Getting to the point ((Meditation: A Waste of Time?

[Guest guest]

> > > Have you investigated the entire business

> > > of an importance to " having a point " ?

> > >

> > > Bill

> >

> > Assuming you investigated that question for yourself, how much

> > importance did you place on the investigation? Why was it

important

> > to you?

> >

> > " Silver "

>

> >>>>>>>>

> B:

> The question applies to you, but not to me.

> Why? Because it is you that effectively stated

> that " having a point " is significant when you

> said:

>

> If knowing I am is not the point of meditation,

> then what the hell else could it be?

 

<<<

S:

*****You assume I made a statement of fact when I obviously

only meant to pose a question. The question mark at the end

of the sentence, it seems to me, makes for very good evidence

of this. Furthermore, my assumption was to think that I had

effectively communicated myself to you, which is not the case

in this matter. Somehow I miscommunicated myself to you to

mean that I believe that " having a point " is significant,

which I don't. I don't have an opinion. It was a question

thrown out in confusion and frustration after my mind

snapped. I didn't expect someone to reply. But thanks.

>>>

>

> I don't know what " having a point " means to you.

> But since it is significant, apparently, to you,

> I asked you what that actually means to you.

 

<<<

S:

****Well, since we're on the topic anyway, what the heck.

I'll give you my opinion of what I think is significant about

" having a point. " What does it mean to me to " have a point? "

Not just any point but a significant one? Significance

implies meaning. Having a meaningful existence is the point.

Do I have any meaning? I know that I AM but what does that

mean, if anything? And who's asking? Why even ask in the

first place? Do I need to know the answers to all of these

questions before I can realize? And realize what? What is

there to realize, eh?

>>>

So you connect " having a point " with being meaningful...

Hence a rephrasing of the " having a point " discussion

could be, what is meaning, what is it to be meaningful?

What makes life meaningful?

 

I suggest that is a better course of investigation than

the notion of " what is it to realize? " . " To realize " is

just an idea, really, and not a particularly important

one. Things must start " at home " , with oneself to be

real.

 

So what is it for the moment to be meaningful for you?

It certainly must be looked at from the perspective of

the moment, of now, to be really meaningful, would you

agree?

 

 

B:

> So now I ask you, *is* " having a point " signficant,

> important to you? You don't have to tell me your

> response. I just offer the question in relation

> to your general question about the signficance of

> meditation. If you find it irrelevant, move on.

 

<<<

S:

****No, no. I won't move on. I don't see the irrelevancy

of your remarks at all. I only wish I could understand

what you mean by " having a point. "

>>>

Have we moved past the " having a point " business by

now?

 

> B:

> Oh well, having said all that perhaps I could

> give my reponse to the question:

>

> The whole idea of " what's the point of this " seems

> shallow, superficial. It's a left-brain take on

> things. The left brain doesn't like us diving into

> meditation, as meditation is a *very* right brained

> thing, and the ole left-brain doesn't want to turn

> over the reins. So when you start to meditate it

> gets annoyed and asks, " What's the point of this

> anyway? Can we move on? "

 

<<<

S:

So the point to meditation is to let the left-brain relax

while allowing the right-brain to take the driver's seat for

a while? What do you mean? What's up with this belief of

yours about the brain being divided into two halves? Left-

brain seems to strongly dislike Right-brain in your

conception of it. You concpetualize the functioning of the

brain as a two-sided electro-chemical bio- reactionary

movement between two dimensions of perception: left and

right. The world as seen through the eyes of THE LEFT BRAIN

vs. THE RIGHT BRAIN. Opposing energies. Yin and Yang. Male

and Female. Positive and Negative. These energies need not

oppose one another.

>>>

No, they need not oppose each other at all.

Perhaps if there's a " point " , that is it

 

True meditation, in my veiw, entails a vivid, acute

witnessing of " opposing energies " when they arise.

 

<<<

S:

They can be brought into harmony with the proper training but

I'm no Yoda. Lol. Sitting for hours in Meditation is not for

me. It doesn't take me There like - drumming does. Drumming,

for me, is a form of meditation, in a way. Sitting

meditation's sole purpose, it seems to me, is to give one

that sense of inner-peace and to bring oneself to that

Awareness of Oneness crap. I get more out of drumming for

twenty-five minutes than I do out of sitting there

contemplating my navel for an hour!

>>>

Meditation doesn't have to be sitting, certainly.

In fact, the most complete form of meditation is a

" meditation without ceasing " that pervades every

moment of waking like.

 

<<<

S:

You talk about quieting the Left- Brain so the Right-Brain

can come to center-stage? There is nothing like drumming to

do the trick! It's TOTALLY Right-Brain. Plus it's fun as all

hell! Beats sitting there just doing nothing. It all comes

down to the same thing but at least with an all 'round

energetic meditation activity like drumming, you get more

bang for your buck. Either route gets one There eventually.

In my opinion, sitting meditation or drumming are both

useless activities in themselves. What matters is the motive

of the meditator and the drummer. What motivates the

meditator to meditate and what motivates the drummer to drum?

Is it not love of self? Self-love is at the root of any

activity done for the purpose of satisfying a craving for

pleasure.

>>>

I couldn't agree more. And what you say about Self-love

is absolutely vital.

 

<<<

S:

Desire is a powerful enemy capable of destroying a whole

planet. Think not that it can't do you harm. It cannot

destroy you but it can hinder you from knowing Yourself

as Who You are in Reality. The mind's false dream of

painting a real picture of the world is just that: false.

No activity in which the mind is involved can take one

out of mind. Any activity which quietens the mind and

gives one a sense of inner-peace is harmless but should

it be taken as a final solution to everything? When the

motive to meditate or drum comes from Self-Love, there

could not be anything wrong with those activities.

Anything done from Love is valid. However, there is

always the perceived danger of never getting the point,

whatever that point was.

>>>

I don't share your view on desire, however. Krishnamurti

puts it better than I could:

 

Understanding desire

 

We have to understand desire; and it is very

difficult to understand something which is so vital,

so demanding, so urgent because in the very

fulfillment of desire passion is engendered, with the

pleasure and the pain of it. And if one is to

understand desire, obviously, there must be no

choice. You cannot judge desire as being good or bad,

noble or ignoble, or say, " I will keep this desire

and deny that one. " All that must be set aside if we

are to find out the truth of desire—the beauty of it,

the ugliness or whatever it may be. Desire has to be

understood

 

 

 

Bill