Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 In a message dated 2/23/2006 2:27:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: about I and the dew drop Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/22/2006 2:01:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/21/2006 1:55:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's all agreeable to me. > > > The irony about self awareness is that it's what makes it possible to > > > transcend human consciousness, but it also makes ego possible. Without > > > self > > > awareness, nobody would care about transcending consciousness but > because > > of self > > > awareness, ego makes it extremely difficult. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > Actually.......impossible. > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I assume you > > mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence of > ego > > can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > Transcend: Go beyond , surpass, outstrip, outmatch, outgo, outdo, surmount, > outperform > > > > Consciousness: an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of yourself > and your > situation > > > We are told by the sages that all there is is consciousness. > > > What is the nature of this 'thing' that you propose is able to transcend > all-that-is? > > > > toombaru > > > > > Where did I propose that there is a thing that is able to transcend > all-that-is? > > Phil > Phil: " Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I assume you mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence of ego can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. " All there is is consciousness.......Can Consciousness transcend itself? toombaru In the context of consciousness pretending to be human pretending to not exist while conceptualizing that non existence, clearly so since it experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. It's best not to put God in a box. Ego would define what is possible and what is not, thereby reinforcing the walls of it's own self created prison. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Phil, you wrote " It's best not to put God in a box " . But God is a box. A box which contains your worshipping yourself. Consciousness is just a shabby little function of the brain neeeded for social beings like for example humans to share and communicate their world to and with each other. Werner Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/23/2006 2:27:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/22/2006 2:01:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/21/2006 1:55:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's all agreeable to me. > > > > The irony about self awareness is that it's what makes it possible > to > > > > transcend human consciousness, but it also makes ego possible. > Without > > > > > self > > > > awareness, nobody would care about transcending consciousness but > > because > > > of self > > > > awareness, ego makes it extremely difficult. > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually.......impossible. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I assume > you > > > mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence > of > > ego > > > can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Transcend: Go beyond , surpass, outstrip, outmatch, outgo, outdo, > surmount, > > outperform > > > > > > > > Consciousness: an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of > yourself > > and your > > situation > > > > > > We are told by the sages that all there is is consciousness. > > > > > > What is the nature of this 'thing' that you propose is able to transcend > > all-that-is? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Where did I propose that there is a thing that is able to transcend > > all-that-is? > > > > Phil > > > > > > Phil: " Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I > assume you > mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence of > ego > can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. " > > > > All there is is consciousness.......Can Consciousness transcend itself? > > > toombaru > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be human pretending to not > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, clearly so since it > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > would define what is possible and what is not, thereby reinforcing the walls > of it's own self created prison. > > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/23/2006 2:27:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/22/2006 2:01:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 2/21/2006 1:55:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's all agreeable to me. > > > > The irony about self awareness is that it's what makes it possible > to > > > > transcend human consciousness, but it also makes ego possible. > Without > > > > > self > > > > awareness, nobody would care about transcending consciousness but > > because > > > of self > > > > awareness, ego makes it extremely difficult. > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually.......impossible. > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > > > Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I assume > you > > > mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence > of > > ego > > > can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Transcend: Go beyond , surpass, outstrip, outmatch, outgo, outdo, > surmount, > > outperform > > > > > > > > Consciousness: an alert cognitive state in which you are aware of > yourself > > and your > > situation > > > > > > We are told by the sages that all there is is consciousness. > > > > > > What is the nature of this 'thing' that you propose is able to transcend > > all-that-is? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Where did I propose that there is a thing that is able to transcend > > all-that-is? > > > > Phil > > > > > > Phil: " Transcending consciousness is clearly not impossible, and so I > assume you > mean it's not possible for ego to do, which is true. But the existence of > ego > can prevent this from occurring for a time, which it does. " > > > > All there is is consciousness.......Can Consciousness transcend itself? > > > toombaru > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be human pretending to not > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, clearly so since it > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > would define what is possible and what is not, thereby reinforcing the walls > of it's own self created prison. > > Phil > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be human pretending to not > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, clearly so since it > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > would define what is possible and what is not, thereby reinforcing the walls > of it's own self created prison. > > Phil > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. I have never actually seen one of those little critters. Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table so that we can all see exactly what one looks like? toombaru It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most certainly..it feels very big and powerful and yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. Patricia ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: about I and the dew drop In a message dated 2/23/2006 9:12:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: > In the context of consciousness pretending to be human pretending to not > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, clearly so since it > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > would define what is possible and what is not, thereby reinforcing the walls > of it's own self created prison. > > Phil > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. I have never actually seen one of those little critters. Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table so that we can all see exactly what one looks like? toombaru Well, I don't have a permit to display one in public. They can be very dangerous and the health department has strict handling guidelines........ Sorry. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be > human pretending to not > > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, > clearly so since it > > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. > It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > > would define what is possible and what is not, > thereby reinforcing the walls > > of it's own self created prison. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. > > I have never actually seen one of those little > critters. > > > Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table > so that we can all see exactly what one > looks like? > > > > toombaru > > It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous > eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of > contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most > certainly..it feels very big and powerful and > yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. > Patricia > > I'm with toombaru on this one. If you pay careful attention to experiences that you consider to be " of ego " ... what tells you they are of ego? Does it take time for there to be ego or can ego evidence itself in an instant? That is a key question. If it takes time for there to be ego then it means the presence of ego is an *interpretation*. That doesn't mean that ego is really there. It is just an interpretation. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2006 Report Share Posted February 25, 2006 In a message dated 2/25/2006 1:52:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " billrishel " <illusyn Re: about I and the dew drop Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige wrote: > > > > > > > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be > human pretending to not > > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, > clearly so since it > > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. > It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > > would define what is possible and what is not, > thereby reinforcing the walls > > of it's own self created prison. > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. > > I have never actually seen one of those little > critters. > > > Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table > so that we can all see exactly what one > looks like? > > > > toombaru > > It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous > eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of > contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most > certainly..it feels very big and powerful and > yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. > Patricia > > I'm with toombaru on this one. If you pay careful attention to experiences that you consider to be " of ego " ... what tells you they are of ego? Does it take time for there to be ego or can ego evidence itself in an instant? That is a key question. If it takes time for there to be ego then it means the presence of ego is an *interpretation*. That doesn't mean that ego is really there. It is just an interpretation. Bill I don't really think there's anyone on the other side of this discussion, Bill. Ego is a concept that defines a set of self referential thoughts. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/25/2006 1:52:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " billrishel " <illusyn > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be > > human pretending to not > > > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, > > clearly so since it > > > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. > > It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > > > would define what is possible and what is not, > > thereby reinforcing the walls > > > of it's own self created prison. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. > > > > I have never actually seen one of those little > > critters. > > > > > > Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table > > so that we can all see exactly what one > > looks like? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous > > eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of > > contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most > > certainly..it feels very big and powerful and > > yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. > > Patricia > > > > > I'm with toombaru on this one. > > If you pay careful attention to experiences > that you consider to be " of ego " ... > what tells you they are of ego? > > Does it take time for there to be > ego or can ego evidence itself in > an instant? That is a key question. > > If it takes time for there to be ego > then it means the presence of ego > is an *interpretation*. That doesn't > mean that ego is really there. It is > just an interpretation. > > > Bill > > > > I don't really think there's anyone on the other side of this discussion, > Bill. Ego is a concept that defines a set of self referential thoughts. > > Phil > And as such...is nothing but smoke and mirrors. That which exists only as an adjective.....can never become a noun. (another good bumper sticker) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 In a message dated 2/26/2006 4:32:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: about I and the dew drop Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/25/2006 1:52:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " billrishel " <illusyn > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be > > human pretending to not > > > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, > > clearly so since it > > > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. > > It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > > > would define what is possible and what is not, > > thereby reinforcing the walls > > > of it's own self created prison. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. > > > > I have never actually seen one of those little > > critters. > > > > > > Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table > > so that we can all see exactly what one > > looks like? > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous > > eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of > > contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most > > certainly..it feels very big and powerful and > > yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. > > Patricia > > > > > I'm with toombaru on this one. > > If you pay careful attention to experiences > that you consider to be " of ego " ... > what tells you they are of ego? > > Does it take time for there to be > ego or can ego evidence itself in > an instant? That is a key question. > > If it takes time for there to be ego > then it means the presence of ego > is an *interpretation*. That doesn't > mean that ego is really there. It is > just an interpretation. > > > Bill > > > > I don't really think there's anyone on the other side of this discussion, > Bill. Ego is a concept that defines a set of self referential thoughts. > > Phil > And as such...is nothing but smoke and mirrors. That which exists only as an adjective.....can never become a noun. (another good bumper sticker) toombaru Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. Not to believe it as a fine concept, but to know it. 1) What is it that has this goal. 2) What is it that recognizes? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/26/2006 4:32:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/25/2006 1:52:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " billrishel " <illusyn@> > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > Nisargadatta , OConnor Patricia <gdtige@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the context of consciousness pretending to be > > > human pretending to not > > > > exist while conceptualizing that non existence, > > > clearly so since it > > > > experientially occurs, though it's a fools game. > > > It's best not to put God in a box. Ego > > > > would define what is possible and what is not, > > > thereby reinforcing the walls > > > > of it's own self created prison. > > > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ego........ego........eeeeeee..go......hummmm. > > > > > > I have never actually seen one of those little > > > critters. > > > > > > > > > Could you catch one.....and put it here on this table > > > so that we can all see exactly what one > > > looks like? > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > It has hairy legs, big teeth, huge appetite, globulous > > > eyes, brain the size of a pea, heart red and full of > > > contradicting desires, sex...male..yes yes most > > > certainly..it feels very big and powerful and > > > yet....how come you`ve never seen one.. > > > Patricia > > > > > > > > I'm with toombaru on this one. > > > > If you pay careful attention to experiences > > that you consider to be " of ego " ... > > what tells you they are of ego? > > > > Does it take time for there to be > > ego or can ego evidence itself in > > an instant? That is a key question. > > > > If it takes time for there to be ego > > then it means the presence of ego > > is an *interpretation*. That doesn't > > mean that ego is really there. It is > > just an interpretation. > > > > > > Bill > > > > > > > > I don't really think there's anyone on the other side of this discussion, > > Bill. Ego is a concept that defines a set of self referential thoughts. > > > > Phil > > > > > > And as such...is nothing but smoke and mirrors. > > That which exists only as an adjective.....can never become a noun. > > (another good bumper sticker) > > toombaru > > > > > Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. Who is there to have a goal? Not to believe it > as a fine concept, but to know it. Knowledge is built of concepts. All knowledge evaporates in the understanding. > > 1) What is it that has this goal. The sense of self. > 2) What is it that recognizes? That which remains when all concepts are gone. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 In a message dated 2/26/2006 8:47:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: about I and the dew drop > Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. T: Who is there to have a goal? P: The sense of self. Not to believe it > as a fine concept, but to know it. T: Knowledge is built of concepts. All knowledge evaporates in the understanding. P: By " knowing " I do not mean knowledge. It seems that I mean " understanding " in Toombaruese. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2006 Report Share Posted February 27, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/26/2006 8:47:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. > > T: Who is there to have a goal? > > P: The sense of self. The sense of self......is merely the sense of self. There is nothing there. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 In a message dated 2/27/2006 8:37:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, Nisargadatta writes: " toombaru2006 " <lastrain Re: about I and the dew drop Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/26/2006 8:47:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. > > T: Who is there to have a goal? > > P: The sense of self. The sense of self......is merely the sense of self. There is nothing there. toombaru Of course there is. There is a sense of self there. Tell me what's required in order for it to be a something to you, and then tell me why it matters if it qualifies as a something or a nothing in your conceptual thoughts. Is it a 'something' you wish to escape or is it a nothing? If you are dedicated to running from a nothing, perhaps nothings are something of importance to you and should not be dismissed as mere nothings. Phil Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2006 Report Share Posted February 28, 2006 Nisargadatta , ADHHUB wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/27/2006 8:37:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, > Nisargadatta writes: > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain > Re: about I and the dew drop > > Nisargadatta , ADHHUB@ wrote: > > > > > > In a message dated 2/26/2006 8:47:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > Nisargadatta writes: > > > > " toombaru2006 " <lastrain@> > > Re: about I and the dew drop > > > > > > > Yeah, and the 'goal' is to recognize that it isn't real. > > > > T: Who is there to have a goal? > > > > P: The sense of self. > > > The sense of self......is merely the sense of self. > There is nothing there. > > toombaru > > > > Of course there is. There is a sense of self there. It appears to be.....much as the water in a mirage appears to be there.....and in a way it is there......you just can't drink it. Tell me what's required > in order for it to be a something to you, Put it here on the table. >and then tell me why it matters if > it qualifies as a something or a nothing in your conceptual thoughts. The belief in its reality produces the suffering of which the Buddha speaks. All wars....all addictions.....all suffering emerge from a misunderstanding. Is it a > 'something' you wish to escape or is it a nothing? One can never escape from a prison that never was. One is the prison. If you are dedicated to > running from a nothing, perhaps nothings are something of importance to you and > should not be dismissed as mere nothings. Who are you talking too......Could it be the illusory self.........attempting to appear real? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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