Moving beyond the point ((Meditation: A Waste of Time?

[Guest guest]

> " B " : So you connect " having a point " with being meaningful...

> Hence a rephrasing of the " having a point " discussion

> could be, what is meaning, what is it to be meaningful?

> What makes life meaningful?

>

> " S " : Sure. Sounds good to me. Meaningfulness in itself means

> nothing. It's a word we use to describe a state of mind. When the

> mind gives a meaning to anything it is superimposing over Reality a

> dark film through which we have difficulty seeing.

 

Perhaps we can get back to this...

I don't fully agree but would like to move to...

 

> " B " : I suggest that is a better course of investigation than

> the notion of " what is it to realize? " . " To realize " is

> just an idea, really, and not a particularly important

> one. Things must start " at home " , with oneself to be

> real.

>

> " S " : Yes, I agree with you. But what do you mean by 'with oneself

> to be real'?

 

I mean that if it is just ideas it isn't real, so we have to start

with our actual experience, and not even remembered experience,

but experience right now, in the present. Nothing else is real.

That means it isn't going to be lofty and abstract, but so what,

it's real.

 

> " B " : So what is it for the moment to be meaningful for you? It

> certainly must be looked at from the perspective of the moment, of

> now, to be really meaningful, would you agree?

>

> " S " : Yes, only the present moment, the everfreshness of Now, can

> have any real meaningful relevance. Now is all that exists, all

that

> I witness. And so, I conclude that without me, the witness of the

> present moment, nothing could exist, not even the present moment of

> Now. I have to be present before anything can be made to appear

> meaningful to my senses, including the Now. It is I who witnesses

> the present moment and it is I who gives it meaning. When I turn

my

> attention upon myself and witness the 'Who I Am', it is because I

> have appeared meaningful to myself. I only give myself meaning

> because I love myself. If it weren't for Self-love, I wouldn't

have

> the capacity to give myself any meaningful relevance. So, thank

God

> for Self-love! And when I look at the world I see it with the eyes

> of love because it is myself. Everything is myself and so I love

> everything! Love gives meaning to my existence and is the ground

of

> my being.

 

Yes. The only thing I would comment on is the " Who I Am " part.

I believe that is a myth. How can I " turn my attention on myself " ?

Really, there is no attention to turn, for me at least.

I'm just wide-open and it's all happening.

I don't have choices like " turning my attention " .

 

Real attention seems to me to be full-wide-out-open. No compromise.

 

> " B " : Have we moved past the " having a point " business by

> now?

>

> " S " : Yes, I believe so, lol.

>

> " B " : True meditation, in my veiw, entails a vivid, acute

> witnessing of " opposing energies " when they arise.

>

> " S " : Yes. Exactly. Good... er...point.

 

 

I have more to say about " meaningful " etc. but will pass it back

to you for now.

 

Bill