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Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige>

wrote:

>

>

> --- dennis_travis33 <dennis_travis33> a

> écrit :

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr "

> <wwoehr@p...>

> wrote:

> >

> > " The Untethered Mind

> >

> > The transformation of the world is brought about by

> the

> transformation

> > of oneself, because the self is the product and a

> part of the total

> > process of human existence. To transform oneself,

> self-knowledge is

> > essential; without knowing what you are, there is no

> basis for right

> > thought, and without knowing yourself there cannot

> be

> transformation.

> > One must know oneself as one is, not as one wishes

> to be, which is

> > merely an ideal and therefore fictitious, unreal; it

> is only that

> > which is that can be transformed, not that which you

> wish to be. To

> > know oneself as one is requires an extraordinary

> alertness of mind,

> > because what is is constantly undergoing

> transformation, change;

> and

> > to follow it swiftly the mind must not be tethered

> to any

> particular

> > dogma or belief, to any particular pattern of

> action. If you would

> > follow anything, it is no good being tethered. To

> know yourself,

> > there must be the awareness, the alertness of mind

> in which there

> is

> > freedom from all beliefs, from all idealization,

> because beliefs

> and

> > ideals only give you a color, perverting true

> perception. If you

> want

> > to know what you are, you cannot imagine or have

> belief in

> something

> > which you are not. If I am greedy, envious, violent,

> merely having

> an

> > ideal of non-violence, of non-greed, is of little

> value.... The

> > understanding of what you are, whatever it be ugly

> or beautiful,

> > wicked or mischievous the understanding of what you

> are, without

> > distortion, is the beginning of virtue. Virtue is

> essential, for it

> > gives freedom. "

> >

> > J. Krishnamurti The Book of Life - January 24

>

>

>

> thank you Werner for this words of truth

>

> even if some people don't want to know " who " they

> are.....it can be

> of nice information.....and concept....and food for

> mind....

> giving a " brillant " moment of some little peace and

> happiness....

>

> but i think that Krishnamurti himSelf had some great

> fun ....in using

> himSelf.....writing beautiful words.....to himSelf

>

> :)

>

> Marc

>

> Dear Marc,

> Your opinion of K. does pain me. He was my first

> teacher and simply showed me how to bring great order

> into my life, and bring my attention to its true

> calling. I was 17 back then and moved to Ojai CA to

> work at the Oak grove school. I was an avide learner

> and I did gather a lot of pearls. Got bored by the

> followers, they had lost their sense of humor, and

> that killed it for me. But not him, he never lost his

> intent nor sense of humor.

> Maybe his message wasn`t transendental to you but he

> helped inumerous numbers of poeple to step onto a

> different path altogether. That has so much value..

> Kindly,

> Patricia

 

Hi Patricia,

 

Krishnamurti indeed is a great teacher.....

i read few of his teachings too.....and appreciated this beautiful

words of his deep peacefully view of things......detached....

 

He wrote about to calm down the mind......and i think that this was

kind of essentiel in his teaching......

to calm down the restless mind.......and " experience " the great

benefit of it.....in all levels....

 

I know that he helped inumerous numbers of people....and that this

has much value.......

 

Sure, i believe that he " stepped out of mind " .....to write and talk

so " freely and peacefully " ......this his words come from an empty

space.....empty mind.....

 

sorry for the pain that my words caused.....

 

wish a good path and time

 

Marc

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

> >

**

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to

> change your subscription, sign in with your ID

> and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email "

> for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

>

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In a message dated 4/13/2006 6:55:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:52:05 EDT

epston

krishnamurti & Unease.

 

 

Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige

wrote:

>

>started to read U G Krishnamurti.

>Has anyone else read him here?

>I got one of his book a lllong time ago, there was

>something about him that made me really uneasy, my

>intestines got in a knot yet I forced myself to read

>him. Same reaction today. There is something I don`t

>go with. And his portrait gives me the shivers.

>Instincts are waving a red flag.

>Yet, I like some of the stuff I read last night.

>I am going to push it and then will try to understand

>what bothers me so much about him. I rarely have such

>reactions, very very rarely..

>Patricia

>

>Hi Patricia,

 

i read something about U.G.

let me know about it...

well, you are not supposed to like what he says, or his face,mm?!?

 

L.E: Basically, he is saying go away and figure it out for yourself and

don't

bother me, but since you are here, I will dominate the conversation for two

 

hours.

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/13/2006 10:41:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2006 6:55:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:52:05 EDT

> epston

> krishnamurti & Unease.

>

>

> Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige

> wrote:

> >

> >started to read U G Krishnamurti.

> >Has anyone else read him here?

> >I got one of his book a lllong time ago, there was

> >something about him that made me really uneasy, my

> >intestines got in a knot yet I forced myself to read

> >him. Same reaction today. There is something I don`t

> >go with. And his portrait gives me the shivers.

> >Instincts are waving a red flag.

> >Yet, I like some of the stuff I read last night.

> >I am going to push it and then will try to understand

> >what bothers me so much about him. I rarely have such

> >reactions, very very rarely..

> >Patricia

> >

> >Hi Patricia,

>

> i read something about U.G.

> let me know about it...

> well, you are not supposed to like what he says, or his face,mm?!?

>

> L.E: Basically, he is saying go away and figure it out for yourself and

> don't

> bother me, but since you are here, I will dominate the conversation for

> two

>

> hours.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

> Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

>

 

L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of value. After

all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. If you haven't read

Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual education.

For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? Or the zen writers, or

about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

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Nisargadatta , epston wrote:

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2006 10:41:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> ADHHUB writes:

>

> >

> > In a message dated 4/13/2006 6:55:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > Nisargadatta writes:

> >

> > Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:52:05 EDT

> > epston

> > krishnamurti & Unease.

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > >started to read U G Krishnamurti.

> > >Has anyone else read him here?

> > >I got one of his book a lllong time ago, there was

> > >something about him that made me really uneasy, my

> > >intestines got in a knot yet I forced myself to read

> > >him. Same reaction today. There is something I don`t

> > >go with. And his portrait gives me the shivers.

> > >Instincts are waving a red flag.

> > >Yet, I like some of the stuff I read last night.

> > >I am going to push it and then will try to understand

> > >what bothers me so much about him. I rarely have such

> > >reactions, very very rarely..

> > >Patricia

> > >

> > >Hi Patricia,

> >

> > i read something about U.G.

> > let me know about it...

> > well, you are not supposed to like what he says, or his

face,mm?!?

> >

> > L.E: Basically, he is saying go away and figure it out for

yourself and

> > don't

> > bother me, but since you are here, I will dominate the

conversation for

> > two

> >

> > hours.

> >

> > Larry Epston

> >

> >

> >

> > If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value

to offer.

> > Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

> >

>

> L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of

value. After

> all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. If you

haven't read

> Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual

education.

> For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? Or the zen

writers, or

> about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

>

> Larry Epston

 

 

item 1:

 

" You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of value.

After

all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. "

 

Larry..one more chance here for BIG BUCKS!...just recycle your words

of wisdom kid!

 

item2:

 

" I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual education.

For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? "

 

Here you may have something Larry. I've never read 'Guirjiff' nor

Ospensky'. Are they on TV? Do they live in Detroit? Fill us in Larry.

The library doesn't stock their stuff so maybe it's a secret

transmission or something?

 

Item 3:

 

" ...The moonies? Ect.(a new age form of etc.?)

 

OK Larry, you've let the cat out of the bag here. How long were you

studying under these whizzes?

 

Loads of Laughs Larry strikes again. Phil you get to have all the

fun!

 

........bob

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

>

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In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:48:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:05:54 EDT

epston

Re: krishnamurti

 

In a message dated 4/13/2006 10:41:37 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2006 6:55:17 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:52:05 EDT

> epston

> krishnamurti & Unease.

>

>

> Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige

> wrote:

> >

> >started to read U G Krishnamurti.

> >Has anyone else read him here?

> >I got one of his book a lllong time ago, there was

> >something about him that made me really uneasy, my

> >intestines got in a knot yet I forced myself to read

> >him. Same reaction today. There is something I don`t

> >go with. And his portrait gives me the shivers.

> >Instincts are waving a red flag.

> >Yet, I like some of the stuff I read last night.

> >I am going to push it and then will try to understand

> >what bothers me so much about him. I rarely have such

> >reactions, very very rarely..

> >Patricia

> >

> >Hi Patricia,

>

> i read something about U.G.

> let me know about it...

> well, you are not supposed to like what he says, or his face,mm?!?

>

> L.E: Basically, he is saying go away and figure it out for yourself and

> don't

> bother me, but since you are here, I will dominate the conversation for

> two

>

> hours.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

> Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

>

 

L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of value. After

all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. If you haven't

read

Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual education.

For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? Or the zen writers, or

about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

" Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms. The only teacher is

within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's ideas years ago and started

unlearning.

 

The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G. is that, since you don't

like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's about, and that's of interest

to me.

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/14/2006 11:49:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

>

> >Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

> >

>

> L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of value. After

>

> all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. If you haven't

> read

> Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual education.

>

> For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? Or the zen writers, or

> about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> " Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms. The only teacher is

> within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's ideas years ago and

> started

> unlearning.

>

> The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G. is that, since you don't

>

> like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's about, and that's of interest

>

> to me.

>

>

L.E: Are you being funny Phil? Like if I say it's garbage, you are going to

eat it to prove it isn't garbage? And that my not liking him is a motivation

for you to read him? What's the sense of that?

I asked you what you read, not if you were reading anything, but you didn't

answer my question. So how much have you unlearned and what was it you learned

and then had to unlearn? Perhaps you are correct, that verbally, " spiritual e

ducation " is a contraction in terms, but in reality, or ordinary life, most

people know what I am asking. What did you read long ago when you didn't know

the only teacher is within.

And remember, you as Phil are not the only one here, and the " within " of

others may well connect and relate to my abd your " within. " There exist people

outside of our body that may teach us something of value, even in the spiritual

area. But perhaps that doesn't include you.

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

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--- ADHHUB a écrit :

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/14/2006 2:48:11 AM Pacific

Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 05:05:54 EDT

epston

Re: krishnamurti

 

In a message dated 4/13/2006 10:41:37 PM Pacific

Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

>

> In a message dated 4/13/2006 6:55:17 PM Pacific

Daylight Time,

> Nisargadatta writes:

>

> Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:52:05 EDT

> epston

> krishnamurti & Unease.

>

>

> Nisargadatta , OConnor

Patricia <gdtige

> wrote:

> >

> >started to read U G Krishnamurti.

> >Has anyone else read him here?

> >I got one of his book a lllong time ago, there

was

> >something about him that made me really uneasy,

my

> >intestines got in a knot yet I forced myself to

read

> >him. Same reaction today. There is something I

don`t

> >go with. And his portrait gives me the shivers.

> >Instincts are waving a red flag.

> >Yet, I like some of the stuff I read last night.

> >I am going to push it and then will try to

understand

> >what bothers me so much about him. I rarely have

such

> >reactions, very very rarely..

> >Patricia

> >

> >Hi Patricia,

>

> i read something about U.G.

> let me know about it...

> well, you are not supposed to like what he says, or

his face,mm?!?

>

> L.E: Basically, he is saying go away and figure it

out for yourself and

> don't

> bother me, but since you are here, I will

dominate the conversation for

> two

>

> hours.

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has

something of value to offer.

> Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

>

 

L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find

something of value. After

all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of

it. If you haven't

read

Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you

spiritual education.

For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky?

Or the zen writers, or

about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

" Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms. The

only teacher is

within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's

ideas years ago and started

unlearning.

 

The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G. is

that, since you don't

like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's about,

and that's of interest

to me.

...................................

 

Spiritual unlearning...that`s good Phil!

 

P

 

 

 

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--- epston a écrit :

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/14/2006 11:49:25 AM Pacific

Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has

something of value to offer.

>

> >Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

> >

>

> L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find

something of value. After

>

> all, some people recycle manure and get methane out

of it. If you haven't

> read

> Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in

you spiritual education.

>

> For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky?

Or the zen writers, or

> about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> " Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms.

The only teacher is

> within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's

ideas years ago and

> started

> unlearning.

>

> The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G.

is that, since you don't

>

> like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's

about, and that's of interest

>

> to me.

>

>

L.E: Are you being funny Phil? Like if I say it's

garbage, you are going to

eat it to prove it isn't garbage?

LOL

And that my not liking him is a motivation

for you to read him? What's the sense of that?

I asked you what you read, not if you were reading

anything, but you didn't

answer my question. So how much have you unlearned and

what was it you learned

and then had to unlearn? Perhaps you are correct,

that verbally, " spiritual e

ducation " is a contraction in terms, but in reality,

or ordinary life, most

people know what I am asking. What did you read long

ago when you didn't know

the only teacher is within.

And remember, you as Phil are not the only one here,

and the " within " of

others may well connect and relate to my abd your

" within. " There exist people

outside of our body that may teach us something of

value, even in the spiritual

area. But perhaps that doesn't include you.

 

Larry Epston

 

Go for it Larry! good points there.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/14/2006 9:33:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:11:21 EDT

epston

Re: krishnamurti

 

In a message dated 4/14/2006 11:49:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has something of value to offer.

 

>

> >Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

> >

>

> L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find something of value.

After

>

> all, some people recycle manure and get methane out of it. If you

haven't

> read

> Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in you spiritual

education.

>

> For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky? Or the zen writers,

or

> about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> " Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms. The only teacher is

> within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's ideas years ago and

> started

> unlearning.

>

> The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G. is that, since you

don't

>

> like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's about, and that's of

interest

>

> to me.

>

>

L.E: Are you being funny Phil? Like if I say it's garbage, you are going

to

eat it to prove it isn't garbage? And that my not liking him is a

motivation

for you to read him? What's the sense of that?

I asked you what you read, not if you were reading anything, but you didn't

answer my question. So how much have you unlearned and what was it you

learned

and then had to unlearn? Perhaps you are correct, that verbally, " spiritual

e

ducation " is a contraction in terms, but in reality, or ordinary life, most

people know what I am asking. What did you read long ago when you didn't

know

the only teacher is within.

And remember, you as Phil are not the only one here, and the " within " of

others may well connect and relate to my abd your " within. " There exist

people

outside of our body that may teach us something of value, even in the

spiritual

area. But perhaps that doesn't include you.

 

Larry Epston

 

 

 

No, it wasn't meant to be funny. I don't intend to insult, but I see a clear

avoidance of truth when it comes to ego, and since you reject U.G., I

suspected it may be because he doesn't allow for such avoidance. Since I seek

truth/Truth, I'm interested in such teachings. From what little I read last

night,

it seems I may have guessed right about it.

 

 

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant by " within " . It's realization/awareness

that is found within. This is the only way evolution of consciousness

occurs. Hearing words from anyone, no matter how true or appropriate, changes

nothing unless the potential truth of it is looked for within. The reason I'm

here

is that I very much believe that the words of others as well as my own words

in response to others, more often than not represent a current exploration

of mine and can be very helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 4/14/2006 9:33:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nisargadatta writes:

 

Sat, 15 Apr 2006 03:17:25 +0200 (CEST)

OConnor Patricia <gdtige

Re: krishnamurti

 

 

--- epston a écrit :

 

 

 

In a message dated 4/14/2006 11:49:25 AM Pacific

Daylight Time,

ADHHUB writes:

 

> If you don't like him, Larry, perhaps he has

something of value to offer.

>

> >Hmmmm....I'll check him out. Thanks.

> >

>

> L.E: You do that Phil, and perhaps you will find

something of value. After

>

> all, some people recycle manure and get methane out

of it. If you haven't

> read

> Krishnamurti, I wonder whatother gaps you have in

you spiritual education.

>

> For instance, have you read Guirjiff ans Ospensky?

Or the zen writers, or

> about hare krishna? The moonies? Ect.?

>

> Larry Epston

>

>

>

> " Spiritual education " is a contradiction in terms.

The only teacher is

> within. I pretty much stopped reading other people's

ideas years ago and

> started

> unlearning.

>

> The only reason I'm developing an interest in U.G.

is that, since you don't

>

> like him, perhaps the naked truth is what he's

about, and that's of interest

>

> to me.

>

>

L.E: Are you being funny Phil? Like if I say it's

garbage, you are going to

eat it to prove it isn't garbage?

LOL

And that my not liking him is a motivation

for you to read him? What's the sense of that?

I asked you what you read, not if you were reading

anything, but you didn't

answer my question. So how much have you unlearned and

what was it you learned

and then had to unlearn? Perhaps you are correct,

that verbally, " spiritual e

ducation " is a contraction in terms, but in reality,

or ordinary life, most

people know what I am asking. What did you read long

ago when you didn't know

the only teacher is within.

And remember, you as Phil are not the only one here,

and the " within " of

others may well connect and relate to my abd your

" within. " There exist people

outside of our body that may teach us something of

value, even in the spiritual

area. But perhaps that doesn't include you.

 

Larry Epston

 

Go for it Larry! good points there.

 

 

 

 

 

Are you paying attention to the conversation, Patricia? :)

 

 

 

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