Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : Talk 80. --------- A very devoted and simple disciple had lost his only son, a child of three years. The next day he arrived at the Asramam with his family. The Master spoke with reference to them: " Training of mind helps one to bear sorrows and bereavements with ,courage. But the loss of one's offspring is said to be the worst of all grieves. Grief exists only so long as one considers oneself to be of a definite form. If the form is transcended one will know that the one Self is eternal. There is no death nor birth. That which is born is only the body. The body is the creation of the ego. But the ego is not ordinarily perceived without the body. It is always identified with the body. It is the thought which matters. Let the sensible man consider if he knew his body in deep sleep. Why does he feel it in the waking state? But, although the body was not felt in sleep, did not the Self exist then? How was he in deep sleep? How is he when awake? What is the difference? Ego rises up and that is waking. Simultaneously thoughts arise. Let him...find out to whom are the thoughts. Wherefrom do they arise? They must spring up from the conscious Self. Apprehending it even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter the realization of the one Infinite Existence becomes possible. In that state there are no individuals other than the Eternal Existence. Hence there is no thought of death or wailing. " If a man considers he is born he cannot avoid the fear of death. Let him find out if he has been born or if the Self has any birth. He will discover that the Self always exists, that the body which is born resolves itself into thought and that the emergence of thought is the root of all mischief. Find wherefrom thoughts emerge. Then you will abide in the ever- present inmost Self and be free from the idea of birth or the fear of death. " A disciple asked how to do it. M: The thoughts are only vasanas (predispositions), accumulated in innumerable births before. Their annihilation is the aim. The state free from vasanas is the primal state and eternal state of purity. D.: It is not clear yet. M: Everyone is aware of the eternal Self. He sees so many dying but still believes himself eternal. Because it is the Truth. Unwillingly the natural Truth asserts itself. The man is deluded by the intermingling of the conscious Self with the insentient body. This delusion must end. D.: How will it end? M: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor sinks. It remains Eternal. The master who has realized says so; the disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There are two ways of putting it. The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realized, Realization is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realization. Both are right;only the standpoints differ. D.: Is dhyana necessary? M: The Upanishads say that even the Earth is in eternal dhyana. D.: How does Karma help it? Will it not add to the already heavy load to be removed? M: Karma done unselfishly purifies the mind and helps to fix it in meditation. D.: What if one meditates incessantly without Karma? M: Try and see. The vasanas will not let you do it. Dhyana comes only step by step with the gradual weakening of the vasanas by the Grace of the Master. If I lost my kid, who knows, I may become mad. Egos do suffer and Egos can become mad with suffering. That is just a small, meaningless observation in a human form. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 - OConnor Patricia Nisargadatta Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:46 PM RE: Ramana on Death and Dying. --- Adithya K <adithya_comming a écrit : Talk 80. --------- A very devoted and simple disciple had lost his only son, a child of three years. The next day he arrived at the Asramam with his family. The Master spoke with reference to them: " Training of mind helps one to bear sorrows and bereavements with ,courage. But the loss of one's offspring is said to be the worst of all grieves. Grief exists only so long as one considers oneself to be of a definite form. If the form is transcended one will know that the one Self is eternal. There is no death nor birth. That which is born is only the body. The body is the creation of the ego. But the ego is not ordinarily perceived without the body. It is always identified with the body. It is the thought which matters. Let the sensible man consider if he knew his body in deep sleep. Why does he feel it in the waking state? But, although the body was not felt in sleep, did not the Self exist then? How was he in deep sleep? How is he when awake? What is the difference? Ego rises up and that is waking. Simultaneously thoughts arise. Let him...find out to whom are the thoughts. Wherefrom do they arise? They must spring up from the conscious Self. Apprehending it even vaguely helps the extinction of the ego. Thereafter the realization of the one Infinite Existence becomes possible. In that state there are no individuals other than the Eternal Existence. Hence there is no thought of death or wailing. " If a man considers he is born he cannot avoid the fear of death. Let him find out if he has been born or if the Self has any birth. He will discover that the Self always exists, that the body which is born resolves itself into thought and that the emergence of thought is the root of all mischief. Find wherefrom thoughts emerge. Then you will abide in the ever- present inmost Self and be free from the idea of birth or the fear of death. " A disciple asked how to do it. M: The thoughts are only vasanas (predispositions), accumulated in innumerable births before. Their annihilation is the aim. The state free from vasanas is the primal state and eternal state of purity. D.: It is not clear yet. M: Everyone is aware of the eternal Self. He sees so many dying but still believes himself eternal. Because it is the Truth. Unwillingly the natural Truth asserts itself. The man is deluded by the intermingling of the conscious Self with the insentient body. This delusion must end. D.: How will it end? M: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor sinks. It remains Eternal. The master who has realized says so; the disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There are two ways of putting it. The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realized, Realization is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realization. Both are right;only the standpoints differ. D.: Is dhyana necessary? M: The Upanishads say that even the Earth is in eternal dhyana. D.: How does Karma help it? Will it not add to the already heavy load to be removed? M: Karma done unselfishly purifies the mind and helps to fix it in meditation. D.: What if one meditates incessantly without Karma? M: Try and see. The vasanas will not let you do it. Dhyana comes only step by step with the gradual weakening of the vasanas by the Grace of the Master. If I lost my kid, who knows, I may become mad. Egos do suffer and Egos can become mad with suffering. That is just a small, meaningless observation in a human form. Patricia Thank you Patricia, no matter where we are in our 'spiritual heads', our hearts, well that's a matter of Truth of Being... I often have said I would not want to put my 'enlighted head' into that situation, and try it for size... Ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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