Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age of 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through the 'thinker'. Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life trough: Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on the mind and its workings? Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker is confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can understand myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? -------- Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego through poetry. Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Monday, January 30, 2006 5:21 AM Cogito ergo sum Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age of 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through the 'thinker'. Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life trough: Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on the mind and its workings? Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker is confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can understand myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? -------- Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego through poetry. Werner Wroooooong Dear Werner, IT IS all that AND MORE... As I am, And 'you' are, Love, Ana ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Anna, It is understandable that just you want to hold high the belief that spiritual chattering, romantic flirting with words and day-dreams and to own a tireless fantasy is part of self-knowledge. No, all these are substitutions of missing self-knowlegde. Werner Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Monday, January 30, 2006 5:21 AM > Cogito ergo sum > > > Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened > chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age of > 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', > this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through > the 'thinker'. > > Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as > J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life trough: > > Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no > cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no > political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on > the mind and its workings? > Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can > understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is > creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be > antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, > and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, > ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, > the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my > wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so > confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker is > confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. > Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and > because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues > ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can understand > myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? > -------- > > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > through poetry. > > Werner > > Wroooooong > Dear Werner, > > IT IS all that AND MORE... > > As I am, > And 'you' are, > > Love, > Ana > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened > chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age of > 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', > this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through > the 'thinker'. > > Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as > J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life trough: > > Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no > cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no > political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on > the mind and its workings? > Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can > understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is > creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be > antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, > and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, > ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, > the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my > wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so > confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker is > confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. > Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and > because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues > ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can understand > myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? > -------- > > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > through poetry. > > Werner Hi Werner, reading your words of truth........ there must be sunshine in your heart.... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Ok, I'm wrong, you're right, now tell me the world according to Werner Woehr, what does it look like, what does it feel like, how does Werner REALLY think and feel. I'll be waiting... what is missing is the false thinking that something is missing by noone who is missing. And that noOne IS the false thinking... Love, Ana - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Monday, January 30, 2006 5:54 AM Re: Cogito ergo sum Anna, It is understandable that just you want to hold high the belief that spiritual chattering, romantic flirting with words and day-dreams and to own a tireless fantasy is part of self-knowledge. No, all these are substitutions of missing self-knowlegde. Werner Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Monday, January 30, 2006 5:21 AM > Cogito ergo sum > > > Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened > chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age of > 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', > this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through > the 'thinker'. > > Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as > J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life trough: > > Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no > cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no > political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on > the mind and its workings? > Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can > understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is > creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be > antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, > and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, > ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, > the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my > wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so > confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker is > confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. > Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and > because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues > ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can understand > myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? > -------- > > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > through poetry. > > Werner > > Wroooooong > Dear Werner, > > IT IS all that AND MORE... > > As I am, > And 'you' are, > > Love, > Ana > > > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Thanks for the chuckle, Marc Werner Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Sephen Jourdain who wrote the book " Confessions of an enlightened > > chain smoker " (not available in English) got realized with the age > of > > 16 when he tried with all his energy to find out who this 'sum', > > this 'I am' is which apperently found existential prove through > > the 'thinker'. > > > > Maharaj often stressed the importance of self-knowledge, same as > > J.Krishnamurti tried to stress with his teaching all his life > trough: > > > > Question: why is your teaching so purely psychological? There is no > > cosmology, no theology, no ethics, no aesthetics, no sociology, no > > political science, not even hygiene. Why do you concentrate only on > > the mind and its workings? > > Krishnamurti: For a very simple reason, Sir. If the thinker can > > understand himself, then the whole problem is solved. Then he is > > creation, he is reality; and then what he does will not be > > antisocial. Virtue is not an end in itself; virtue brings freedom, > > and there can be freedom only when the thinker, which is the mind, > > ceases. That is why one has to understand the process of the mind, > > the `I', the bundle of desires that create the `I', my property, my > > wife, my ideas, my God. Surely it is because the thinker is so > > confused that his actions are confused; it is because the thinker > is > > confused that he seeks reality, order, peace. > > Because the thinker is confused, ignorant, he wants knowledge; and > > because the thinker is in contradiction, in conflict, he pursues > > ethics to control, to guide, to support him. So, if I can > understand > > myself, the thinker, then the whole problem is solved, is it not? > > -------- > > > > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this > spiritual > > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > > through poetry. > > > > Werner > > Hi Werner, > > reading your words of truth........ > > there must be sunshine in your heart.... > > Marc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > through poetry. > > Werner >>> When you say, " Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling..., " what do you mean by " *this* Love-babbling... " ? You seem to have something particular in mind. How can I evaluate your statement when I don't know what you are referring to? In other words, one could characterize your statement as " subjective " since you assume we all know what you are thinking when you say that. Would you agree? And, if what you are saying is subjective, then how is it so distinct from whatever Love-babbling you are talking about? There may be others that experience life in a very different way than you. And if so, then it is reasonable to suppose that they might express in ways very different from you. It is hard to be sure, since I don't know what Love-babbling you are talking about, but perhaps you simply don't know the " code " to get the real message from what you are calling Love-babble. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Love babbling: All you need is Love, Love counts, God is Love, Love is all there is, Love, and everything is ok, .... etc, etc, etc Werner Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@g...> wrote: > > > Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling, not this spiritual > > soaring into blissfull heavens, it is not this constant stupid > > repeating that I am God, it is not the sermons of an inflated ego > > through poetry. > > > > Werner > > >>> > > When you say, " Self-knowledge is not this endless Love-babbling..., " > what do you mean by " *this* Love-babbling... " ? You seem to have > something particular in mind. How can I evaluate your statement > when I don't know what you are referring to? > > In other words, one could characterize your statement as > " subjective " since you assume we all know what you are > thinking when you say that. Would you agree? > > And, if what you are saying is subjective, then how is it > so distinct from whatever Love-babbling you are talking > about? > > There may be others that experience life in a very different > way than you. And if so, then it is reasonable to suppose > that they might express in ways very different from you. > It is hard to be sure, since I don't know what Love-babbling > you are talking about, but perhaps you simply don't know > the " code " to get the real message from what you are calling > Love-babble. > > > Bill > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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