Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 wrote: > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being > important here). > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit > of a 'new understanding'? > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. It is the idea that it is 'your life' that is the crux of the dilemma. toombaru > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > position will differ. > > Brian > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Toom, But it is my life. It is the only life there is. Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001@> wrote: > > > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware > > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in > > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being > > important here). > > > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even > > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased > > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit > > of a 'new understanding'? > > > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss > > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. > > > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. > > > > > > It is the idea that it is 'your life' that is the crux of the dilemma. > > > toombaru > > > > > > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > > position will differ. > > > > Brian > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 wrote: > > Toom, > > But it is my life. It is the only life there is. From the perspective of the illusory self....that seems quite logical....but look deeper. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Toom, My friend, it seems that it is you that needs to look deeper. Brian Nisargadatta , " toombaru2006 " <lastrain wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001@> wrote: > > > > Toom, > > > > But it is my life. It is the only life there is. > > From the perspective of the illusory self....that seems quite logical....but look deeper. > > toombaru > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 wrote: > > Toom, > > My friend, it seems that it is you that needs to look deeper. > > Brian > Indeed, That is why I am here. A long time ago......I realized that I am only....and always...... speaking to toombaru.....who is spinning ever deeper into the mystery of self. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Nisargadatta , " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 wrote: > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being > important here). > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit > of a 'new understanding'? > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > position will differ. > > Brian > hello Brian, the puzzle is solved by putting all the pieces together in their right place, and then you can look at it and say: Oh, beautifull, I did it! Usually the final picture is already there on the box to be seen. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:58:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 precursors to moksha It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in the number of people that actual understand his message and have their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being important here). Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit of a 'new understanding'? It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones position will differ. Brian I would assume that folks lives are benefiting in various degrees to all new understandings. I'm unclear as to why exploring it might become a hindrance to clarity. At first blush, I would think just the opposite would be true. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:58:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 > precursors to moksha > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being > important here). > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit > of a 'new understanding'? > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > position will differ. > > Brian > I would assume that folks lives are benefiting in various degrees to all new > understandings. I'm unclear as to why exploring it might become a hindrance > to clarity. At first blush, I would think just the opposite would be true. > > Phil Namaste, I remember reading that Niz said only one person in Bombay can understand non-duality intellectually never mind realise it. At the time Bombay had 10 million people, today as Mumbai it is much bigger. However taking the 1 in 10 million formula, it means only 60,000 people in the planet even understand non-duality intellectually only a handful realise it................ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:58:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " mjb3000 " <mjb.001@> > precursors to moksha > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now aware > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar increase in > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not being > important here). > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or even > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better phrased > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the benefit > of a 'new understanding'? > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or discuss > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes clearer. > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your life. > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > position will differ. > > Brian > I would assume that folks lives are benefiting in various degrees to all new > understandings. I'm unclear as to why exploring it might become a hindrance > to clarity. At first blush, I would think just the opposite would be true. > > Phil Namaste, I remember reading that Niz said only one person in Bombay can understand non-duality intellectually never mind realise it. At the time Bombay had 10 million people, today as Mumbai it is much bigger. However taking the 1 in 10 million formula, it means only 60,000 people in the planet even understand non-duality intellectually only a handful realise it................ONS...Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:58:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " mjb3000 " <mjb.001@> > > precursors to moksha > > > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now > aware > > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar > increase in > > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not > being > > important here). > > > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or > even > > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better > phrased > > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the > benefit > > of a 'new understanding'? > > > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or > discuss > > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes > clearer. > > > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your > life. > > > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > > position will differ. > > > > Brian > > > I would assume that folks lives are benefiting in various degrees > to all new > > understandings. I'm unclear as to why exploring it might become a > hindrance > > to clarity. At first blush, I would think just the opposite would > be true. > > > > Phil > > Namaste, > > I remember reading that Niz said only one person in Bombay can > understand non-duality intellectually never mind realise it. At the > time Bombay had 10 million people, today as Mumbai it is much bigger. > > However taking the 1 in 10 million formula, it means only 60,000 > people in the planet even understand non-duality intellectually only > a handful realise it................ONS...Tony. > He meant that there was only one person in Bombay. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Hi Tony, I think I read that, or something else like it, as well. Though it seems that this statement contradicts the majority of what Niss was teaching. As I see it, there is no need to understand it intellectually, and I think he often said that intellectualism is often a pretty hefty drawback to getting it. I think its largly a matter of throwing away incorrect beliefs about how difficult it is, or what enlightenment would be like, and simply accepting its message....then allowing it to take hold. The largest hurdle is to accept how simple it is. Its not easy to embrace the magnitude of what he taught. I think it involves a balancing act between greatness and humilty, respecting both equally. I think the proper understanding is best described by Kasmir Shaivism, as it most directly points out who you really are. Brian On 17/02/06, Tony OClery <aoclery wrote: > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/16/2006 10:58:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " mjb3000 " <mjb.001 > > precursors to moksha > > > > It seems to me that since there seem to be so many people now > aware > > of Nisargadatta's message, there should also be a similar > increase in > > the number of people that actual understand his message and have > > their personal dilemmas more or less resolved regarding their > > relationship with their chosen diety/higher self (the name not > being > > important here). > > > > Has anyone noticed many/any people being, after a time, satisfied > > upon hearing his message and contemplating it for some time, or > even > > a few years? Perhaps by giving up talking (or probably better > phrased > > as debating) about it in these rooms, etc, and returning to their > > life as it was before becoming aware of his message, with the > benefit > > of a 'new understanding'? > > > > It just seems to me that it might be a hindrance to debate or > discuss > > it vs possibly stepping away from it and seeing if it becomes > clearer. > > > > Basically, at some point you have to be able to use it in your > life. > > > > Of course, this reflects only my current situation, everyones > > position will differ. > > > > Brian > > > I would assume that folks lives are benefiting in various degrees > to all new > > understandings. I'm unclear as to why exploring it might become a > hindrance > > to clarity. At first blush, I would think just the opposite would > be true. > > > > Phil > > Namaste, > > I remember reading that Niz said only one person in Bombay can > understand non-duality intellectually never mind realise it. At the > time Bombay had 10 million people, today as Mumbai it is much bigger. > > However taking the 1 in 10 million formula, it means only 60,000 > people in the planet even understand non-duality intellectually only > a handful realise it................ONS...Tony. ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 Nisargadatta , mjb <mjb.001 wrote: > > Hi Tony, > > I think I read that, or something else like it, as well. Though it seems > that this statement contradicts the majority of what Niss was teaching. As I > see it, there is no need to understand it intellectually, and I think he > often said that intellectualism is often a pretty hefty drawback to getting > it. > > Namaste, I think that he said 'even intellectually' is in agreement with your position...........ONS...Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Divine Message of His Holiness Shri Datta Swami There are four strong bonds, which hinder the spiritual progress. 1) The bond with the wife 2) The bond with the money 3) The bond with the child 4) The bond with ones body and life. Avadhoota can only be the soul who has cut all these four bonds. A Sanyasi could cut the first three bonds but not the fourth bond. A Sanyasi takes food, drinks water, sleeps and leaks the sperm periodically. The Sanyasi avoided the wife but not the desire for the sex. The eating, drinking, sleep and sex are the four biological needs of the body. The Avadhoota lives maintaining his body without these four needs and his body is beyond the rules of the nature. His body is a divine body maintained by the super power (Maya) of the Lord. The state of Avadhoota is complete liberation and such complete salvation is possible only by the complete grace of the Lord. Avadhoota is just an inert house of the Lord. There is no soul in that body. The soul also is a part of the nature and so the soul becomes a part of the inert house of the Lord. The Avadhoota thinks talks or does anything only by the will of the Lord. It is one system and not two in one. Avadhoota is one hundred percent Lord. It is the state of the goal and there is no journey further. He is called as Siddha and not Sadhaka. Even the Sanyasi is a Sadhaka who is still travelling towards that state. However, a stone can be also equated to Avadhoota because it also has complete salvation but the Lord is not dwelling in it. The Salvation must be attained through the devotion of the Lord, which will lead to the state of Avadhoota. If simple salvation is attained without devotion it will lead to the state of a stone. Among the three bonds the strongest bond is the bond with the children. The wife can help in the spiritual effort (Sadhana) and therefore she is called as ‘Saha Dharma Charini’. The sex, which is a biological need, is a matter of attraction of few minutes or at the maximum few hours. This little time is negligible compared to the long lifetime and the energy dedicated to the Lord. But the bond with the children persists in all the times and requires the expenditure of the energy continuously. The Bond with the money also increases due to this bond with children. For the sake of the children people become currupt and try to rob others. In such process they are doing lot of injustice. The strength of this bond is reduced by realization and with this not only the individual salvation in the upper world is achieved, but also the justice in this world can be easily established. This is the reason why the Lord spoke about the detachment of worldly bonds for the establishment of the justice. He says that He is born to establish the Justice, but He does not speak about the rules of the Justice. The Government, Police and even the courts quote the rules of Justice, which cannot establish the Justice. People are trying to misinterpret these rules and win the case. In Gita the Lord attempted for the detachment of these bonds, which are responsible for the injustice. He attacked the problem at the basic level. Therefore, the strength of the bond with the children is proportional to the injustice in the world. This bond also hinders the spiritual elevation. Unless the strongest bond is cut, salvation is impossible. Without the salvation, the single bond with the Lord is impossible. posted by: His servant at the lotus feet of shri datta swami www.universal-spirituality.org mjb <mjb.001 wrote: Hi Tony, I think I read that, or something else like it, as well. Though it seemsthat this statement contradicts the majority of what Niss was teaching. As Isee it, there is no need to understand it intellectually, and I think heoften said that intellectualism is often a pretty hefty drawback to getting Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail - it's free and works with Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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