Guest guest Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Ok, I am sure everyone knows that in order to wake up from the dream all illusion must be illuminated and destroyed. Except, how can you elliminate the illusion if you don't know what the source of the illusion is? There must be a place where illusion ends and begins. Where is that place? What started illusion? What for? How do you know what is illusion and what is real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese wrote: > > Ok, I am sure everyone knows that in order to wake up from the dream > all illusion must be illuminated and destroyed. Except, how can you > elliminate the illusion if you don't know what the source of the > illusion is? > > There must be a place where illusion ends and begins. Where is that > place? What started illusion? What for? How do you know what is > illusion and what is real? > Understanding destroys illusion. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 >All right then. What is there to understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese wrote: > > >All right then. What is there to understand? > You have started the journey. There is no turning back. The understanding has always been with you.....waiting for your nod. That warmth that you feel....will turn into a burning.......and then a conflagration.......that will incinerate every thing you thought you owned. and in its place will be........nothing.........and everything. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is there at the end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese wrote: > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is > there at the end? > Chocolate.......and lots of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese Re: What is responsible for illusion? I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is there at the end? You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so I guess we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your questions but we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the term 'Dark night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a spiritual crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on the 'path' to awakening. A very good place. I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as the inside of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing the circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no-man's land. When one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real and no longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out of the circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and all that can be seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no longer has any real function. This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle with this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's only one death that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's entirely illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, very real. Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where the question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> wrote: > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is > > there at the end? > > > > > > Actually......you ask a meaningless question. There can be no end to something that never existed. The persona exists only in thought. That apperception......IS the understanding. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese wrote: > > Ok, I am sure everyone knows that in order to wake up from the dream > all illusion must be illuminated and destroyed. Except, how can you > elliminate the illusion if you don't know what the source of the > illusion is? > > There must be a place where illusion ends and begins. Where is that > place? What started illusion? What for? How do you know what is > illusion and what is real? Hello, the source of the illusion is this " you " ....who is dreaming to be " you " ..... destroy this " you " ....and there is waking up from.......nowhere.... Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- Step. In > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is > there at the end? > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so I guess > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your questions but > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the term 'Dark > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a spiritual > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on the 'path' to > awakening. A very good place. > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as the inside > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing the > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- man's land. When > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real and no > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out of the > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and all that can be > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no longer has > any real function. > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle with > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's only one death > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's entirely > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, very real. > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where the > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? > > Phil Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee here to sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> wrote: > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- Step. In > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is > > there at the end? > > > > > > > Chocolate.......and lots of it. > yes Toombaru is funny! i know someone, very weird people, who don't like chocolate! they aren't goinig to find the ultimate bliss...ah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- > Step. In > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing > to > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I > am > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered > real, > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So > what > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What > is > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so > I guess > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your > questions but > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the > term 'Dark > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a > spiritual > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > the 'path' to > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as > the inside > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing > the > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- > man's land. When > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real > and no > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out > of the > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and > all that can be > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no > longer has > > any real function. > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle > with > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's > only one death > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's > entirely > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, > very real. > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where > the > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? > > > > Phil > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee here to > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! > > > > " Silver " ************ But who am I to stop you? If you're ready to go, then by all means, jump! Your suffering will come to an end. I'd rather endure my suffering of the Grand Illusion for a few more lifetimes, at least until I have experienced what it's like to be a rich and famous rock star!!! " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > 1069@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- > > Step. In > > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing > > to > > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I > > am > > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered > > real, > > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. > So > > what > > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What > > is > > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so > > I guess > > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your > > questions but > > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the > > term 'Dark > > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has > a > > spiritual > > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > > the 'path' to > > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as > > the inside > > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, > encompassing > > the > > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- > > man's land. When > > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real > > and no > > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps > out > > of the > > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and > > all that can be > > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind > no > > longer has > > > any real function. > > > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no > struggle > > with > > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's > > only one death > > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's > > entirely > > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, > > very real. > > > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where > > the > > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? > > > > > > Phil > > > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a > > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee here > to > > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! > > > > > > > > " Silver " > ************ > But who am I to stop you? If you're ready to go, then by all means, > jump! Your suffering will come to an end. I'd rather endure my > suffering of the Grand Illusion for a few more lifetimes, at least > until I have experienced what it's like to be a rich and famous rock > star!!! > > " Silver " > lol read some rock star interviews and you will get a picture of how it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > 1069@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- > > > Step. In > > > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been > incenerated.Well, > > > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is > nothing > > > to > > > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. > I > > > am > > > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered > > > real, > > > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. > > So > > > what > > > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? > What > > > is > > > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, > so > > > I guess > > > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your > > > questions but > > > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with > the > > > term 'Dark > > > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who > has > > a > > > spiritual > > > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > > > the 'path' to > > > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion > as > > > the inside > > > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, > > encompassing > > > the > > > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- > > > man's land. When > > > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is > real > > > and no > > > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps > > out > > > of the > > > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, > and > > > all that can be > > > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and > ego/mind > > no > > > longer has > > > > any real function. > > > > > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no > > struggle > > > with > > > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that > there's > > > only one death > > > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. > It's > > > entirely > > > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels > very, > > > very real. > > > > > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is > where > > > the > > > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of > God? > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a > > > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee > here > > to > > > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! > > > > > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > ************ > > But who am I to stop you? If you're ready to go, then by all > means, > > jump! Your suffering will come to an end. I'd rather endure my > > suffering of the Grand Illusion for a few more lifetimes, at least > > until I have experienced what it's like to be a rich and famous > rock > > star!!! > > > > " Silver " > > > > lol > read some rock star interviews and you will get a picture of how it > is. ********* Okay, okay. Some of them can't handle it and shoot themselves. Others get all fucked up on dope. But so what? We all suffer to some degree. Life is suffering. Why not make the best of it and leave your mark on history? If I blow my brains out, the only thing anybody will ever read about me in the newpaper is my obituary, if I'm lucky. Boring! " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- 1069 wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard > Time, > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > > > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > > > > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the > First- > > > > Step. In > > > > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been > > incenerated.Well, > > > > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is > > nothing > > > > to > > > > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has > changed. > > I > > > > am > > > > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be > considered > > > > real, > > > > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove > otherwise. > > > So > > > > what > > > > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > > > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to > the > > > > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? > > What > > > > is > > > > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask > questions, > > so > > > > I guess > > > > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to > your > > > > questions but > > > > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with > > the > > > > term 'Dark > > > > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who > > has > > > a > > > > spiritual > > > > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > > > > the 'path' to > > > > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > > > > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical > illusion > > as > > > > the inside > > > > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, > > > encompassing > > > > the > > > > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a > no- > > > > man's land. When > > > > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is > > real > > > > and no > > > > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he > steps > > > out > > > > of the > > > > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, > > and > > > > all that can be > > > > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and > > ego/mind > > > no > > > > longer has > > > > > any real function. > > > > > > > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no > > > struggle > > > > with > > > > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that > > there's > > > > only one death > > > > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. > > It's > > > > entirely > > > > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels > > very, > > > > very real. > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is > > where > > > > the > > > > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of > > God? > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to > a > > > > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee > > here > > > to > > > > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > ************ > > > But who am I to stop you? If you're ready to go, then by all > > means, > > > jump! Your suffering will come to an end. I'd rather endure my > > > suffering of the Grand Illusion for a few more lifetimes, at > least > > > until I have experienced what it's like to be a rich and famous > > rock > > > star!!! > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > > lol > > read some rock star interviews and you will get a picture of how it > > is. > > ********* > > Okay, okay. Some of them can't handle it and shoot themselves. > Others get all fucked up on dope. But so what? We all suffer to > some degree. Life is suffering. Why not make the best of it and > leave your mark on history? If I blow my brains out, the only thing > anybody will ever read about me in the newpaper is my obituary, if > I'm lucky. Boring! > > " Silver " > ua! where did you get it from? gautama Siddharta's teachings?!? maybe we are getting closer to the answer of the question: what is responsible for illusion? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 15, 2006 Report Share Posted February 15, 2006 --- ADHHUB a écrit : In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese Re: What is responsible for illusion? I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is there at the end? You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so I guess we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your questions but we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the term 'Dark night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a spiritual crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on the 'path' to awakening. A very good place. I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as the inside of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing the circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no-man's land. When one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real and no longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out of the circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and all that can be seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no longer has any real function. This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle with this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's only one death that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's entirely illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, very real. Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where the question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? Phil maybe no!! I am not ready to die for anyone, God included. And yet..yes..there is some annoyance ablazed in me, that STRETCHES in a direction that has the taste of Home. And it is getting louder and louder. Patricia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 In a message dated 2/15/2006 8:20:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 Re: What is responsible for illusion? Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- Step. In > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is > there at the end? > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so I guess > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your questions but > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the term 'Dark > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a spiritual > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on the 'path' to > awakening. A very good place. > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as the inside > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing the > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- man's land. When > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real and no > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out of the > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and all that can be > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no longer has > any real function. > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle with > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's only one death > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's entirely > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, very real. > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where the > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? > > Phil Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee here to sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! " Silver " No, wait! Here's the thing, see, if I were to just.....slip....and go tumbling into the void, there'd be, like, 60 virgins waiting for me and........Oh, wait, wrong belief system. Hey, how's about just one more round of mugwort? Wadaya say? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 In a message dated 2/15/2006 4:16:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: OConnor Patricia <gdtige Re: What is responsible for illusion? --- ADHHUB a écrit : In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese Re: What is responsible for illusion? I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First-Step. In fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing to understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I am still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered real, because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So what is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What is there at the end? You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so I guess we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your questions but we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the term 'Dark night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a spiritual crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on the 'path' to awakening. A very good place. I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as the inside of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing the circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no-man's land. When one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real and no longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out of the circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and all that can be seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no longer has any real function. This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle with this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's only one death that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's entirely illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, very real. Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where the question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? Phil maybe no!! I am not ready to die for anyone, God included. And yet..yes..there is some annoyance ablazed in me, that STRETCHES in a direction that has the taste of Home. And it is getting louder and louder. Patricia Yeah, me neither. That's why I'm still here jabbering about it. Of course, I don't mean a physical death. My understanding is that we don't even experience our own physical death. Ego death is another matter. Love of God means love of Truth. We all have the conceptual understanding that the Truth is that Patricia and Phil aren't volitional entities. If we love the Truth enough, one day we'll notice that this is so. This is the only death a human can experience. Phil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > 1069@> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " bigwaaba " <bigwaaba@> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver- > > > > 1069@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard > > Time, > > > > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > > > > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > > > > > > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the > > First- > > > > > Step. In > > > > > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been > > > incenerated.Well, > > > > > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is > > > nothing > > > > > to > > > > > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has > > changed. > > > I > > > > > am > > > > > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be > > considered > > > > > real, > > > > > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove > > otherwise. > > > > So > > > > > what > > > > > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > > > > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to > > the > > > > > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the > end? > > > What > > > > > is > > > > > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask > > questions, > > > so > > > > > I guess > > > > > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to > > your > > > > > questions but > > > > > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar > with > > > the > > > > > term 'Dark > > > > > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody > who > > > has > > > > a > > > > > spiritual > > > > > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > > > > > the 'path' to > > > > > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > > > > > > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical > > illusion > > > as > > > > > the inside > > > > > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, > > > > encompassing > > > > > the > > > > > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is > a > > no- > > > > > man's land. When > > > > > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle > is > > > real > > > > > and no > > > > > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he > > steps > > > > out > > > > > of the > > > > > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an > unknown, > > > and > > > > > all that can be > > > > > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and > > > ego/mind > > > > no > > > > > longer has > > > > > > any real function. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no > > > > struggle > > > > > with > > > > > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that > > > there's > > > > > only one death > > > > > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of > ego. > > > It's > > > > > entirely > > > > > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels > > > very, > > > > > very real. > > > > > > > > > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is > > > where > > > > > the > > > > > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love > of > > > God? > > > > > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you > to > > a > > > > > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee > > > here > > > > to > > > > > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, > buddy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > ************ > > > > But who am I to stop you? If you're ready to go, then by all > > > means, > > > > jump! Your suffering will come to an end. I'd rather endure > my > > > > suffering of the Grand Illusion for a few more lifetimes, at > > least > > > > until I have experienced what it's like to be a rich and famous > > > rock > > > > star!!! > > > > > > > > " Silver " > > > > > > > > > > lol > > > read some rock star interviews and you will get a picture of how > it > > > is. > > > > ********* > > > > Okay, okay. Some of them can't handle it and shoot themselves. > > Others get all fucked up on dope. But so what? We all suffer to > > some degree. Life is suffering. Why not make the best of it and > > leave your mark on history? If I blow my brains out, the only > thing > > anybody will ever read about me in the newpaper is my obituary, if > > I'm lucky. Boring! > > > > " Silver " > > > > ua! where did you get it from? gautama Siddharta's teachings?!? > maybe we are getting closer to the answer of the question: what is > responsible for illusion? > > lol > ********* I got it from reading newspapers and listening to interviews with rich and famous rock stars. Buddah bores me. Snore. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > --- ADHHUB a écrit : > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific > Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond > the First-Step. In > fact everything that I thought I knew has been > incenerated.Well, > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there > is nothing to > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has > changed. I am > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be > considered real, > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove > otherwise. So what > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it > is > understanding, but understanding is just another > answer to the > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in > the end? What is > there at the end? > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask > questions, so I guess > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the > answers to your questions but > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly > familiar with the term 'Dark > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by > everybody who has a spiritual > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' > on the 'path' to > awakening. A very good place. > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical > illusion as the inside > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, > encompassing the > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter > that is a no-man's land. When > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the > circle is real and no > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, > he steps out of the > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an > unknown, and all that can be > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning > and ego/mind no longer has > any real function. > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there > is no struggle with > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said > that there's only one death > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death > of ego. It's entirely > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it > feels very, very real. > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? > This is where the > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the > love of God? > > Phil > > maybe no!! I am not ready to die for anyone, God > included. > And yet..yes..there is some annoyance ablazed in me, > that STRETCHES in a direction that has the taste of > Home. > And it is getting louder and louder. > > Patricia ********** Okay, maybe you should put the mugwort down, too, deary. Let's see if I can drum louder than the call of the Abyss. Or do I have to tie you both to a tree? Sheesh! " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/15/2006 8:20:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " s_i_l_v_e_r1069 " <silver-1069 > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/14/2006 5:03:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " sane_diogenese " <sane_diogenese@> > > Re: What is responsible for illusion? > > > > I know that I have started the journey. I am beyond the First- > Step. In > > fact everything that I thought I knew has been incenerated.Well, > > almost everything. There is nothing to know and there is nothing > to > > understand. Everything is the same thing. Nothing has changed. I > am > > still here. Everything that I percieve can never be considered > real, > > because there is no non-percieved evidence to prove otherwise. So > what > > is left after all has been eliminated? You say that it is > > understanding, but understanding is just another answer to the > > unanswerable question. What will I literally see in the end? What > is > > there at the end? > > > > > > > > > > You state there is nothing to know and then you ask questions, so > I guess > > we'll go with the questions. None of us has the answers to your > questions but > > we like to talk about it anyhoo. You're probly familiar with the > term 'Dark > > night of the soul', which has been hijacked by everybody who has a > spiritual > > crisis, but to me it refers to a very specific 'place' on > the 'path' to > > awakening. A very good place. > > > > I conceptualize it thusly: If we imagine the physical illusion as > the inside > > of a circle, and Reality as the outside of the circle, encompassing > the > > circle itself, there's a band around the perimeter that is a no- > man's land. When > > one is no longer convinced that what is inside the circle is real > and no > > longer believes that what he seeks can be found there, he steps out > of the > > circle. But what lies outside the circle is still an unknown, and > all that can be > > seen is an empty void where nothing has any meaning and ego/mind no > longer has > > any real function. > > > > This is the dark night of the soul. Strangely, there is no struggle > with > > this, but it's dark and very empty. It has been said that there's > only one death > > that a human ever experiences, and this is the death of ego. It's > entirely > > illusion since it never existed to begin with, but it feels very, > very real. > > > > Clearly, one cannot know oneself by two names, eh? This is where > the > > question, for me, arises; Am I willing to die for the love of God? > > > > Phil > > Please back away from the ledge, Phil. Do I have to tie you to a > tree, for God's sake? Come and sit down. I have some coffee here to > sober you up. I think you've had enough mugwort for now, buddy! > > > > " Silver " > > > > > No, wait! Here's the thing, see, if I were to just.....slip....and go > tumbling into the void, there'd be, like, 60 virgins waiting for me and........Oh, > wait, wrong belief system. Hey, how's about just one more round of mugwort? > Wadaya say? *************** *giggle-snort* You know we're going to be criticized for this, don't ya'? He-he. " Silver " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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