Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 you look at the world....and see yourself like you look at the mirror and see yourself the appearence of the world is related to the one watching this appearence need somebody to watch.....him/herself the mirror itself don't need anybody watching something the mirror exist by itself by the mirror it's possible that something appear but the mirror is not realy related to what appear on it this mirror is the (real) witness....means, Self Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Mark, > > didnt you just write: > >...you look at the world....and see yourself like you look at the > mirror... > > and now, about your mirror Ana: > >.....in which you are all the time lost in some great and wonderful > emotions.... > > Thanks for being my mirror > Stefan > you misunderstand the world-mirror words i wrote..... i mean by this words....that in reality.....your real Self..... is never the one who is looking into the world...... to look into mirror....and world.....need an ego-mind......who is lost for this moment of time......into the confusion to this appearent world....and so him/self who is looking....is convinced to be real (Self) thats indeed the mistake...... the real witness is not " Stefan " " Ana " " Marc " .....but the detached Self most of people react in this their " mirror " ...and so....Stefan...you are trapped too....... with some awareness....this is dissolved....just like it would never have happened..... Ana could ignore this my mirror-words.....but she reacted on it....and wanted to talk about it Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > when you know this is a game > will you go on playing it? > > and having fun? there is no game for Self..... Self is not involved in any game.....It only give some time and space......as playground.....for the limited mind......dreaming to be " bigwaaba " playing with " Marc " ..... so....it doesn't make realy sense to play games....... it's easier to enjoy the inner love and peace.....to be.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > when you know this is a game > > will you go on playing it? > > > > and having fun? > > there is no game for Self..... > Self is not involved in any game.....It only give some time and > space......as playground.....for the limited mind......dreaming to > be " bigwaaba " playing with " Marc " ..... > > so....it doesn't make realy sense to play games....... > > it's easier to enjoy the inner love and peace.....to be.... > > > Marc > Marc loves to play there is no Self Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > wrote: > > > > > > when you know this is a game > > > will you go on playing it? > > > > > > and having fun? > > > > there is no game for Self..... > > Self is not involved in any game.....It only give some time and > > space......as playground.....for the limited mind......dreaming to > > be " bigwaaba " playing with " Marc " ..... > > > > so....it doesn't make realy sense to play games....... > > > > it's easier to enjoy the inner love and peace.....to be.... > > > > > > Marc > > > > Marc loves to play > > there is no Self do you realy think that this your " there is no Self " ....make any sense? it's better we don't discuss this subject because you know very well that i don't agree with your conception game-over.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > when you know this is a game > > > > will you go on playing it? > > > > > > > > and having fun? > > > > > > there is no game for Self..... > > > Self is not involved in any game.....It only give some time and > > > space......as playground.....for the limited mind......dreaming > to > > > be " bigwaaba " playing with " Marc " ..... > > > > > > so....it doesn't make realy sense to play games....... > > > > > > it's easier to enjoy the inner love and peace.....to be.... > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Marc loves to play > > > > there is no Self > > > do you realy think that this your " there is no Self " ....make any > sense? > > it's better we don't discuss this subject because you know very well > that i don't agree with your conception > > game-over.... > > > Marc > not more sense that " there is no game for Self " ...no, not more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 - bigwaaba Nisargadatta Monday, January 30, 2006 9:01 AM Re: the world-mirror Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba> wrote: > > > > when you know this is a game > > will you go on playing it? > > > > and having fun? > > there is no game for Self..... > Self is not involved in any game.....It only give some time and > space......as playground.....for the limited mind......dreaming to > be " bigwaaba " playing with " Marc " ..... > > so....it doesn't make realy sense to play games....... > > it's easier to enjoy the inner love and peace.....to be.... > > > Marc > Marc loves to play there is no Self Ana likes to play... self/no/self all of " you " are my selves... ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: >you misunderstand the world-mirror words i wrote..... to the degree one longs to be understood, one indicates that he has not understood himself. >Ana could ignore this my mirror-words.....but she reacted on it....and wanted to talk about it just like you. thats what I said. obviously you are lost in this apparent world, as you call it... but... isnt this great? you are lost in truth. all you need to NOT do is to take it PERSONAL. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > >you misunderstand the world-mirror words i wrote..... > > to the degree one longs to be understood, one indicates that he has > not understood himself. > > >Ana could ignore this my mirror-words.....but she reacted on > it....and wanted to talk about it > > just like you. thats what I said. > > obviously you are lost in this apparent world, as you call it... > but... isnt this great? you are lost in truth. all you need to NOT do > is to take it PERSONAL. > > Stefan Hi Stefan, you have nice theories about " degree one longs to be understood " .... i'm not lost in this apparent world because it is only an apparent world..... and yes....it's great to don't be lost in an apparent world i wrote already some times that i don't write here to " convince " somebody....and that so, i'm not here to find some truth....... this is a world-mirror game....nothing else..... Marc > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: >you have nice theories about " degree one longs to be understood " .... Marc, for you it might look like a theory, for me it was how I felt about your communication. I felt that you are projecting your own shortcomings on Anna. I was talking about you, not about your theory. But instead of looking into what I said, you claimed that I misunderstood your theory. Your defensive attitude at least gives the impression that you are looking for appreciation. >i'm not lost in this apparent world because it is only an apparent >world..... and yes....it's great to don't be lost in an apparent >world And is this your merit? Are you in this respect different from anybody else here? What happens to your detachedness when your belief is questioned? Do you you feel hurt? >i wrote already some times that i don't write here to " convince " >somebody....and that so, i'm not here to find some truth....... >this is a world-mirror game....nothing else..... It is surely very wise not to try to " convince " . But what if this is only a tactic to protect your beliefs. Is your inner peace built on solid ground? Here is a good place to get it checked. But only if one is willing to let his beliefs go if they prove to be useless. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > >you have nice theories about " degree one longs to be understood " .... > > Marc, for you it might look like a theory, for me it was how I felt > about your communication. I felt that you are projecting your own > shortcomings on Anna. I was talking about you, not about your theory. > But instead of looking into what I said, you claimed that I > misunderstood your theory. Your defensive attitude at least gives the > impression that you are looking for appreciation. > > >i'm not lost in this apparent world because it is only an apparent > >world..... and yes....it's great to don't be lost in an apparent >world > > And is this your merit? Are you in this respect different from anybody > else here? What happens to your detachedness when your belief is > questioned? Do you you feel hurt? > > >i wrote already some times that i don't write here to " convince " > >somebody....and that so, i'm not here to find some truth....... > >this is a world-mirror game....nothing else..... > > It is surely very wise not to try to " convince " . But what if this is > only a tactic to protect your beliefs. Is your inner peace built on > solid ground? Here is a good place to get it checked. But only if one > is willing to let his beliefs go if they prove to be useless. > > Greetings > Stefan Hi Stefan, it's clear that my " beliefs " about the " world-mirror " yesterday were directly " questioned " ......you saw the reactions on it...... to be sincere....i didn't " expect " some other kind of reactions from some people who reacted on it i'm conscient about, that the view of things.....of perceptions...... in here.....are sometimes extremely different..... and so is mine.....for sure different than the few persons who reacted intime to this " world-mirror " words.... i don't feel hurt when my views are questionned...... and i hope that others also don't feel hurt when their views are questionned...... it make no sense to hurt somebody....... and if it happen.....maybe this has something to do with ego- mind.....with attachments.....to something what is " unreal " .... and, i belief, that exactly this is the cause of " misunderstandings " here...... means, that some people take " all this " for real....and even belief that " all This Is Self " ....... and some others only take " all This " for the reflection of Self....only.....and nothing else.... Yes, i agree that this place is an opportunity for the " solid ground " to be checked...... means, the written words by oneself.....in order to " explain " oneSelf.....show well the real place of ....being..... i don't belief that my beliefs are useless..... because this beliefs are the expression of my inner peace and freedom Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Hi Marc, thanks for your answers. I have still one question... you are saying that you express your inner peace and freedom through beliefs. This is understood. But I feel you are presenting a belief which creates rather conflict than peace. Here the self... there the ego-mind. Here the true... there the false. Here the trap... there the freedom etc... The crux is, in this world we cannot have one side of a coin alone. When you say " peace " you automatically bring conflict onto the table as well. Without the existence of conflicts " peace " would be meaningless. It is true, I do not " believe " in peace as an ideal state. There is much more than that. What one already is... all inclusive... without clinging... is all. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Hi Marc, thanks for your answers. I have still one question... you are > saying that you express your inner peace and freedom through beliefs. > This is understood. But I feel you are presenting a belief which > creates rather conflict than peace. Here the self... there the > ego-mind. Here the true... there the false. Here the trap... there the > freedom etc... > > The crux is, in this world we cannot have one side of a coin alone. > When you say " peace " you automatically bring conflict onto the table > as well. Without the existence of conflicts " peace " would be meaningless. > > It is true, I do not " believe " in peace as an ideal state. There is > much more than that. What one already is... all inclusive... without > clinging... is all. > > Greetings > Stefan Hi Stefan, yes....there is much creation of " conflicts " by my words.....here will think about to " move " the place.....like others also do regularly here..... this group represent a certain " view and perception " ..... like hundreds of other groups represent their " view and perception " ..... it's clear that there is a reason why there are hundreds of different spiritual groups existing......and so, also " views and perceptions " .... people tend to feel " on the right place " .....when they feel to " share " their " view and perception " with " others " ..... by exactly this way.....there is endless " selection " going on....constantly......in the world....... ....and thats exactly what Is the caracteristic of a world...... endless categories and selections ....divided by concepts, theories, some love, some hate, some illusions, some clearness, some peace, some restless mind,....and so on it's true....and " real " ....that the conception of a world....bring this your described Two sides of the coin........ i'm realy not wondering much about.....if my words often create some " conflicts " .......thats the nature of writing and reading and talking....in a world " peace " alone....i agree....is not what could be an " ideal " state.... but this " peace " include also some nice " views and perceptions " .....on Self....or non-Self.......on truth......and so on one is already....and since the " beginning " .......the real nature Self....... and never one has been.....and will never be......this limited mind perception.....which is dreaming ....to Be......real..... it need some " inner transformation " to " see " it....like it just " is " ..... some people don't want to " give " themself some energy into this inner transformation........ and they like so much....all the Masters (if ever they accept the words of a " realised person " ).....who teach them.....to just stay like the Are......means, to do nothing....and think nothing realy about themSelf.......No-effort.....and so on...... thats a fantastic gift maybe......but i realy don't believe that this ever could bring some nice fruits.....of inner transformations......means, of loosing the ego-mind....and related attachments (illusions)....to the world.....and everything concerning the world Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33> wrote: >this group represent a certain " view and perception " ..... >like hundreds of other groups represent their " view and >perception " ..... I do not see it that way. I detect all kind of " views and perceptions " here and they constantly change along with people coming and going, and... very fascinating... people changing. But I also read here very selectively because I am not interested to follow everything. This is the only such cyberspace group for me, BTW. >i'm realy not wondering much about.....if my words often create >some " conflicts " .......thats the nature of writing and reading and >talking....in a world Yes, but I do not even think that your words are creating the conflicts. I think they represent the conflict that most of us are living in, and this may resonate with others in one or the other way. ...... >and never one has been.....and will never be......this limited mind >perception.....which is dreaming ....to Be......real..... >it need some " inner transformation " to " see " it....like it >just " is " ..... You still seem to believe that something like a " limited mind perception " does exist, that there is something bigger which is narrowed by it, and that there is somebody to whom that limiting happens and respectively who should be transformed. Have you ever seriously questioned those beliefs? What if it is exactly this view which bares the final conflict, the split. What if it is possible to let go even of this concept, which maybe was helpful for a while, but now has done its job. >some people don't want to " give " themself some energy into this inner >transformation........ and they like so much.... But maybe also " some " had the courage to look at themselves as they are... to look into the eye of death... to stand alone and naked... instead of searching for excuses. For me the idea of aspiring transformation is such an excuse. It implies time, but tomorrow never comes. But if it is possible to be what one really is... then one is it right now. And dont get me wrong, I speak as someone who has searched for such excuses often desparately for almost his whole life. >thats a fantastic gift maybe......but i realy don't believe that this >ever could bring some nice fruits.....of inner >transformations......means, of loosing the ego-mind....and related >attachments (illusions)....to the world.....and everything concerning >the world As I see it, we are the very world and whoever has promised us another world has told us lies. The desire for those nice fruits will go on and on... until those lies are unmasked. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > >this group represent a certain " view and perception " ..... > >like hundreds of other groups represent their " view and > >perception " ..... > > I do not see it that way. I detect all kind of " views and perceptions " > here and they constantly change along with people coming and going, > and... very fascinating... people changing. W: YES, MIND CHANGES, BECAUSE IT IS NOT SOLID, MORE LIKE A FLUID. But I also read here very > selectively because I am not interested to follow everything. This is > the only such cyberspace group for me, BTW. > > >i'm realy not wondering much about.....if my words often create > >some " conflicts " .......thats the nature of writing and reading and > >talking....in a world > > Yes, but I do not even think that your words are creating the > conflicts. I think they represent the conflict that most of us are > living in, and this may resonate with others in one or the other way. > > ..... > > >and never one has been.....and will never be......this limited mind > >perception.....which is dreaming ....to Be......real..... > >it need some " inner transformation " to " see " it....like it > >just " is " ..... > > You still seem to believe that something like a " limited mind > perception " does exist, that there is something bigger which is > narrowed by it, and that there is somebody to whom that limiting > happens and respectively who should be transformed. > > Have you ever seriously questioned those beliefs? What if it is > exactly this view which bares the final conflict, the split. What if > it is possible to let go even of this concept, which maybe was helpful > for a while, but now has done its job. w: OH YESSSS....NOT BY DENYING BUT BY SINCERELY SEEING THIS " SOMETHING BIGGER " IS REVEALED AS...NOTHING! > > >some people don't want to " give " themself some energy into this inner > >transformation........ and they like so much.... > > But maybe also " some " had the courage to look at themselves as they > are... to look into the eye of death... to stand alone and naked... > instead of searching for excuses. For me the idea of aspiring > transformation is such an excuse. It implies time, but tomorrow never > comes. But if it is possible to be what one really is... then one is > it right now. w: THIS IS WHAT I WAS REFERRING TOO WHEN SAYING THAT THE MASTER'S GLORY IS REVEALED FULLY IN HIS DEATH. > > And dont get me wrong, I speak as someone who has searched for such > excuses often desparately for almost his whole life. > > >thats a fantastic gift maybe......but i realy don't believe that this > >ever could bring some nice fruits.....of inner > >transformations......means, of loosing the ego-mind....and related > >attachments (illusions)....to the world.....and everything concerning > >the world > > As I see it, we are the very world and whoever has promised us another > world has told us lies. The desire for those nice fruits will go on > and on... until those lies are unmasked. > Greetings > Stefan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " > <dennis_travis33> wrote: > > Hi Stefan, you write: > You still seem to believe that something like a " limited mind > perception " does exist, that there is something bigger which is > narrowed by it, and that there is somebody to whom that limiting > happens and respectively who should be transformed. > > Have you ever seriously questioned those beliefs? What if it is > exactly this view which bares the final conflict, the split. What if > it is possible to let go even of this concept, which maybe was helpful > for a while, but now has done its job. -i tried to explain that i'm not working with (only) beliefs..... i'm not satisfied with " beliefs " .... what you belief today in.....maybe tomorrow it change whole life is kind of communication with oneSelf..... the truth is not very far away....it Is the real nature of oneSelf to develop the good communication with oneSelf is to " listen " the deep voice of oneSelf...... some call it " meditation " ..... it is true that everybody can find so....the Master in him/herSelf.... it is also true that some people don't find this....means, don't hear this deep inner voice...... the (own) inner Self.....project, for this people....a living Master...... " who " tell them.......about themSelf....... there is in reality no difference between people who listen the deep inner voice of Self......and people who listen this same words from a living Master in front of them......means, seperated kind of.....of them but then....there are also people who don't listen to anybody.....for some reason...... and identify the " Master " ....or " the inner voice " ....with everything they percieve......because they can't realy make the difference between Self....and non-Self maybe those ones.....you could tell...that they are " lost in a world " ......means, that they need some " inner voice " .....which can't be detected in themself.....and therefore are completely attached to the (reality of a) world you talk about the " split " ......caused by this my " beliefs " ..... i don't see any split between my Self....and yours therefore....everything else only appear to be a split..... i know yourSelf...like i know mySelf..... and this give me realy the peace.....to let you write and talk.....and invent nice theories ...or not......or whatever.... this doesn't matter.... you write: > But maybe also " some " had the courage to look at themselves as they > are... to look into the eye of death... to stand alone and naked... > instead of searching for excuses. For me the idea of aspiring > transformation is such an excuse. It implies time, but tomorrow never > comes. But if it is possible to be what one really is... then one is > it right now. -yes....right now is the right moment to be what one realy is..... i agree.... i don't know if some people here had this your mentionned courage.... it seem to me that some people are full time searching to feel " comfortable " with the (restless) mind they have , now and therefore....they search full time....with endless loving words.....to have an excuse.....to don't have realy a break....with all this non-sense....writing...and inventing the courage, in my point of view, is to look and watch inside oneself..... even it's endless easier to have the attention fixed " outside " .... it don't give any real peace you write: > And dont get me wrong, I speak as someone who has searched for such > excuses often desparately for almost his whole life. yes, i believe you..... maybe this your described " search " itself was not " wrong " ....or not " wasted " ..... it only was necessary to be now....what you are > you write: > As I see it, we are the very world and whoever has promised us another > world has told us lies. The desire for those nice fruits will go on > and on... until those lies are unmasked. Stefan....nobody, ever, promised you another world.....or lied to " you " ...... the only reason to percieve it like this way....is that you were lost in the world....with yourself.....for some duration of time the desire is always related to ignorance......about oneSelf best wishes Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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