Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Group, I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Alec, What would you do if Niz was a liar ? Werner Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar wrote: > > > Group, > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > alec > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar wrote: > > > Group, > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > alec > Alec, what would you prefer to strive for?.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " dennis_travis33 " <dennis_travis33 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar@> > wrote: > > > > > > Group, > > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the > mind- > > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared > the > > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of > New > > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect > New > > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I > am > > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus > its > > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > > alec > > there is no point, as your intuition already knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar wrote: > > > Group, > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > alec > There's no striving since you're already that. Existince striving to be existence is part of the lila drama (and it can be fun at times). I think the terms consciousness and " the absolute beyond consciousness " sometimes confuse. Rather than thinking in terms of " state " or " being a particular city " ... think of it as " existence. " We are all part of existence and the seperation is only in our minds. If you believe in the repeating big bang theory, where was existence 100 big bangs ago? The same at it ever was, just manifesting itself in different forms. In existence the manifestation and the relationship between " you " and " guru " and " God " all become part of the spiritual dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar@> > wrote: > > > > > > Group, > > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the > mind- > > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared > the > > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of > New > > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect > New > > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I > am > > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus > its > > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > > alec > > > > There's no striving since you're already that. ******** Bullshit! This is exactly the egotistical nonsense Nisargadatta speaks out against. " Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realize the dept and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realization can break it. Go for it resolutely. " Nisargadatta Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 In a message dated 2/6/2006 7:42:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar I have a question Group, I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. alec Will some one enlighten me ::::Poof!:::: You're enlightened. Sure, I've got a concept for every occasion. The human is the experiential aspect of God, by which I mean Awareness. Experience is based on separation, as in the experiencer and that which is experienced. Experience is opposed to being, and those of us who know nothing but experiencing cannot conceive of being, nor can we imagine any value in it. We see experience as life, and as you suggest, without it there is only death. Life is what you are experiencing. If you seek enlightenment, you don't seek life, you seek to know yourself as being, which does not depend on life. Experiencing brings separation, duality and suffering. Being transcends duality, dissolves suffering and brings the knowing that you are the singular totality of all that is (NY). If you don't like that concept, I'm sure I can come up with another. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar wrote: > > > Group, > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > alec > I like Phil's magickal answer. " POOF! You're now enlighened! " Lol. His concept seems applicable, as well. My turn. Gosh, how I love this stuff! First off, I don't really know the answer but not knowing doesn't stop me from grappling with the question. You wrote, " According to him [Niz] realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of anything or feel anything at all. " Well, I remember reading somewhere in 'I Am That' how one of his questioners asked what he saw when he looked around him in the room. He said he saw people sitting quietly around the room but without any thought of judgement about them. He said he could turn around and face the other way and be completely present to the new sense impressions he was receiving. He said he could look at anyone or anything without memory of past impressions. In other words, his observation was always fresh and pure in the Now. It's not that Niz didn't have memories or feelings, it's just that he didn't value them or let them guide his observations. He gave his feelings and memories no importance. And so he could see without judgement, without memory, without feeling any compulsion to obsess about the past. His feelings or emotions arose from memory but they did not cloud or obscure his view of reality, so he could say he was beyond these sense impressions and their characteristic ability to cloud one's view of the present. He saw things from the sun's point of view. He was the sun and as such, he was self-realized. Just my humble opinion. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Group, > > > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect > of > > > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > > > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory > of > > > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the > > mind- > > > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared > > the > > > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for > that > > > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of > > New > > > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect > > New > > > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I > > am > > > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus > > its > > > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for > a > > > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > > > alec > > > > > > > There's no striving since you're already that. > > > ******** > Bullshit! This is exactly the egotistical nonsense Nisargadatta > speaks out against. > > " Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have > realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't > pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your > love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without > self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all > doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that > life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realize > the dept and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every > living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. > But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it > for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens > alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realization can break > it. Go for it resolutely. " Nisargadatta > > > Judi > happy you finally got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 According to him realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of anything or feel anything at all. >>>> But when people asked him what his " state " was like he repeatedly refused. And it is not a state in the sense you seem to be imagining. A state is something that one can go into and out of. Realizing what has been the case all along is not a state, as it has been the case all along. > what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. He does not encourage you to " attain " some *state*. He encourages you to *truly investigate* the question " who am I " , to truly witness all that arises in awareness, etc. To follow Nisargadatta's teaching is to earnestly investigate, to really go into questions such as " who am I " , to resolutely witness all that arises moment by moment, unrelentingly. It is arduous. But it is not complicated. If one hesitates because one wants to know in advance what is going to come of all that, then one is simply not ready. Bill Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar wrote: > > > Group, > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the mind- > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared the > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of New > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect New > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I am > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus its > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > alec > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 see, imho, the big problem is one doesn't love oneself until it is seen who actually loves... when I see who I am, I am Love seeing Love. and there is nothing and noone apart * Ana * and those of us who do not yet See... - bigwaaba Nisargadatta Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:40 AM Re: I have a question Nisargadatta , " Judi Rhodes " <judirhodes wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Hur " <hur@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Group, > > > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect > of > > > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > > > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory > of > > > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the > > mind- > > > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared > > the > > > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for > that > > > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of > > New > > > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect > > New > > > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I > > am > > > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus > > its > > > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for > a > > > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > > > alec > > > > > > > There's no striving since you're already that. > > > ******** > Bullshit! This is exactly the egotistical nonsense Nisargadatta > speaks out against. > > " Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have > realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't > pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your > love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without > self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all > doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that > life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realize > the dept and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every > living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. > But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it > for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens > alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realization can break > it. Go for it resolutely. " Nisargadatta > > > Judi > happy you finally got it! ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > > > > happy you finally got it! > ******** In your dreams. It doesn't work like that. Judi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Very good Judi, this type of reminder is indeed very much needed on this site. To me it also says : do the work, don`t just play with my words. Patricia > ******** Bullshit! This is exactly the egotistical nonsense Nisargadatta speaks out against. " Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. Unless you have realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love them. Don't pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be what you are. Your love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not its cause. Without self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know beyond all doubting that the same life flows through all that is and you are that life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. When you realize the dept and fullness of your love of yourself, you know that every living being and the entire universe are included in your affection. But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and fear deepens alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only self-realization can break it. Go for it resolutely. " Nisargadatta Judi ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > Very good Judi, this type of reminder is indeed very > much needed on this site. > To me it also says : do the work, don`t just play with > my words. > Patricia > dear, the work Patricia does is dreaming to have something to do. > > > > ******** > Bullshit! This is exactly the egotistical nonsense > Nisargadatta > speaks out against. > > " Do not pretend that you love others as yourself. > Unless you have > realized them as one with yourself, you cannot love > them. Don't > pretend to be what you are not, don't refuse to be > what you are. Your > love of others is the result of self-knowledge, not > its cause. Without > self-realization, no virtue is genuine. When you know > beyond all > doubting that the same life flows through all that is > and you are that > life, you will love all naturally and spontaneously. > When you realize > the dept and fullness of your love of yourself, you > know that every > living being and the entire universe are included in > your affection. > But when you look at anything as separate from you, > you cannot love it > for you are afraid of it. Alienation causes fear and > fear deepens > alienation. It is a vicious circle. Only > self-realization can break > it. Go for it resolutely. " Nisargadatta > > > Judi > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to > change your subscription, sign in with your ID > and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " > for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u wrote: > > see, imho, the big problem is > one doesn't love oneself until it is seen who actually loves... > > when I see who I am, I am Love seeing Love. > > and there is nothing and noone apart * > > Ana > > * and those of us who do not yet See... yes, but it is not a big problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " alakeshwar " <alakeshwar@> > wrote: > > > > > > Group, > > I am a big fan of Nisargadatta but there is one aspect of > > his teaching I haven't understood completely. According to him > > realizing the self is to be in a state where you have no memmory of > > anything or feel anything at all. According to him it is only the > mind- > > body which is capable of experiencing anything. He often compared > the > > state of self realization to being like Bombay or New York for that > > matter. The terror strikes in N.Y struck terror in the hearts of > New > > Yorkers but not New York. Whatever happens in N.Y does not affect > New > > York per se only the people who live there. So what's the point I > am > > trying to make? The point I am trying to make is that N.Y minus > its > > people is as dead as a dodo. So what's the point in striving for a > > state in which one is as good as dead. Will some one enlighten me. > > alec > > > > I like Phil's magickal answer. " POOF! You're now enlightened! " > Lol. His concept seems applicable, as well. > > My turn. Gosh, how I love this stuff! First off, I don't really > know the answer but not knowing doesn't stop me from grappling with > the question. > > You wrote, " According to him [Niz] realizing the self is to be in a > state where you have no memmory of anything or feel anything at > all. " > > Well, I remember reading somewhere in 'I Am That' how one of his > questioners asked what he saw when he looked around him in the room. > He said he saw people sitting quietly around the room but without any > thought of judgement about them. He said he could turn around and > face the other way and be completely present to the new sense > impressions he was receiving. He said he could look at anyone or > anything without memory of past impressions. In other words, his > observation was always fresh and pure in the Now. It's not that Niz > didn't have memories or feelings, it's just that he didn't value them > or let them guide his observations. He gave his feelings and > memories no importance. And so he could see without judgement, > without memory, without feeling any compulsion to obsess about the > past. His feelings or emotions arose from memory but they did not > cloud or obscure his view of reality, so he could say he was beyond > these sense impressions and their characteristic ability to cloud > one's view of the present. He saw things from the sun's point of > view. He was the sun and as such, he was self-realized. > > Just my humble opinion. > > " Silver " > -------------- I found the passage I had in mind when I wrote the above. Here it is: " Q[uestioner]: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you too. How does it look at your end? What do you see? " M[ahraj]: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of creating images clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud my vision. And when I turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to linger; it is at once free and fresh for the next impression. " ('I Am That'; p.425.) Notice that Niz did not deny having a memory. Elsewhere in the book, he says memory makes a poor master but a good servant. Let's see if I can find that one again. I read it at work tonight and forgot to mark it. Doh! Oh, good! Here it is in context: " Maharaj: ...What prevents you from knowing yourself as all and beyond all, is the mind based on memory. It has power over you as long as you trust it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. Deprived of attention, it will slow down and reveal the mechanism of its working. Once you know its nature and purpose, you will not allow it to create imaginary problems. " Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are real problems. " M: What problems can there be which the mind did not create? Life and death do not create problems; pains and pleasures come and go, experienced and forgotten. It is memory and anticipation that create problems of attainment and avoidance, colored by like and dislike. Truth and love are man's real nature and mind and heart are the means of its expression. " Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the heart, which does not know what it wants? " M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the light of pure awareness to function rightly. All effort at control will merely subject them to the dictates of memory. MEMORY IS A GOOD SERVANT, BUT A BAD MASTER. [Emphasis is my own here.] It effectively prevents discovery. There is no place for effort in reality.... " ('I Am That'; p.454.) Also, Niz never asks anyone to stop living their lives. He had no problem living and enjoying his own. So, I encourage you to live and enjoy yours, too. Don't stop feeling. Don't forget the things that are important like love and work and family. Make them meaningful but just treat it all like you treat a favourite movie or song. Cherish it. Learn from it. But don't take it seriously, dude! It's all lila. Most of all, HAVE A BLAST. Why not? Hold fast to what is true, beautiful and good. Learn and obey the Witche's Rede: An it harm none, do as ye wilt. Or, stick to the Golden Rule of Jesus, which pretty well says the same thing. Personally, I follow the Witche's Rede. Or try to, at least. Anyway, 'nough said. In Light and Love, " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Silver: I found the passage I had in mind when I wrote the above. Here it is: " Q[uestioner]: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you too. How does it look at your end? What do you see? " M[ahraj]: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of creating images clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud my vision. And when I turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow memory to linger; it is at once free and fresh for the next impression. " ('I Am That'; p.425.) Notice that Niz did not deny having a memory. Elsewhere in the book, he says memory makes a poor master but a good servant. Let's see if I can find that one again. I read it at work tonight and forgot to mark it. Doh! Oh, good! Here it is in context: " Maharaj: ...What prevents you from knowing yourself as all and beyond all, is the mind based on memory. It has power over you as long as you trust it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. Deprived of attention, it will slow down and reveal the mechanism of its working. Once you know its nature and purpose, you will not allow it to create imaginary problems. " Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are real problems. " M: What problems can there be which the mind did not create? Life and death do not create problems; pains and pleasures come and go, experienced and forgotten. It is memory and anticipation that create problems of attainment and avoidance, colored by like and dislike. Truth and love are man's real nature and mind and heart are the means of its expression. " Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the heart, which does not know what it wants? " M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the light of pure awareness to function rightly. All effort at control will merely subject them to the dictates of memory. MEMORY IS A GOOD SERVANT, BUT A BAD MASTER. [Emphasis is my own here.] It effectively prevents discovery. There is no place for effort in reality.... " ('I Am That'; p.454.) >>>> Perfect. People misunderstand and think that one becomes a complete blank, or something. Really it is the other way around: life goes from being a sterile cartoon to something profoundly rich and vital. Bill PS: *I Am That* in pdf form makes finding quotes so much easier, not to mention easing the burden of typing! I had the same problem with trying to find a particular quote in that big book until I found the pdf form. It can be obtained online at various places such as: http://www.shastras.com/otherbooks/iamthat/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Silver: > I found the passage I had in mind when I wrote the above. Here it is: > > " Q[uestioner]: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you > too. How does it look at your end? What do you see? > > " M[ahraj]: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of > creating images clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor > evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud > my vision. And when I turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow > memory to linger; it is at once free and fresh for the next > impression. " ('I Am That'; p.425.) > > Notice that Niz did not deny having a memory. Elsewhere in the book, > he says memory makes a poor master but a good servant. Let's see if > I can find that one again. I read it at work tonight and forgot to > mark it. Doh! > > Oh, good! Here it is in context: > > " Maharaj: ...What prevents you from knowing yourself as all and > beyond all, is the mind based on memory. It has power over you as > long as you trust it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. > Deprived of attention, it will slow down and reveal the mechanism of > its working. Once you know its nature and purpose, you will not > allow it to create imaginary problems. > > " Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are real problems. > > " M: What problems can there be which the mind did not create? Life > and death do not create problems; pains and pleasures come and go, > experienced and forgotten. It is memory and anticipation that create > problems of attainment and avoidance, colored by like and dislike. > Truth and love are man's real nature and mind and heart are the means > of its expression. > > " Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the heart, which does > not know what it wants? > > " M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the light of pure > awareness to function rightly. All effort at control will merely > subject them to the dictates of memory. MEMORY IS A GOOD SERVANT, > BUT A BAD MASTER. [Emphasis is my own here.] It effectively > prevents discovery. There is no place for effort in reality.... " > ('I Am That'; p.454.) > > >>>> > > Perfect. > > People misunderstand and think that one becomes a complete > blank, or something. Really it is the other way around: > life goes from being a sterile cartoon to something > profoundly rich and vital. > > Bill > > welcome in paradise Bill.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Bill, thank you! I didn't know the book was online. Right on! " Silver " Nisargadatta , " billrishel " <illusyn wrote: > > Silver: > I found the passage I had in mind when I wrote the above. Here it is: > > " Q[uestioner]: As I sit here, I see the room, the people. I see you > too. How does it look at your end? What do you see? > > " M[ahraj]: Nothing. I look, but I do not see in the sense of > creating images clothed with judgements. I do not describe nor > evaluate. I look, I see you, but neither attitude nor opinion cloud > my vision. And when I turn my eyes away, my mind does not allow > memory to linger; it is at once free and fresh for the next > impression. " ('I Am That'; p.425.) > > Notice that Niz did not deny having a memory. Elsewhere in the book, > he says memory makes a poor master but a good servant. Let's see if > I can find that one again. I read it at work tonight and forgot to > mark it. Doh! > > Oh, good! Here it is in context: > > " Maharaj: ...What prevents you from knowing yourself as all and > beyond all, is the mind based on memory. It has power over you as > long as you trust it; don't struggle with it; just disregard it. > Deprived of attention, it will slow down and reveal the mechanism of > its working. Once you know its nature and purpose, you will not > allow it to create imaginary problems. > > " Q: Surely, not all problems are imaginary. There are real problems. > > " M: What problems can there be which the mind did not create? Life > and death do not create problems; pains and pleasures come and go, > experienced and forgotten. It is memory and anticipation that create > problems of attainment and avoidance, colored by like and dislike. > Truth and love are man's real nature and mind and heart are the means > of its expression. > > " Q: How to bring the mind under control? And the heart, which does > not know what it wants? > > " M: They cannot work in darkness. They need the light of pure > awareness to function rightly. All effort at control will merely > subject them to the dictates of memory. MEMORY IS A GOOD SERVANT, > BUT A BAD MASTER. [Emphasis is my own here.] It effectively > prevents discovery. There is no place for effort in reality.... " > ('I Am That'; p.454.) > > >>>> > > Perfect. > > People misunderstand and think that one becomes a complete > blank, or something. Really it is the other way around: > life goes from being a sterile cartoon to something > profoundly rich and vital. > > Bill > > PS: *I Am That* in pdf form makes finding quotes > so much easier, not to mention easing the burden > of typing! I had the same problem with trying to > find a particular quote in that big book until I > found the pdf form. It can be obtained online at > various places such as: > http://www.shastras.com/otherbooks/iamthat/ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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