Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 >>I just finished meditating. What a fruitless waste of time! I sat there for an hour and did nothing. Okay, well, sitting there quietly was doing something, I guess. But what was the point? I watched my thoughts come and go. Sometimes I would get lost in my thoughts and then I would realize it and go back to sitting quietly again without thinking. I would just sit there with mySelf in the sense of 'I am' and...and...WHAT??? I don't know! So what? So, I am. Big f**king deal! I know I am. >>So...was that the point? If it was, then I really don't think I missed it. How could I? If knowing I am is not the point of meditation, then what the hell else could it be? >> " Silver " (Frustrated.) .... The woman asked her man to close his eyes as she led him to the porch... It was very beautiful night. The full moon was shinning bright and some clouds were floating by. The gentle breeze was blowing with sound of ocean in the background. The woman removed her hands from the man's eyes and asked him to look up. The man looked up and appeared somewhat puzzled. Anticipating a question, the woman asked... Isn't it beautiful? The man replied, yes it is beautiful but, what's the point? .... A shocked woman thought, what this man would say about ....a child's smile ....watching children make sand castles ....playing with sea weaves ....watching the se surf, listening the sound of the waves ....watching the sunset ....lying on the beach sand She wondered if this man was an 'economist'. She wondered if 'economics' has destroyed this man's mind! She wondered if this man sees no point in... beauty, joy, peace, love... she wondered what point he sees in Life! > Slowly... > > As the man learned to make love for > long duration and the wife started > loving it more and more... he also > started doing it less frequently. > > His wife asked, why it is less > frequent now? > > The man replied, it takes " too much " > Time! > > Earlier, it used to get over in 10-15 > minutes but, now it take more than an > hour and half! > > A shocked wife asked, if thought you > enjoyed it. I thought this is what you > wanted all the while! > > If you find 'making love' taking too > much of your time... 'what else' you > want to 'save' your time for? What > would you 'rather' do? What is ultimate > pleasure for you? What is your idea of > a " good " time? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp> wrote: > > As the mind grew older, I become aware of the fruitfulness of meditation. As of now, I contemplate using Yoga, as a way to get in touch with the self. In Truth, the word Yoga means " Contemplate. " One can maintain an energy level between the eye-brown, you will feel differently. At the same time, find out who is meditating. Meditating is all there is! True meditation is an absence of the personal doership. Witnessing is all there is. S: How can you meditate *with* an absence of doership? Think about it...or not. As much as the phrase doer/non-doer/witness is bandied around please tell me how it's possible to *not* --do-- anything, even something such as witnessing involves a premise of *doing*. Personal/non- personal, it's a shuck and jive talk there of lively confusion. > >It is only the ego which identifies itself through a conditioned mind. A conditioned mind is the one that projects or predisposes about experiencing something external or magical from elsewhere. > S: How can you ever get away from the Conditioned mind? Everything is conditioned, even this great witness you speak of as being *all there is* is conditioned. It's just a **different** condition. Condition = experience. And, when you get this you stop searching after some wonderous witness type of thing that will hopefully take one beyond *this* experience and into **another** experience that is *different* and so labelled *not the same*. It's all just playing with experience. You either accept this experience or look for something else, something grander, greater, blissier, less external, more external, or magical or unmagical....the variations are myriad but however you word or phrase it or whatever angle you look from (the witness or plethora of new concepts) it's all the same. If you do not have this experience and embrace it then what do you have? Without experience what is there? So embrace it, concoct it, manipulate it and try to understand it if you will..... it's all there is baby, experience. End it and what do you have then? You call your *end* the witness, I call it just another condition. It's fine. Then again, I'm into experience and I embrace it - why deny it - it's what **I** do. the rest of the fanciful ideas is all a lively distraction. >Please remember that self-realization is a lifetime process. The self is always there, there is no need to realize anything. It is always there. One must ask oneself this question, " Am I ready for this? " > >What is the point of life? S: it seems that is the age old question, " what is the point of life? " For many here it is to experience and then debate about how it's not real, how it is imagined, illusion versus coalescence and the debate and search goes on. Must there always be a point of experience? Maybe rather than a point it's just what *you* do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp> wrote: > > Hi Friends: > > Who is there to be meditating on what, and until when? > > Meditation is a lifetime process. When the body-mind organism is ready, meditation comes naturally. Trying to force oneself to meditate while the body-mind is not ready, it is similar to forcing the fruit to ripen. > > I was never formally taught to meditate in certain postures during those eight years as a Theravada Buddhist novice monk, at a monastery. All we did was chanting in Pali and when we finished chanting, we just contemplated on silence. I learned mostly of the disciplinary side of life--that is patience and coping with solitude! > > As the mind grew older, I become aware of the fruitfulness of meditation. As of now, I contemplate using Yoga, as a way to get in touch with the self. In Truth, the word Yoga means " Contemplate. " One can maintain an energy level between the eye-brown, you will feel differently. At the same time, find out who is meditating. Meditating is all there is! True meditation is an absence of the personal doership. Witnessing is all there is. > > It is only the ego which identifies itself through a conditioned mind. A conditioned mind is the one that projects or predisposes about experiencing something external or magical from elsewhere. > > Please remember that self-realization is a lifetime process. The self is always there, there is no need to realize anything. It is always there. One must ask oneself this question, " Am I ready for this? " > > What is the point of life? > > Ramana's emphasis on Self-inquiry, " Who needs to know? " Find out who asks the question. Answers are mere illusions, knowing what questions to ask, is a way to surrender oneself to a Higher Consciousness. > > Englightenment is here and now. Quit seeking it from external source. Turn the energy inward through the self-enquiry, " Who am I? " > > With Metta, > > Nome > Hi Nome, thak you for your sharing. Reading your beautifull posting i am wondering if you put a distinction between self-realization and enlightenment, because of the fact you wrote " self-realization is a lifetime process " and " enlightenment is here and now " . or are you pointing to the fact that the whole process of life is here and now? i hope you can be clearer then me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Dear Bigwaaba, Since there is no identification of the real name, your email is used. Enlightenment is here and now. It is always here and now. While self-realization is the process which is a lifetime process, only if the self is not yet realized. Lifetime here refers to the life span, either here or another lifetime. Please remember that a self can also be realized at birth, at any given moment in life. Even if the self is not yet realized within this lifetime, however, due to restrictions of the physical realm of one's own birth (e.g, premature death or anything that restricts the free flow of life force), another lifetime is necessary. But this process depends heavily on the will of the soul. The process here refers to the Samsara (a realm of birth, suffering and death), keeps on going until a self is realized. Once a self is truly realized, the cycle (Samsara) is broken. At the moment of a self-realization, whether one is ready for this Enlightenment or not, it cannot be denied. It's like listening to what God has to say, " Sorry lad, You, as a subject, cannot deny your own self! You've always been the Subject all along! The Self has always been with you all along! It is what has been guiding you, as an inner. And the shadow of this Light is, but your very physical vehicle, the body! " Self-realization is realizing of the self, which is a mere concept, in which one can learn about one's true essence of this bliss. That is why Enlightenment is always here and now, but it just needs to be aware, but the self must be realized. The Truth is that there has no anybody, the Who, to see experience This Very Inner Light, the Truth. Again self-realization is an irreversible experience! One is no longer the same person anymore. Even if you are forcing to be the same person, you cannot. You are now, part of the Totality, not an " X or Y or Z " variable. It can only be done once. The body can still be living even after a self-realization. What Ramesh S. Balsekar mentioned on his book called, " The Ultimate Truth " about the Enlightenment is like this: Enlightenment is a lack of personal doership. One must realize that everything is part of the manifestation. Witnessing is truly needed to see this, not with eyes, but the inner vision. Others might have different point of views about this topic, based on the angels from which they look at the shadow of this Light. However, any comments or suggestions are welcome! The concepts above make a lot of sense to me personally. When I first glanced at the topic " Point of Life? " , I realized that others people might only think that this is the only " Point of Life " . Please realize that this " Point of Life " , is one of many to come. This " Point of Life " , upon an end of physical plane, is just a transition from our previous point. A " Point of Life " is evolved!!! Hope that clears some thoughts, if not, just forget about this, since all said were just concepts! " We " are beyond what these concepts or words can describe! Sincerely, Nome bigwaaba <bigwaaba wrote: Nisargadatta , bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp> wrote: > > Hi Friends: > > Who is there to be meditating on what, and until when? > > Meditation is a lifetime process. When the body-mind organism is ready, meditation comes naturally. Trying to force oneself to meditate while the body-mind is not ready, it is similar to forcing the fruit to ripen. > > I was never formally taught to meditate in certain postures during those eight years as a Theravada Buddhist novice monk, at a monastery. All we did was chanting in Pali and when we finished chanting, we just contemplated on silence. I learned mostly of the disciplinary side of life--that is patience and coping with solitude! > > As the mind grew older, I become aware of the fruitfulness of meditation. As of now, I contemplate using Yoga, as a way to get in touch with the self. In Truth, the word Yoga means " Contemplate. " One can maintain an energy level between the eye-brown, you will feel differently. At the same time, find out who is meditating. Meditating is all there is! True meditation is an absence of the personal doership. Witnessing is all there is. > > It is only the ego which identifies itself through a conditioned mind. A conditioned mind is the one that projects or predisposes about experiencing something external or magical from elsewhere. > > Please remember that self-realization is a lifetime process. The self is always there, there is no need to realize anything. It is always there. One must ask oneself this question, " Am I ready for this? " > > What is the point of life? > > Ramana's emphasis on Self-inquiry, " Who needs to know? " Find out who asks the question. Answers are mere illusions, knowing what questions to ask, is a way to surrender oneself to a Higher Consciousness. > > Englightenment is here and now. Quit seeking it from external source. Turn the energy inward through the self-enquiry, " Who am I? " > > With Metta, > > Nome > Hi Nome, thak you for your sharing. Reading your beautifull posting i am wondering if you put a distinction between self-realization and enlightenment, because of the fact you wrote " self-realization is a lifetime process " and " enlightenment is here and now " . or are you pointing to the fact that the whole process of life is here and now? i hope you can be clearer then me ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami Everybody aspires the highest fruit through the easiest way. The easiest way is the path of knowledge, which does not require any sacrifice. The highest fruit is to become the very Lord right now from this moment onwards. They like the preacher to say that they should just come out of their house to receive a heap of infinite treasure lying down before the doors. Anybody will be happiest to receive the news that, he has become eligible to join the post of district collector in whatever stage of his study to the I.A.S. Examination he is present. The post is offered to the fresh student who just joined the I.A.S. Course and also to the student who passed the I.A.S. Examination. Both are equally eligible now itself to join the same post. If the preacher says that already both have joined the post and that they have forgotten this truth, now all the effort is only to recognize that they are the district collectors. This gives the idea that there is no need of any future effort. This is the mis-interpreted philosophy of monoism (Advaita) of Sankara. Everybody is very much attracted to this path. The influence of this path is so much that no body is coming out of this illusion. It is so sweet that they are unable to leave this state. The basic misconcept is to think that the self is the superself. Self is any living being in this world. Super self is the Lord. They just find one common point i.e., the pure awareness (Chit) exists in both. The Prime Minister and his peon have several common points like pure awareness, similar form of external human body etc. Both eat and sleep similarly. Both are married and both have children. Because of these common points can you treat the Prime Minister and His peon as one and the same? Based on one common point i.e., pure awareness, how can you say that self is superself? Veda says that by the order of the Lord, the Sun is shining. In summer due to sunstroke a human being is killed. Let the Advaita scholar stand against the sunstroke and order the Sun not to kill him. When the disciples of Sankara thought that they are also the Lord, Sankara swallowed the molten lead and asked the disciples to do the same. Then they fell on the feet of Sankara. Then Sankara told " Shivah Kevaloham " , which means that only He is Shiva. The word Kevala (only) is important here. Sankara while taking bath in the ocean at Puri told " Oh! Lord! Though the qualitative identity is in between us, the quantitative difference exists. The water is common in both the sea and the wave like the pure awareness in the soul and super soul. But the quantitative difference exists and one should not forget that the entire wave is in the sea but the entire sea is not in the wave " . This is stated as a message for the sake of ordinary soul. These Advaita Scholars filter all the differentiating points and finally get the common point filtered down into the beaker as the filtrate. The differentiating points are the residue on the filter paper and the filtered common point is in the downward beaker. They see only the beaker but not the filter paper. Therefore, the whole spiritual path is twisted and confused almost all the human beings. posted by: His servant at the lotus feet of shri datta swami www.universal-spirituality.org bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp wrote: Dear Bigwaaba, Since there is no identification of the real name, your email is used. Enlightenment is here and now. It is always here and now. While self-realization is the process which is a lifetime process, only if the self is not yet realized. Lifetime here refers to the life span, either here or another lifetime. Please remember that a self can also be realized at birth, at any given moment in life. Even if the self is not yet realized within this lifetime, however, due to restrictions of the physical realm of one's own birth (e.g, premature death or anything that restricts Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 sam_t_7 <sam_t_7 wrote: Nisargadatta , bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp> wrote: > > As the mind grew older, I become aware of the fruitfulness of meditation. As of now, I contemplate using Yoga, as a way to get in touch with the self. In Truth, the word Yoga means " Contemplate. " One can maintain an energy level between the eye-brown, you will feel differently. At the same time, find out who is meditating. Meditating is all there is! True meditation is an absence of the personal doership. Witnessing is all there is. S: How can you meditate *with* an absence of doership? Think about it...or not. As much as the phrase doer/non-doer/witness is bandied around please tell me how it's possible to *not* --do-- anything, even something such as witnessing involves a premise of *doing*. Personal/non- personal, it's a shuck and jive talk there of lively confusion. NOME: " MEDITATE OR NOT " IS JUST UPTO THE READINESS OF ONE'S MIND. WHEN MEDITATING WITH A PERSONAL DOERSHIP, THAT IS THE " YOU " IS DOING IT, OR THE BODY-MIND ORGANISM IS DOING. IN TRUTH, THE REAL, " I " MUST NOT ASSOCIATE ITSELF WITH THE BODY-MIND ORGANISM, DURING MEDITATION PRACTICE. MEDITATION IS DONE. THERE IS NOBODY MEDITATING ON ANYTHING. SHOULD THE PERSONAL INVOLVEMENT IN MEDITATION IS OCCURED, THE BODY-MIND ORGANISM TAKES THE LEAD, AS SUPPOSE THE SELF, AS A RESULT, MORE PHYSICAL SUFFERING OCCURS, WHEN EXPERIENCING THE ENERGY. OF COURSE, SENSES CAN ONLY EXPERIENCE THROUGH THE BODY-MIND ORGANISM. WHILE THE BODY IS STILL LIVING, IF EXPERIENCES OF THE SELF OCCUR, THEY WILL ONLY BE REGISTERED THROUGH MEMORIES. ALL THAT WE DO IN MEDITATION IS BALANCING THE ENERGY LEVEL THROUGHOUT THE PHYSICAL BODY, TO PROPER FUNCTION ALL DIFFERENT ORGANISM. PLEASE KNOW THAT WITHIN ALL LIVING ORGANISM, THERE ARE MANY INDEPENDENT ORGANISM, FUNCTIONED THEY WAY THEY ARE PROGRAMMED TO FUNCTION. THE REAL JOB OF THE SELF OR THE ENERGY IS TO PROPERLY RESPOND OR REACT TO THE NEEDS OF ALL THESE LIVING ORANISM, DIFFERENT PARTS, IF YOU WILL. IF THERE IS TOO MUCH OF THIS ENERGY FOCUSED ON ONE LOCATION OF THE BODY PARTS, DAMAGES ARE DEFINITELY UNAVOIDABLE. EVEN THE NERVOUS SYSTEM CAN BE DESTRUCTIVE!! THAT IS WHY ONE MUST NOT MEDITATE WHEN THE MIND IS NOT READY, OTHERWISE, ONE IS GOING THROUGH WHAT IS CALLED, " SELF-HYNOSIS " . ONE MUST NOT BE FOOLED BY THE INTELLECTUALS OF THE MIND, WHICH IS LEARNED AND ADAPTED. BUT UPON THE END OF THIS BODY-MIND ORGANISM, WHAT IS THERE TO BE REMEMBERED? SOONER OR LATER, WHEN ONE IS READY, THE MIND-BODY ORGANISM WILL SURRENDER TO THIS ENERGY, OUR REAL SELF! PERSONAL OR IMPERSONAL THAT DEPENDS ON THE INVOLVEMENT OF ONE'S MIND. IF IT'S IMPERSONAL, IT MEANS LIBERATION, ELSE IT'S BONDAGE. THESE CONCEPTS MAKE PERFECT SENSE. ONE MUST FIND THE *WHO* THAT DOES NOT SEE THIS POINT. " IMPERSONAL " REFERS TO THE MANIFESTATION AND TOTALITY, WHICH IS UNIVERSAL. SOMETHING IS DONE (IMPERSONAL). I DO IT (PERSONAL). I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY HOW AND WHY THIS POINT IS RAISED. > >It is only the ego which identifies itself through a conditioned mind. A conditioned mind is the one that projects or predisposes about experiencing something external or magical from elsewhere. > S: How can you ever get away from the Conditioned mind? Everything is conditioned, even this great witness you speak of as being *all there is* is conditioned. It's just a **different** condition. Condition = experience. And, when you get this you stop searching after some wonderous witness type of thing that will hopefully take one beyond *this* experience and into **another** experience that is *different* and so labelled *not the same*. It's all just playing with experience. You either accept this experience or look for something else, something grander, greater, blissier, less external, more external, or magical or unmagical....the variations are myriad but however you word or phrase it or whatever angle you look from (the witness or plethora of new concepts) it's all the same. If you do not have this experience and embrace it then what do you have? Without experience what is there? So embrace it, concoct it, manipulate it and try to understand it if you will..... it's all there is baby, experience. End it and what do you have then? You call your *end* the witness, I call it just another condition. It's fine. Then again, I'm into experience and I embrace it - why deny it - it's what **I** do. the rest of the fanciful ideas is all a lively distraction. NOME: " How to get away from the conditioned mind... " ALWAYS KNOW THAT THE MIND CANNOT EXIST WITHOUT ONE'S CONSCIOUSNESS. IT'S THIS PURE CONSCIOUSNESS THAT IS OUR TRUE NATURE TO BALANCE THE ENERGY AMONG THE BODY'S CHAKRA POINTS. AGAIN THIS IS ALSO MERE CONCEPT. THE ENRGY IS ALL AROUND US. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE ARE INSIDE THE VACCUM OF THE FIELD OFENERGY. WHY DON'T WE KNOG? EYES CANNOT SEE THEMSELVES. WE ARE THAT. THE MIND HAS NO BASE OF ITSELF. THE MIND IS LEARNED. IT'S THIS MIND THAT SHUTDOWN THE EXPERIENCE OF THE KUNDALINI WAKEUP. IT'S LL CONDITIONED THROUGH THE SAMSAKARA (PREDISPOSITION). SAMSARA RELIES ON PREVIOUS KARMAS...AT BIRTH OR LEARNED. WORDS OR LANGUAGES ARE MERE CONCEPTS. WHAT IS THE USE OF WORDS UPON THE TRANSITION OF THIS BODY? NONE! PLEASE LOOK BEYOND THE INTELLECTUALS. IN ORDER TO WITNESS ONESELF EXPERIENCE THIS DIVINE, ONE MUST STOP SEARCHING. Conditioned mind is the Ego only. It is what blocks us from our intuitiveness! >Please remember that self-realization is a lifetime process. The self is always there, there is no need to realize anything. It is always there. One must ask oneself this question, " Am I ready for this? " > >What is the point of life? S: it seems that is the age old question, " what is the point of life? " For many here it is to experience and then debate about how it's not real, how it is imagined, illusion versus coalescence and the debate and search goes on. Must there always be a point of experience? Maybe rather than a point it's just what *you* do. NOME: THE POINT OF LIFE OR EXPERIENCE IS CONSTANT! IT'S ALWAYS HAPPENING. THERE IS LACK OF SOMEBODY TO WITNESS IT. IT IS THE SAME SIMPLE CONCEPT WITH ENLIGHTENMENT, WHICH IS ALWAYS HERE AND NOW. THE MOMENT, ONE STOPS SEEKING, IT IS THERE. BUT SOON WHEN IT IS BEING SOUGHT, IT IS VANISHED. THE TRUTH OR ENLIGHTENMENT CAN ONLY HAPPEN...! A POINT OF LIFE: IS MERE CONCEPT INVENTED BY THE MIND TO DELAY OR POSTPONE THE JOURNEY TO THE FUTURE. THERE IS NO SUCH A THING CALLED A POINT OR CIRCLE OF LIFE, ETC...! IT IS ALL INVENTED BY INTELLECTUALS. BUT WHAT A GREAT CONCEPT, IF IT HELPS THOSE WHO ARE SEARCHING FIND THIS SOLUTION, WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT SAMSARA OVER AND OVER, AND LIVE WITH LESS SUFFERING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE...! WE DO HAVE OUR PARTS IN MANY THINGS THAT WE DO WHICH CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. PEACE! ~NO-ME~ ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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