Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 I have tried hard, but I cannot think of anything which is not a belief. Since seemingly everything is belief (and no distinction between " truth " and " belief " is possible), belief can as well be called truth. It makes no difference. Such things as " problems " are meaningless, since one belief trying to detect and/or solve conflicts between other beliefs does make no sense. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > I have tried hard, but I cannot think of anything which is not a belief. > > Since seemingly everything is belief (and no distinction between > " truth " and " belief " is possible), belief can as well be called truth. > It makes no difference. > > Such things as " problems " are meaningless, since one belief trying to > detect and/or solve conflicts between other beliefs does make no sense. > > Greetings > Stefan > good one Stefan. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > >> > Such things as " problems " are meaningless, since one belief trying to > detect and/or solve conflicts between other beliefs does make no sense. > > Greetings > Stefan > Hi Stefan, yes....you are right...... in reality there are no " problems " and " conflicts " ...... there is endless peace except for great ego minds....who " belief " they know something......what " others " don't know.... there are no others.....and therefore no one " who " could " know " something .....included oneself in front of formless and changless existence Itself and this " included oneself " .......is what cause endless conflicts to an ego...... but this still doesn't cause any conflict to the reality of being Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 > I have tried hard, but I cannot think of anything which is not a belief. >>> What about the word " the " . The word " the " is something, and as far as I can tell it is not a belief. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn@g...> wrote: >What about the word " the " . The word " the " is something, >and as far as I can tell it is not a belief. > >Bill Hi Bill, this is an interesting remark. But... alas... what can I say. At least your remark gives me another opportunity to explain my belief (about beliefs) in more detail. " The " is. It does not matter if meaning is attached. Even if it is perceived as a mere sound, it is still being thought. It is not possible to think without belief. Try it. Admittedly, perception without belief would be possible if there existed perception prior to thought. But this presupposes the belief in the concept of time. However I twist it: all is belief. Or: belief is all. Where there is no belief, is no " is " . There are no solutions. But when the above is fully grasped, it may dawn that there are also no problems. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Anna Ruiz nli10u > I have tried hard, but I cannot think of anything which is not a belief. >>> L.E: It's not that hard, and remember there are other verbal discriptions of experience such as: " I think " " I assume " " perhaps " etc. But you can say, " my finger is bleeding, " or " I have a headache " or I'm leaving the room. " These statements don't have to be described as beliefs. Every belief contains a thought, but every thought is not a belief. And then there's the whole range of visual, non-verbal thinking, that is also free of belief statements. Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > > > > > Anna Ruiz nli10u@c... > >>I have tried hard, but I cannot think of anything which is not a >>belief. >L.E: It's not that hard Larry, I rhink you have never tried hard, so you do not know what I am talking about. But for you I repost my explanation about it as I have written it as a response to Bill. Bill: What about the word " the " . The word " the " is something, and as far as I can tell it is not a belief. Stefan: Hi Bill, this is an interesting remark. But... alas... what can I say. At least your remark gives me another opportunity to explain my belief (about beliefs) in more detail. " The " is. It does not matter if meaning is attached. Even if it is perceived as a mere sound, it is still being thought. It is not possible to think without belief. Try it. Admittedly, perception without belief would be possible if there existed perception prior to thought. But this presupposes the belief in the concept of time. However I twist it: all is belief. Or: belief is all. Where there is no belief, is no " is " . There are no solutions. But when the above is fully grasped, it may dawn that there are also no problems. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 " The " is. It does not matter if meaning is attached. Even if it is perceived as a mere sound, it is still being thought. It is not possible to think without belief. Try it. L.E: What is the relationship between experience and belief? And how about all the other perception words, like " I think " " I know " " Maybe " or, " I perceive, cosider, examine " etc. A belief is a certain kind of thought and not thinking itself. Larry Epston www.epston.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 It is not possible to think without belief. Try it. L.E: I disagree. There are many variations to thinking and belief is just one of them. You see a world that cannot be free of beliefs, but I do. As I said before, a belief is a kind of thinking, but thinking is not constrained by beliefs. You seem so certain you are correct. Are you trying to project your belief on others? What does that accomplish? Larry Epston Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > " The " is. It does not matter if meaning is attached. Even if it is > perceived as a mere sound, it is still being thought. It is not > possible to think without belief. Try it. > > > L.E: What is the relationship between experience and belief? > And how about all the other perception words, like " I think " > " I know " " Maybe " or, " I perceive, cosider, examine " etc. > A belief is a certain kind of thought and not thinking itself. > > Larry Epston > www.epston.com Very Very Good Larry! regards, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: >L.E: What is the relationship between experience and belief? >And how about all the other perception words, like " I think " > " I know " " Maybe " or, " I perceive, cosider, examine " etc. >A belief is a certain kind of thought and not thinking itself. There is no thought without the belief that one (you call it " i " ) thinks. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@o...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , epston@a... wrote: > > >L.E: What is the relationship between experience and belief? > >And how about all the other perception words, like " I think " > > " I know " " Maybe " or, " I perceive, cosider, examine " etc. > >A belief is a certain kind of thought and not thinking itself. > > There is no thought without the belief that one (you call it " i " ) thinks. > > Stefan > yes, it seems so evident! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 In a message dated 1/31/2006 1:07:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, s.petersilge writes: > There is no thought without the belief that one (you call it " i " ) thinks. > > Stefan L.E: As long as you look at it this way, the door to the Infinite will be locked to you. Larry E. p.s. This is DeCarte's fallacy that because he thinks, he is. That is backward, and dead wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Nisargadatta , epston wrote: Stefan: >There is no thought without the belief that one (you call it " i " ) >thinks. >L.E: As long as you look at it this way, the door to the Infinite >will be locked to you. Did you only lose track of what was said or do you really believe that the key to that door are beliefs? >p.s. This is DeCarte's fallacy that because he thinks, he is. That >is backward, and dead wrong. Yes, dead wrong, I agree. But exactly the opposite have I said. For Decarte the reality of the individual person was not in question. In my view the separate person is a concept: nothing more, nothing less. A conceptual construct hold in place by... thoughts which are hold in place by... beliefs. When the unnecessary beliefs fall apart things are experienced... naturally... BTW: Please believe me, I am not interested in amateurish philosophical debates. I try to share my innermost. You have to find things out by yourself. And I hope you are able to approach this theoretical disagreement in the playful way it deserves, as the joke that it is :-) LoLiLa Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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