[NonDualPhil] guru's grace

[Guest guest]

On Jan 29, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Mark Hovila wrote:

 

> According to David Godman (www.davidgodman.org

> <http://www.davidgodman.org/>

> ) Ramana Maharshi said it was the power of Arunuchala (the hill he

> said was

> his guru) that brought about his realization. This seems to be

> supported by

> this quote I found on page 5 of Talks With Ramana Maharshi:

>

>

>

> " Is a Master (Guru) necessary for realization? " Mrs. Piggott asked

> first.

>

> M.: The realization is the result of the Master's (Guru's) grace more

> than

> teachings, lectures, meditation, etc. They are only secondary aids,

> whereas

> the former is the primary and the essential cause.

>

>

>

> Godman also says that Ramana said his " principal teaching was silence,

> by

> which he meant the wordless radiation of power and grace that he

> emanated

> all the time. The words he spoke, he said, were for the people who

> didn't

> understand these real teachings. Everything he said was therefore a

> kind of

> second-level teaching for people who were incapable of dissolving their

> sense of " I " in his powerful presence. You may understand his words,

> or at

> least think that you do, but if you think that these words constitute

> his

> teachings, then you have really misunderstood him. "

>

>

>

> Godman also tells a story of his meeting Laskshamana Swamy, a

> supposedly

> realized disciple of Ramana. He says, " Up till the time I first met

> him, I

> had been meditating intensively for most of the day for a period of

> about

> eighteen months. My mind was fairly quiet most of the time and I

> really felt

> that I was making good progress on the road to Self-realization.

> However,

> within a few seconds of being looked at by Lakshmana Swamy, I was in a

> state

> of stillness and peace that was way beyond anything that I had

> experienced

> through my own efforts. That one darshan effectively demonstrated to

> me the

> need for a human Guru. "

>

>

>

> Words such as the above quite naturally lead some people to believe

> that it

> is far more important to sit in the presence of a realized guru rather

> than

> to do meditation, self-inquiry, philosophical inquiry, etc. Are they

> wrong?

>

>

>

> I'd be interested to know what anyone here thinks about this.

>

>

>

> Mark

>

 

Hi Mark,

 

This grace, or transmission of mind with mind

could be explained in neurological terms with

the resent discovery of the mirror neuron. The

capacity of certain neurons to mimic actions,

feelings, and states of mind.

 

It's worth noting, that if most people wince

at seeing someone else in great pain, very few

get this grace, or transmission from just seeing

a realized being. It takes a very quiet receptive

mind to receive this transmission.