Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 In a message dated 1/28/2006 2:56:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, silver-1069 writes: > Silver writes: > > > >>How do I explain to my friends what I believe? I have > >>friends that are Catholic, Hindu, Wiccan, Atheist, Protestant, you > >>name it. If they ask me what I believe, I tell them I have no > >>beliefs > >> > >>A little contradiction here? > >> > >>Larry > > ****I know! It doesn't make sense to me either. So how do you > explain it? > > " Silver " L.E: I'd agree that you probably do not have or hold any beliefs and you are worried about it, and think you may be missing something that everyone else seems to have, and wondering if there is anything wrong with you. Beliefs are part of the occupied mind, the thought fabric that limits awareness of the Infinite Life. Without them, you are free to be one with infinite being, your deepest identity and self. larry epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/28/2006 2:56:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, > silver-1069@h... writes: > > > Silver writes: > > > > > >>How do I explain to my friends what I believe? I have > > >>friends that are Catholic, Hindu, Wiccan, Atheist, Protestant, you > > >>name it. If they ask me what I believe, I tell them I have no > > >>beliefs > > >> > > >>A little contradiction here? > > >> > > >>Larry > > > > ****I know! It doesn't make sense to me either. So how do you > > explain it? > > > > " Silver " > > L.E: I'd agree that you probably do not have or hold any beliefs and you are > worried about it, and think you may be missing something that everyone else > seems to have, and wondering if there is anything wrong with you. > Beliefs are part of the occupied mind, the thought fabric that limits > awareness of the Infinite Life. Without them, you are free to be one with infinite > being, your deepest identity and self. > > larry epston > www.epston.com Good stuff. Thank you. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. Werner Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/28/2006 2:56:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, > silver-1069@h... writes: > > > Silver writes: > > > > > >>How do I explain to my friends what I believe? I have > > >>friends that are Catholic, Hindu, Wiccan, Atheist, Protestant, you > > >>name it. If they ask me what I believe, I tell them I have no > > >>beliefs > > >> > > >>A little contradiction here? > > >> > > >>Larry > > > > ****I know! It doesn't make sense to me either. So how do you > > explain it? > > > > " Silver " > > L.E: I'd agree that you probably do not have or hold any beliefs and you are > worried about it, and think you may be missing something that everyone else > seems to have, and wondering if there is anything wrong with you. > Beliefs are part of the occupied mind, the thought fabric that limits > awareness of the Infinite Life. Without them, you are free to be one with infinite > being, your deepest identity and self. > > larry epston > www.epston.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 In a message dated 1/29/2006 4:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, wwoehr writes: > Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound > impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. > > Werner L.E: Experience is not belief. Always mocking, eh Werner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/29/2006 4:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > wwoehr@p... writes: > > > Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound > > impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. > > > > Werner > > L.E: Experience is not belief. > > Always mocking, eh Werner? > yes, but you can believe to have experienced... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2006 Report Share Posted January 29, 2006 ....belief always imply 'faith', faith begets concets of philosophies and religions. A mixture of all these concepts is all the source of all fears. Loving and surrendering oneself completely to the Divine, is the only solution to the Supreme Consciousness. ~nome~ bigwaaba <bigwaaba wrote: Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/29/2006 4:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > wwoehr@p... writes: > > > Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound > > impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. > > > > Werner > > L.E: Experience is not belief. > > Always mocking, eh Werner? > yes, but you can believe to have experienced... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 In a message dated 1/29/2006 7:30:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, silver-1069 writes: > Only you can be present to take in all the glory of the present > moment. Drink it in! It only lasts for but a fleeting moment. > Accept it as it is and as it comes...and goes.... Believe it > happened...or not. How often have you said to yourself, " I can't > believe this just happened to me? " You don't have to believe it. > It's over now and something else is happening Now. Let the past be > gone. Do away with it. Let it go. Don't hang onto it like a rock- > climber clinging to the face of a cliff for dear life. When you let > go, you live rather than die. If you cling to the past, you die with > the past. Personal experience must be seen as impersonal to be > appreciated fully. > > " Silver " > L.E: Masterful. Well done! Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2006 4:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > wwoehr@p... writes: > > > > > Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound > > > impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. > > > > > > Werner > > > > L.E: Experience is not belief. > > > > Always mocking, eh Werner? > > > yes, but you can believe to have experienced... In my opinion, one does not need to believe in his experience of the present moment. The Now is self-evident and requires no one's belief in it. In memory, on the other hand, one can re-live past experiences but cannot re-experience them in full once they have come and gone. Otherwise, reminiscing about the past would take as long as the actual present experience itself. One remembers small bits and fractions of what happenned but not the whole of it. And sometimes one embellishes past experiences with details that didn't actually happen in the real experience at all. Soon, the original experience becomes so distorted that all semblence to truth is gone and the original is lost and replaced by a story that now requires belief rather than acceptance. One must believe in past and future experiences but not in present ones. Past and future are made up of stories we tell ourselves, while present experiences are free from embellishment. You have no choice but to accept that whatever is happenning to you Now is happenning to YOU. And it is happenning right NOW. Depending on how important this moment is to you, soon it will vanish into the mists of memory, forever locked away in a vault somewhere in your mind. Otherwise, you will recall it as something that happenned to you at a given point in time. And then you will begin to create a story around the original experience, one that seems believable to you and to those you tell it to. One can never re-tell an experience exactly as it happened. So many stories of experiences inevitably end with, " Well, I guess you had to be there. " Yeah, I guess I did. Experience is personal to the experiencer. Everyone's experience is a personal thing. Only you can be there to experience what is going on. Only you can be present to take in all the glory of the present moment. Drink it in! It only lasts for but a fleeting moment. Accept it as it is and as it comes...and goes.... Believe it happened...or not. How often have you said to yourself, " I can't believe this just happened to me? " You don't have to believe it. It's over now and something else is happening Now. Let the past be gone. Do away with it. Let it go. Don't hang onto it like a rock- climber clinging to the face of a cliff for dear life. When you let go, you live rather than die. If you cling to the past, you die with the past. Personal experience must be seen as impersonal to be appreciated fully. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , bounthanom munxayaphom <nomemxp> wrote: > > ...belief always imply 'faith', faith begets concets of philosophies and religions. A mixture of all these concepts is all the source of all fears. Loving and surrendering oneself completely to the Divine, is the only solution to the Supreme Consciousness. ~nome~ Hello, Nome. I like your website, by the way. I'm glad to meet you. I couldn't agree with you more. Your " surrendering yourself completely to the Divine " means the same thing as my " accepting the Now as it is and as it comes...and goes.... " Krishnamurti says there are no solutions but only problems. But Nisargadatta says there are no problems at all. Thus, no solution required. What do you accept? That there are only problems or that there are no problems at all? " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 - epston Nisargadatta Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:20 PM Re: Silver-Beliefs In a message dated 1/29/2006 7:30:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, silver-1069 writes: > Only you can be present to take in all the glory of the present > moment. Drink it in! It only lasts for but a fleeting moment. > Accept it as it is and as it comes...and goes.... Believe it > happened...or not. How often have you said to yourself, " I can't > believe this just happened to me? " You don't have to believe it. > It's over now and something else is happening Now. Let the past be > gone. Do away with it. Let it go. Don't hang onto it like a rock- > climber clinging to the face of a cliff for dear life. When you let > go, you live rather than die. If you cling to the past, you die with > the past. Personal experience must be seen as impersonal to be > appreciated fully. > > " Silver " > L.E: Masterful. Well done! Larry Indeed, " Silver " Indeed, love, ana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 1/29/2006 4:04:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > wwoehr@p... writes: > > > > > > > Infinite Life and infiite being are beliefs too, but they sound > > > > impressive and sooooooooooooo spiritual. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > L.E: Experience is not belief. > > > > > > Always mocking, eh Werner? > > > > > yes, but you can believe to have experienced... > W: hello Silver, nice to read you. > In my opinion, one does not need to believe in his experience of the > present moment. The Now is self-evident and requires no one's belief > in it. W: yes, this is true because there is noone in the present moment to believe in something, there is just experiencing. > In memory, on the other hand, one can re-live past experiences but > cannot re-experience them in full once they have come and gone. > Otherwise, reminiscing about the past would take as long as the > actual present experience itself. > > One remembers small bits and fractions of what happenned but not the > whole of it. And sometimes one embellishes past experiences with > details that didn't actually happen in the real experience at all. W: yes, absolutely! but there is noone who embellishes experiences, this person is itself a memory. > Soon, the original experience becomes so distorted that all semblence > to truth is gone and the original is lost and replaced by a story > that now requires belief rather than acceptance. > > One must believe in past and future experiences but not in present > ones. Past and future are made up of stories we tell ourselves, > while present experiences are free from embellishment. You have no > choice but to accept that whatever is happenning to you Now is > happenning to YOU. And it is happenning right NOW. Depending on how > important this moment is to you, soon it will vanish into the mists > of memory, forever locked away in a vault somewhere in your mind. > Otherwise, you will recall it as something that happenned to you at a > given point in time. And then you will begin to create a story > around the original experience, one that seems believable to you and > to those you tell it to. > > One can never re-tell an experience exactly as it happened. So many > stories of experiences inevitably end with, " Well, I guess you had to > be there. " Yeah, I guess I did. > > Experience is personal to the experiencer. Everyone's experience is > a personal thing. Only you can be there to experience what is going > on. Only you can be present to take in all the glory of the present > moment. W: the glory of the present moment is the absence of the " me " , nothing else. there is noone inside the present moment. Drink it in! It only lasts for but a fleeting moment. > Accept it as it is and as it comes...and goes.... Believe it > happened...or not. How often have you said to yourself, " I can't > believe this just happened to me? " You don't have to believe it. > It's over now and something else is happening Now. Let the past be > gone. Do away with it. Let it go. Don't hang onto it like a rock- > climber clinging to the face of a cliff for dear life. When you let > go, you live rather than die. If you cling to the past, you die with > the past. Personal experience must be seen as impersonal to be > appreciated fully. W: impersonal because the fact that this experience belongs to a person is just a concept, just another thought. Not denying anything, seeing this as it is. > > " Silver " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 W: hello Silver, nice to read you. > > In my opinion, one does not need to believe in his experience of > the > > present moment. The Now is self-evident and requires no one's > belief > > in it. > > W: yes, this is true because there is noone in the present moment to > believe in something, there is just experiencing. ****Right. Only by your absence can you become fully present in the Now. > > > In memory, on the other hand, one can re-live past experiences but > > cannot re-experience them in full once they have come and gone. > > Otherwise, reminiscing about the past would take as long as the > > actual present experience itself. > > > > One remembers small bits and fractions of what happenned but not > the > > whole of it. And sometimes one embellishes past experiences with > > details that didn't actually happen in the real experience at all. > > W: yes, absolutely! but there is noone who embellishes experiences, > this person is itself a memory. ****Good point. One can also wear different coloured hats throughout the day. The differently coloured hats represent the various roles we play on a daily basis. We forget that we are not only actors playing a part in a play but also that we are the audience watching the play. We get so wrapped up in the show that we forget it's just a show. The various roles that we play throughout the day are played by a person who takes itself to be real. Where does the person go when behind the curtain? What is the person when not acting? The person is always acting, even off-stage in memory or in dream. We are role players on one level. ****But who is this who notices this all? What is This Here from which I see everything as it Is? Is it not the Self turning in upon Itself and listening to the voices of the various characters acting out their lines in the script? Or maybe not. Maybe, instead, it is the person reflecting on its own lines in the script, having become so adept at his craft that he forgets he is just playing a role. ****As the person I take myself to be - which I am not - I am but a memory in my own mind; and in the minds of others, I am a memory of their perception of me. However, I am not the person I take myself to be. > > > > Soon, the original experience becomes so distorted that all > semblence > > to truth is gone and the original is lost and replaced by a story > > that now requires belief rather than acceptance. > > > > One must believe in past and future experiences but not in present > > ones. Past and future are made up of stories we tell ourselves, > > while present experiences are free from embellishment. You have no > > choice but to accept that whatever is happenning to you Now is > > happenning to YOU. And it is happenning right NOW. Depending on > how > > important this moment is to you, soon it will vanish into the mists > > of memory, forever locked away in a vault somewhere in your mind. > > Otherwise, you will recall it as something that happenned to you at > a > > given point in time. And then you will begin to create a story > > around the original experience, one that seems believable to you > and > > to those you tell it to. > > > > One can never re-tell an experience exactly as it happened. So > many > > stories of experiences inevitably end with, " Well, I guess you had > to > > be there. " Yeah, I guess I did. > > > > Experience is personal to the experiencer. Everyone's experience > is > > a personal thing. Only you can be there to experience what is > going > > on. Only you can be present to take in all the glory of the > present > > moment. > > W: the glory of the present moment is the absence of the " me " , > nothing else. there is noone inside the present moment. ****The Now is happening inside me. I am not happening inside the Now. I am present and absent at the same time when the Now is happening inside of me. Present to experience it, absent to witness it. Nisargadatta refers to this as becoming passionately dispassionate. Or was it dispassionately passionate? Oh well, either way's good. > > Drink it in! It only lasts for but a fleeting moment. > > Accept it as it is and as it comes...and goes.... Believe it > > happened...or not. How often have you said to yourself, " I can't > > believe this just happened to me? " You don't have to believe it. > > It's over now and something else is happening Now. Let the past be > > gone. Do away with it. Let it go. Don't hang onto it like a rock- > > climber clinging to the face of a cliff for dear life. When you > let > > go, you live rather than die. If you cling to the past, you die > with > > the past. Personal experience must be seen as impersonal to be > > appreciated fully. > > W: impersonal because the fact that this experience belongs to a > person is just a concept, just another thought. Not denying anything, > seeing this as it is. ****Yes and who or what is it that sees this? It is indescribable because it cannot be correctly perceived. The eye cannot look at the eye except in the reflected light of a mirror. And so any conceptualization of who or what does the seeing or witnessing or whatever you want to call it is going to be dead wrong. It simply feels like a place deep inside me where heart merges with the nothing that becomes something and the something that becomes nothing. It feels that way but at the same time I am aware that this feeling is transient and only lasts for as long as I am thinking about it. It vanishes into nothing. Who witnesses all these types of fantasies and imaginings, somethings becoming nothings? And who or what notices them vanishing? Who then recalls these vanishings to mind? And why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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