and outside. There is/was only Consciousness being content and Being Awareness, > which also merged into the recognition of/in/as This. > > I, for one, am grateful to him as one of many Wayshowers... He also had a magnificent sense > of humour. > > Ana > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Well said , Bill. And this " really looking " is not a romantic, fancy thing. It rather will kill you. Werner Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@g...> wrote: > > After these testimonials I feel remiss in not > giving my own: > > I cut my spiritual baby teeth on Krishnamurti. > I haven't read much of him for years, yet the > insights from reading and reflecting on what > was read, slowly over time, are like a bedrock. > Those insights are still so very vivid today. > > Krishnamurti cannot be summarized really. > A Cliff Notes on Krishnamurti would simply > be a lie. > > The root of his approach is to invite you, > to *challenge* you to Really Look, to really > investigate. He challenges you to strip away > all that you " know " and go naked into the > present, into what is. > > > Bill > > > > > > --- dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33> a > > écrit : > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > " The Untethered Mind > > > > > > The transformation of the world is brought about by > > the > > transformation > > > of oneself, because the self is the product and a > > part of the total > > > process of human existence. To transform oneself, > > self-knowledge is > > > essential; without knowing what you are, there is no > > basis for right > > > thought, and without knowing yourself there cannot > > be > > transformation. > > > One must know oneself as one is, not as one wishes > > to be, which is > > > merely an ideal and therefore fictitious, unreal; it > > is only that > > > which is that can be transformed, not that which you > > wish to be. To > > > know oneself as one is requires an extraordinary > > alertness of mind, > > > because what is is constantly undergoing > > transformation, change; > > and > > > to follow it swiftly the mind must not be tethered > > to any > > particular > > > dogma or belief, to any particular pattern of > > action. If you would > > > follow anything, it is no good being tethered. To > > know yourself, > > > there must be the awareness, the alertness of mind > > in which there > > is > > > freedom from all beliefs, from all idealization, > > because beliefs > > and > > > ideals only give you a color, perverting true > > perception. If you > > want > > > to know what you are, you cannot imagine or have > > belief in > > something > > > which you are not. If I am greedy, envious, violent, > > merely having > > an > > > ideal of non-violence, of non-greed, is of little > > value.... The > > > understanding of what you are, whatever it be ugly > > or beautiful, > > > wicked or mischievous the understanding of what you > > are, without > > > distortion, is the beginning of virtue. Virtue is > > essential, for it > > > gives freedom. " > > > > > > J. Krishnamurti The Book of Life - January 24 > > > > > > > > thank you Werner for this words of truth > > > > even if some people don't want to know " who " they > > are.....it can be > > of nice information.....and concept....and food for > > mind.... > > giving a " brillant " moment of some little peace and > > happiness.... > > > > but i think that Krishnamurti himSelf had some great > > fun ....in using > > himSelf.....writing beautiful words.....to himSelf > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > Dear Marc, > > Your opinion of K. does pain me. He was my first > > teacher and simply showed me how to bring great order > > into my life, and bring my attention to its true > > calling. I was 17 back then and moved to Ojai CA to > > work at the Oak grove school. I was an avide learner > > and I did gather a lot of pearls. Got bored by the > > followers, they had lost their sense of humor, and > > that killed it for me. But not him, he never lost his > > intent nor sense of humor. > > Maybe his message wasn`t transendental to you but he > > helped inumerous numbers of poeple to step onto a > > different path altogether. That has so much value.. > > Kindly, > > Patricia > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Patricia, Marc and Werner, > > Though I had an understanding of many spiritual principles as a child, > > a seeming, " I know that " , reading a book of K--Think On These Things-- > > was instrumental for/to me to access the silence behind the > thinking mind, > > where duality exists, although I was not yet assimilating all the > dualities. > > Though the major duality as I saw it, and as he proposed it was, > in essence, > > change does not occur outside. Any change is modified or accessed > > by an internal mechanism. One can not 'fix' anything being on the > 'outside'. > > I almost always felt alien, (perhaps as a direct experience as > being a 'displaced > > person' which also parallelled), an outsider to the ways of those > around me. I could > > see exactly how things related though I had no means to > communicate it as an outsider > > looking in. Over the years the subtle shift became a huge > movement thru again, a subtle > > shift-- there was absolutely no line, no mental constraint and > demarcation between > > inside and outside. There is/was only Consciousness being content > and Being Awareness, > > which also merged into the recognition of/in/as This. > > > > I, for one, am grateful to him as one of many Wayshowers... He > also had a magnificent sense > > of humour. > > > > Ana > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > > and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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